Old 06-11-2019, 08:24 AM   #1
Ozman
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Default Reaper Chord Track (ARA Dreams?)

Looking at the date of the first project I posted on this, it's been almost 4 years since I made a working example of a real-time Reaper project containing a chord progression that forced MIDI and Audio tracks to conform.

Link to Project

I'm wondering why this isn't a big factor to anyone here. Many praise tools like RapidComposer and the like, but tools like that do not affect audio clips.

Cubase was the first with a Chord Track. Studio One even has its own Chord Track.
I bet both of them has had their issues, but they at least started with something.

Reaper Developers, Scriptors, etc. please start giving more attention to such workflows NATIVELY. The capabilities are already there. Just some love and team-work needs to be applied to the goal.

Look at how heavy MusoBob is going on his ReaTrack workflow, using tools like Band in a Box.

Like Really?

No one should have to make so many crazy 3rd party workflows for such common/modern composing features, that Reaper for the most part is already capable of performing.

I'm trying not to make this come off as a rant. But really, am I just wasting my time even bringing this up?

Last edited by Ozman; 12-13-2019 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:38 AM   #2
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There's a sizeable list of features that a majority of users seem to agree are no-brainers, like this, but which Cockos haven't shown any inclination to work on. Whether that's from a lack of interest, or maybe because of technical challenges with how the existing code works, nobody can say.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:01 AM   #3
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I agree - this would be very useful.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:59 AM   #4
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Tracktion has chord support. Cakewalk has no chord progression, but at least pitch markers (MIDI/audio able to follow it).

Is REAPER the only DAW which think that "pitch" is no so important for Music?
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:47 PM   #5
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+1

Would like to see something like this too.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:21 AM   #6
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I think that while Reaper does not have a native polyphonic pitch engine, there is no point in talking about something like a chord track of the Studio One4 level.
At the moment, the closest available way to change the notes inside a chord (I mean audio, not midi) is to use Melodyne. But this is still far from the full-fledged chord track.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:09 AM   #7
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Default Reaper cannot .... ?

Reaper has ARA, which may be the one of the best polyphonic pitch engines and is also able to detect a sample's key.
Anyway, there's also, most likely, some open source library for this stuff as well (if ARA doesn't easily communicate such data through its API).
Either way, if multiple DAWs have been able to do it for years, why cannot Reaper?

The test project I did which forced monophonic audio and midi notes to conform to a chord progression was done 4 years ago,
that's a whole college degree/military enlistment worth of time.

It's features like this that make digital ITB musicians feel a major lacking, when we know music theory and see tools floating around of various other DAWs
which cater to ITB composition. It's pretty much becoming a standard nowadays.

We stay hopeful with Reaper for one reason: Love.

While other DAWs tend to have a lot of features that I have access to (e.g. Studio One, Ableton, FL Studio, Sonar, Audition, etc), and know very well,
I prefer Reaper be my canvas.

I've been tweaking, making toolbars and menus, etc, doing the best I can do to adapt certain workflows
to this platform. But with this, there's just no way around it.

I need... We need the help of the Reaper Devs.

Last edited by Ozman; 06-13-2019 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:21 AM   #8
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I think you may just see a chord track in Reaper 6.
Getting midi to conform should not be a problem,
MIDI_SetScale was asked for as there is only a MIDI_GetScale this would enable snap all notes starting in selection (region) to snap to that Reascale, ReaTrak at the moment reads the region/chord name gets the notes for that chord from the internal chord library then converts it to a ReaScale value then uses mpl's Snap selected notes to scale, so that should be easy enough for a Reaper 6 chord track to do.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2129237#780
Monophonic audio should not be a problem, I suggested with ReaTune they could have an option to receive a send from a midi chord track to set the ReaTune notes, so having a chord track they could do that automatically or to whatever scale it is set to.

To conform polyphonic audio you would need Reaper to integrate Melodyne as Studio One does so those who have the polyphonic version of Melodyne will get this feature in Reaper.

With ReaTrak I was hoping there would be a community sharing of prerecorded instrument tracks in different key/chord progressions that are fitted automatically to the chord track rather than having to elastique them, but that may happen down the track if Reaper 6 has a chord track then things may take off as potential is seen.
I would have to modify ReaTrak from
reaper.EnumProjectMarkers( proj, idx )
to
reaper.EnumProjectChords( proj, idx )

reaper.SetProjectMarker
to
reaper.SetProjectChord
etc...

but I don't think it would have all the chords that ReaTrak has as Reaper's MusicXML import only imports basic chord names and misses a lot that MuseScore uses.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209607
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:48 PM   #9
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With the chords for Reaper 6 chord track you could have an editable GUI chord library that allows you to add aliases names to chords, add new chords and edit the chord's notes,
ReaTrak matches the region name by
if string.find(",Maj11,maj11,M11,Maj7(add11),M7(add11 ),", ","..chord..",", 1, true) then note2=4 note3=7 note4=11 note5=14 note6=17 end
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusoBob View Post
With the chords for Reaper 6 chord track you could have an editable GUI chord library that allows you to add aliases names to chords, add new chords and edit the chord's notes,
ReaTrak matches the region name by
if string.find(",Maj11,maj11,M11,Maj7(add11),M7(add11 ),", ","..chord..",", 1, true) then note2=4 note3=7 note4=11 note5=14 note6=17 end
WOW! thank MusoBob!
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:00 PM   #11
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Here's another vote for a chord track in Reaper.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:01 PM   #12
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Maybe, just maybe... it is good that Reaper devs haven't rushed to add a chord track. I'm now seeing that the ideal workflow for this has in a sense gone through its own evolution. Zplane has also released a software that I think is a step in the right direction. It detects the chord progression, like Studio One, but allows the user to then draw notes over the detected harmonics. Surely the ultimate power would be to have that ability in the midi editor for analyzed audio items. Detect their chords and send to a chord track as well as seeing their note harmonics (somewhat like melodyne'a blobs) watermarked in the background. Maybe, using future ARA features will allow for such.

Actually, MPL made a script that is somewhat relative.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=222825

Having something along the aforementioned lines integrated in the midi editor along would be perfect.

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Old 12-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozman View Post
Maybe, just maybe...
So Zplane DeCoda looks pretty cool, as it claims to be able to extract chords from polyphonic audio.

I believe BIAB is using some Zplane technology including Elastique Pro and Harmony. BIAB has the Audio Chord Wizard which also extracts chords from audio. I have to believe this is being done with some Zplane technology. I don't think this is available in the VST plugin version though.

BIAB has been around for a long time and is able to go one step further (like Studio One) - have the Style's MIDI and Realtracks obey the chords. I don't own BIAB, but I've read that those Realtracks parts are pitch and tempo modified by Elastique Pro, so I'm not sure if the parts can switch from a major to a minor chord.

Regarding Studio One, it comes with a monophonic version of Melodyne, so I doubt that it is Melodyne which is facilitating all of what their Chord Track and Harmonic Analysis are performing, however, it wouldn't surprise me if it was directly related to ARA2.

As mentioned, now that REAPER has ARA2 support, hopefully there is some technology out there which could enable the implementation of a Chord Track / Harmonic Analysis.
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Old 12-12-2019, 04:12 PM   #14
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With Biab the RealTracks have a lot of recorded material and lots of chords some have 12 keys. They are only transpose and stretch to give more variation there's no polyphonic changes, you can set them to no transpositions to get the original.
That's what ReaTrak does, it fits pre-recorded tracks to the chord track. It will also refit midi to the chord track.

I just purchased DeCoda as it looked good and the demo version didn't export
But it only does a few chord types.
You can't export the chords, it should a least export them as midi markers.
You have to manually fill the notes in in the piano roll and moving them has no effect on the audio.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:17 AM   #15
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ARA2 is that corpus callosum of modern digital music.
Now is the time for ingenuity in its usage.
Let's imagine.

Anyway, I'm going to just start posting imagery of what I'm seeing.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:29 AM   #16
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #17
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If you could GET/SET the fx parameter of ReaTune
reaper.TrackFX_GetParam(seltrack, 0, 12 )
reaper.TrackFX_SetParam( seltrack, 0, 12, 2 )

you could set it to snap to whatever notes you like on the fly,
the parameters can be set from the current chord/scale midi note track
or if that can't be done allow it to follow a send from a midi chord/scale track.

Would that help and be of use do you think ???

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Old 12-15-2019, 09:08 PM   #18
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I've already created a template (years ago) that can slave both midi and monophonic audio items to a chord progression.
(i.e. https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ht=chord+track)
It can be done.
However, it isn't an ideal approach to having a chord track.
Look at how Studio One does it (seemingly inspired by Cubase's Chord Track)... Definitely a step in the right direction.
But it can go even further...
Honestly, Chord Tracks and Arrangement Tracks are already a frontier of the past.
It's just a matter of whether such a feature set is adopted by a DAW.

Features such as:
1) Forcing other midi and audio items/tracks to snap to the chords of said track.
- Maybe using ARA is the only way to accomplish such with polyphonic material.
2) Chord editing features (like Studio One, Scaler, EZ Keys, etc.)
- extending chords (7, 9, 11, 13), augmentations, inversions, suspensions, substitutions, etc.
3) Snapping to chords in various modes (e.g. melodic, bass, etc.).
...

The previous post's image, was hinting at possible target features for when a Chord Track and/or other ARA integrations are one day implemented.
For example, that previous image's idea has already been partially implemented in Digital Performer and Logic Pro's Flex Pitch.
However, neither of them actually integrates such a tool within the Midi Editor itself.

My thing is, why have all this separation between audio and midi anyway? Why have multiple piano rolls (one for midi instruments,
and one when editing pitches of audio items), when all of it is representing the same thing? Synergy is what we need.

I know it's a bit of a tangent.
I guess there's a bit of frustration I have with the Audio and Midi barriers of today.
For example: Most samplers don't even attempt to detect pitch or create pitch maps of imported samples.
It's like VSTi developers are just trying to get some market share of what is trending (e.g. Wavetables and Romplers),
rather than looking at existing tech and improvising in their usage.

Maybe, I just need to chill out and just make some music... lol.

Last edited by Ozman; 12-15-2019 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:20 AM   #19
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Default Please!

+1 please.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:29 AM   #20
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Default Extract Audio to Chord Track

This is a free library (circa 2011) that can maybe be converted to LUA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff-V6ggv100
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Old 01-31-2020, 03:48 PM   #21
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Why not using sonic-annotator, the command line version of Sonic visualiser for such tasks, like chord detection from audio files.

Here two examples, tested on linux, elsewhere it should work similarly:
PHP Code:
sonic-annotator -d vamp:nnls-chroma:chordino:chordnotes -w csv test.mp3

sonic
-annotator -d vamp:nnls-chroma:chordino:simplechord -w csv test.mp3 
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:44 PM   #22
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I'm just working on getting that and beats into ReaTrak.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE View Post
Why not using sonic-annotator, the command line version of Sonic visualiser for such tasks, like chord detection from audio files.

Here two examples, tested on linux, elsewhere it should work similarly:
PHP Code:
sonic-annotator -d vamp:nnls-chroma:chordino:chordnotes -w csv test.mp3

sonic
-annotator -d vamp:nnls-chroma:chordino:simplechord -w csv test.mp3 
I want to use use a folder in the Reaper's Scripts folder for the vamp plugins, not sure how to set that ?
Quote:
Alternatively you can put vampy plugins somewhere else and export the environment variable VAMPY_EXTPATH e.g.:

export VAMPY_PATH="/your/vampy/plugin/directory"
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