Good Mac SFZ Player?

[Steve Folta]

I've been using Alchemy Player, and it works fine for some things, sometimes, but it has a tendency to abruptly end samples prematurely at times. That and the lack of support for one_shot make it useless for drum kits. Also, the one time I tried comparing some of the same samples played by Alchemy Free and ReaSamplOMatic5000, Alchemy seemed a bit lo-fi in comparison.

So what else is there? I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount if necessary (with the parameters for "reasonable" established by Reaper and Valhalla), but I'm not going to shell out the $400 for Kontakt.

Aria looks promising, but there's no demo available, nor does there even seem to be a way to purchase it by itself.

Dimension LE is priced right, but doesn't have a demo either. Has anyone here tried it?

[Seventh]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

You can load sf2 Soundfonts with Apple DLSMusicDevice or on Lion with the new Apple AUSampler

Apple AUSampler see here
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=85231

There you go.

[Morpion]

A good one here, and it's free. Was Windows only for ages but they released a Mac version a few months ago:

http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/

Also, if Alchemy player seems a bit "lofi", it's probably the import method you're using - I use the full version of Alchemy so I don' t know what restrictions you have, but there are 4 modes of importing from using a straight sample, to additive, granular or spectral import. Each one of them displays different characteristics and allows you to manipulate the sound in different ways. Not sure that the Player version gives you this scope of control but it's probably worth investigating. Alchemy is an insanely powerful tool.

[dumant]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

Dimension LE is priced right, but doesn't have a demo either. Has anyone here tried it?

Dimension LE works fine for me.

Bruno

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by Morpion

A good one here, and it's free. Was Windows only for ages but they released a Mac version a few months ago:

http://www.discodsp.com/highlife/

Looks like I'd downloaded and tried that before; I gave it another go. It's amazingly buggy. I tried several sample sets (SFZs, SF2s, GIGs), and it didn't play anything correctly. Sometimes it crashed, sometimes it produced no sound, sometimes it gave an endless series of dialog boxes, sometimes it had only two notes of polyphony, sometimes it played many notes at the wrong pitch.

But it worked for you? I'm on Snow Leopard.

Also, if Alchemy player seems a bit "lofi", it's probably the import method you're using - I use the full version of Alchemy so I don' t know what restrictions you have, but there are 4 modes of importing from using a straight sample, to additive, granular or spectral import. Each one of them displays different characteristics and allows you to manipulate the sound in different ways. Not sure that the Player version gives you this scope of control but it's probably worth investigating. Alchemy is an insanely powerful tool.

Trying the "Try Full Version" menu item... it seems "Granular" is the only one that plays the samples; "Additive" and "Spectral" are just synthesis. I guess that would explain the relative lack of fi (which is not bad, BTW, I never noticed it until I compared it to ReaSamplOMatic). For a drumkit, setting "Loop" to "None" was very helpful.

Thanks for the reply.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by Seventh

There you go.

SFZ, not SF2. Although the ability to play SF2's (and maybe GIG's) would definitely be a plus.

I've tried DLSMusicDevice for SF2's without much success. I'm on Snow Leopard so I don't have AUSampler; anyway I hear it's very buggy.

[axel_ef]

I've tried DLSMusicDevice for SF2's without much success. I'm on Snow Leopard so I don't have AUSampler; anyway I hear it's very buggy.

to see the soundfonts in DLSMusicDevice Menu the sf2 files must be in /Library/Audio/Sounds/Banks or in /Users/username/Library/Audio/Sounds/Banks

[axel_ef]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

I tried several sample sets (SFZs, SF2s, GIGs), and it didn't play anything correctly...
But it worked for you? I'm on Snow Leopard.

same problems on Lion , it does not play all notes, it can not handle programm change...

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by dumant

Dimension LE works fine for me.

Thanks. I bought it. It's much better at playing drumkits -- no truncated samples, cymbals ring out without having to hold down the key ("loop_mode=one_shot"), hihats close correctly ("group"/"off_by"). It seems to sound the same as Alchemy, but use much less CPU.

The only downside so far is that it tends to choke on Salamander Grand, sometimes crashing on load. Apparently it loads all samples into memory (instead of streaming them off disk), 'cause Reaper warns about memory use when loading SG (if it doesn't crash). Then I get stuttering when playing; perhaps it's swapping. I'm thinking that Alchemy probably also loads into memory, but tries to limit its own memory use, and that's why it truncates samples.

[Steve Folta]

Well, after getting hooked on Dimension LE for my SFZ needs, my MacBook died and its replacement runs Lion. Dimension LE -- along with all other Cakewalk products -- will not register under Lion. So after the 30-day grace period, I'll be boned unless they fix their registration process by then. And since Lion has been out since July and they haven't fixed it yet, it really looks like Cakewalk doesn't actually support Mac at all and we can't expect *anything* from them.

So now I have to ask again: Does anyone know of a good, reasonably-priced SFZ player for Mac?

[TimOBrien]

I've been waiting for the Dimension/Lion thing to settle too.
Cakewalk doesn't seem to have a clue.

There >is< a post on the Cakewalk forum board on how to install it manually,
but I'd like a legit solution.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2356680
(message #11)

I'd also like to find an SFZ solution....

[dumant]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

Well, after getting hooked on Dimension LE for my SFZ needs, my MacBook died and its replacement runs Lion. Dimension LE -- along with all other Cakewalk products -- will not register under Lion. So after the 30-day grace period, I'll be boned unless they fix their registration process by then. And since Lion has been out since July and they haven't fixed it yet, it really looks like Cakewalk doesn't actually support Mac at all and we can't expect *anything* from them.

So now I have to ask again: Does anyone know of a good, reasonably-priced SFZ player for Mac?

For some reason, my Dimension LE instance never got registered properly (I had numerous mail exchanges with the Cakewalk support on this topic). I always have the screen asking me to register. It's pretty annoying, but apparently, after several months of usage, it doesn't prevent it from working. So I live with it. I am on Snow Leopard, not Lion.

[Steve Folta]

I was able to take matters into my own hands -- somewhat to my own surprise, as I'm not a heavy enough math guy to do serious DSP. But I've built a simple SFZ player plugin that's good enough for my needs. I'd like to have some folks give it a try before I do an "official" realease. You can get the beta here:

http://github.com/stevefolta/SFZero/downloads

The most notable omission is that it doesn't have a filter. But it's open source, so anyone is welcome to work on a filter, better resampling, Windows build, etc.

[mrelwood]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

I was able to take matters into my own hands -- somewhat to my own surprise, as I'm not a heavy enough math guy to do serious DSP. But I've built a simple SFZ player plugin that's good enough for my needs. I'd like to have some folks give it a try before I do an "official" realease. You can get the beta here:

http://github.com/stevefolta/SFZero/downloads

The most notable omission is that it doesn't have a filter. But it's open source, so anyone is welcome to work on a filter, better resampling, Windows build, etc.

Am I correct in noticing that this can't open .sf2 files?

[TimOBrien]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

I was able to take matters into my own hands.....

Hey THANK YOU!

Only did a quick check but it WORKS. Keep on developing.

Nice low cpu use too. Everything ran under 1% even the 1.2gb Salamander Grand Piano I tried it out with.

I'll do some more extensive testing later and get started writing up some sfz files for my other instruments.....

Originally Posted by mrelwood

Am I correct in noticing that this can't open .sf2 files?

mrelwood, since you are on Lion I suggest you try out the built-in AUSampler. It does sf2's just fine.

(Of course if Steve would like to build in SF2 support into his sfz sampler I wouldn't complain....)

[mrelwood]

Originally Posted by TimOBrien

mrelwood, since you are on Lion I suggest you try out the built-in AUSampler.

It is too buggy and a bit clumsy (atleast in Reaper) to be used in a project. While it's a very clumsy solution, I still prefer the old DLSMusicDevice.

SFZero would be marvellous for me if it played SF2's, and played them correctly.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by TimOBrien

Nice low cpu use too. Everything ran under 1% even the 1.2gb Salamander Grand Piano I tried it out with.

That's great! Salamander chokes my computer; I need to install that extra RAM I bought.

I'll do some more extensive testing later and get started writing up some sfz files for my other instruments.....

I look forward to hearing how it works for you. I like to use scripts to build my SFZ files, particularly so I can automate dealing with velocity. Here's an example:

#!/usr/bin/python

def emit_group(out, key, num_vels, file_fmt, group = None, volume = None, pan = None):
  line = "<group> loop_mode=one_shot lokey={0} hikey={0} pitch_keytrack=0".format(key)
  if group:
    line += " group={0} off_by={0}".format(group)
  if volume:
    line += " volume={0}".format(volume)
  if pan:
    line += " pan={0}".format(pan)
  print >> out, line

  lovel = 0
  for i in range(1, num_vels + 1):
    hivel = int(127.0 * (float(i) / num_vels))
    filename = file_fmt.format(i)
    line = "<region> lovel={0} hivel={1} sample={2}".format(lovel, hivel, filename)
    print >> out, line
    lovel = hivel + 1

  print >> out


def emit_common_drums(out):
  hat_vol = -6.0
  emit_group(out, 36, 7, "Kick {0}.wav")
  emit_group(out, 42, 8, "CL Tip Hat {0}.wav", group = 1, volume = hat_vol)
  emit_group(out, 44, 3, "STMP Hat {0}.wav", group = 1, volume = hat_vol)
  emit_group(out, 46, 2, "OP SH Hat {0}.wav", group = 1, volume = hat_vol)
  # emit_group(out, 42, 6, "CL SH Hat {0}.wav", group = 1, volume = hat_vol)
  emit_group(out, 49, 4, "A CST crash SH {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = -30.0)
  emit_group(out, 51, 3, "SAB crash SH {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = 30.0)
  emit_group(out, 45, 4, "M Tom {0} L.wav", volume = -2.0)
  emit_group(out, 47, 4, "M Tom {0} R.wav", volume = -2.0)
  emit_group(out, 41, 4, "F Tom {0} L.wav", pan = 40.0)
  emit_group(out, 43, 4, "F Tom {0} R.wav", pan = 40.0)
  emit_group(out, 54, 4, "PL MID Tip ride {0}.wav", pan = 35.0)
  emit_group(out, 56, 3, "PL EDG Tip ride {0}.wav", pan = 35.0)
  emit_group(out, 58, 4, "PL BELL ride {0}.wav", pan = 35.0)
  emit_group(out, 61, 4, "PL crash {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = -30.)
  emit_group(out, 63, 2, "ZLC crash SH {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = 30.0)
  emit_group(out, 66, 2, "A CST crash Tip {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = 30.0)
  emit_group(out, 68, 2, "SAB crash Tip {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = 30.0)
  emit_group(out, 70, 2, "ZLC crash Tip {0}.wav", volume = -8.0, pan = 30.0)


out = open("Big Daddy SMT.sfz", 'w')
emit_common_drums(out)
emit_group(out, 38, 8, "SMT Snare {0}-L.wav")
emit_group(out, 40, 8, "SMT Snare {0}-R.wav")

out = open("Big Daddy Kent Snappy.sfz", 'w')
emit_common_drums(out)
emit_group(out, 38, 7, "Kent 1-1-Snappy\knt-{0}-L.wav", volume = 2.0)
emit_group(out, 40, 7, "Kent 1-1-Snappy\knt-{0}-R.wav", volume = 2.0)

mrelwood, since you are on Lion I suggest you try out the built-in AUSampler. It does sf2's just fine.

Thanks for that reminder. I'd heard of that but forgotten about it since I was forcibly upgraded to Lion. Tip: make sure to use that popup menu at the bottom of the file-open dialog.

(Of course if Steve would like to build in SF2 support into his sfz sampler I wouldn't complain....)

Not impossible, but one shouldn't hold one's breath...

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by mrelwood

SFZero would be marvellous for me if it played SF2's, and played them correctly.

What's your minimum standard of correctness?

[mrelwood]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

What's your minimum standard of correctness?

That all notes play in correct pitch, and that the notes don't end abruptly. Those are the major issues I have had with pretty much all sf2 capable synths on a Mac.

Also for some reason DSLMusicPlayer sounds better than bs-1 on some soundfonts. DSLMusicPlayer reverb was turned off, and bs-1 was all default.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by mrelwood

That all notes play in correct pitch, and that the notes don't end abruptly. Those are the major issues I have had with pretty much all sf2 capable synths on a Mac.

Could you post links to some SF2's that have had these problems?

[mrelwood]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

Could you post links to some SF2's that have had these problems?

I don't recall a specific font bearing the issues, since different synths had problems with different fonts, but I don't think for example Crystal played any of my fonts correctly.

[axel_ef]

here is a free sfz player

for WIN & OSX

http://www.zampler.de/

link for OSX download - http://www.zampler.de/upload/Zampler_OSX_20120510.zip

[mrelwood]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

here is a free sfz player

for WIN & OSX

http://www.zampler.de/

Doesn't open .SF2 files. All my soundfonts seem to be in .SF2 format.

Edit: Can't actually make it make any sound.

[axel_ef]

Originally Posted by mrelwood

Doesn't open .SF2 files. All my soundfonts seem to be in .SF2 format.

Edit: Can't actually make it make any sound.

It's a sfz Player, Steve asked for sfz. ("Good Mac SFZ Player?")

An SFZ file is a SoundFont Compressed file.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

here is a free sfz player

for WIN & OSX

http://www.zampler.de/

It doesn't even support <group>s! Plus no support for "loop_mode=one_shot" or "pitch_keytrack=0" or (probably) "off_by" means that this is another one that's no good for drumkits. Also, it sounds funny.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

An SFZ file is a SoundFont Compressed file.

Actually, no. SFZ is completely unrelated to SoundFonts/SF2s, other than having similar capabilities. Nor is it necessarily compressed -- OGG-compressed samples can be used, but uncompressed WAVs seem to be more common. You may be thinking of sfArk.

[Steve Folta]

I've been holding out on you guys. SFZero has had (partial) SF2 support for months, but I haven't released it until now. I got hung up on a problem with short loops. The "Clavinet" sound from "FluidR3 GM.sf2" is a good example, where the note pitches up slightly after the initial attack. I was able to fix it for that sound -- but only at the expense of other sounds that are more important to me. Finally I gave up.

"initialAttenuation" was another thing that gave me a lot of grief. The docs are very explicit that it is specifying the attenuation in centibels. But almost everyone seems to treat it as millibels instead. However, I have seen an SF2 or two that does seem to treat it as centibels. That's why the key-release noises in MT_Clavicembalo884.sf2 are so loud, for example.

I think there really is no way to play every SF2 the way it's meant to sound, at least not without providing a lot of tweaks that would be incomprehensible to the average user. And I have seen SF2's that are obviously doing things wrong (eg. values out of range).

Other changes include:

- Fixed "off_mode" handling.
- Fixed bugs in the decay phase of the EG.
- "loop_sustain" is now supported.
- More voices (needed as SF2s tend to consume a lot more voices than SFZs).
- You can now click on the file path (when it's shown) to see the version.
- You can now click on the sound-info area to see voice info.
- The keyboard is slightly smaller.

The new version is the 2012.09.09 beta at https://github.com/stevefolta/SFZero/downloads. I'm keeping the old beta there for now in case anyone needs to revert.

Have fun!

[axel_ef]

that's great!

with which program you created it?

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

with which program you created it?

Xcode, Vim, and the JUCE library.

[aviavi]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

The new version is the 2012.09.09 beta at https://github.com/stevefolta/SFZero/downloads. I'm keeping the old beta there for now in case anyone needs to revert.

Hmmm...I'm sorry but how does one install SFZero on OS X?

Thanks.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by aviavi

Hmmm...I'm sorry but how does one install SFZero on OS X?

There's a brief README file that tries to explain. Just move "SFZero.component" into your <home>/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components folder.

Unfortunately, Apple has decided to hide the "Library" folder in Lion and Mountain Lion. The easiest way to get to it is to hold down the Option key and then choose "Library" from the Finder's "Go" menu. You can also make it permanently visible if you're not afraid of the command line: http://osxdaily.com/2011/07/04/show-...mac-os-x-lion/.

Alternately, you could put SFZero.component in "/Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components". That's actually probably a better place for it, since anyone who logs in as another user on your computer will also be able to use it. But the Finder will make you type in your password to put it there. I don't know whether that "Library" folder is also hidden by default.

[aviavi]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

There's a brief README file that tries to explain. Just move "SFZero.component" into your <home>/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components folder.

Thanks Steve. For some reason when I downloaded the SFZero-beta-2012.09.09.zip file before, I wasn't seeing the .component file, only what looked like your source code files.

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by aviavi

Thanks Steve. For some reason when I downloaded the SFZero-beta-2012.09.09.zip file before, I wasn't seeing the .component file, only what looked like your source code files.

Ahh, you might've clicked on the "Download as zip" button (or "Download as tar.gz"), which would have given you the source code. I need to make a proper web page for this project...

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

I need to make a proper web page for this project...

And here it is:

http://stevefolta.github.com/SFZero/

[serr]

Originally Posted by Steve Folta

my MacBook died and its replacement runs Lion.

FYI: Your new Mac runs whatever OS you load on it (barring 9 and earlier of course). Just clone your old backup image over it if you want to stay with that.

[axel_ef]

Thank you for the source.
I made it for me a little bit smaller, I do not need all the extra informations.

[axel_ef]

@Steve Folta

I've sent you a PM (VST)

[Steve Folta]

Axel's VST build is now available via the web page.

[axel_ef]

I see that the VST is not working on OSX 10.6

here is a version for OSX 10.6

VST-Snow

[Steve Folta]

Originally Posted by axel_ef

I see that the VST is not working on OSX 10.6

here is a version for OSX 10.6

VST-Snow

That's also working fine on 10.7.4, does it work on 10.8 as well? I'd like to completely replace the other version if so.