v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

[kytdkut]

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

• * Includes feature branch: FX chain oversampling
• * Includes feature branch: render internals simplification/cleanup
• * Includes feature branch: user-defined action overhaul
• * Includes feature branch: media item normalization
• * Includes feature branch: media explorer toolbar
• * Includes feature branch: media item fixed lanes
• * Includes feature branch: JSFX internals overhaul/cleanup/modernization
• * Includes feature branch: Windows very long pathname support
• + CPU metering: option (FX chain and performance meter menus) to view CPU utilization as 100% = one core
• + FX: add per-FX chain oversampling option
• + ReaInsert: do not allow processing if in an oversampled FX chain
• + ReaScript: do not defer indefinitely when calling reaper.defer() with no parameters from Lua [t=261323]
• # Color theme: add 150% and 200% toolbar icons for media explorer
• # Preferences: correct help text for undo hints [t=261244]
• # ReaScript: rename NormalizeItem function to CalculateNormalization

This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

• + CPU metering: option (FX chain and performance meter menus) to view CPU utilization as 100% = one core
• + FX: add per-FX chain oversampling option

These are both very welcome additions here.

The "Display CPU utilization as 100% = one core" option also impacts the CPU display in the performance monitor. Is this intended? I think there's enough room in that window to always show both the maxed stressed core's CPU utilization and the current avg across the board.

Also, with the "100%=One Core" option being in the FX Chain menu, it makes me think it's a "per FX chain" option, like the oversampling, but the 100=one core option appears to be acting globally.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

These are both very welcome additions here.

The "Display CPU utilization as 100% = one core" option also impacts the CPU display in the performance monitor. Is this intended? I think there's enough room in that window to always show both the maxed stressed core's CPU utilization and the current avg across the board.

Also, with the "100%=One Core" option being in the FX Chain menu, it makes me think it's a "per FX chain" option, like the oversampling, but the 100=one core option appears to be acting globally.

It's a global option that affects both (in the FX menu for utility, I'll move it to the top of the menu with the other global options) -- btw in that mode it doesn't show "maxed stressed core's CPU utilization", it just shows the sum of all cores (so e.g. 400% if you have 4 CPU cores worth of CPU use).

[wol]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

• + FX: add per-FX chain oversampling option

but now we want per-FX oversampling option

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Justin

btw in that mode it doesn't show "maxed stressed core's CPU utilization", it just shows the sum of all cores (so e.g. 400% if you have 4 CPU cores worth of CPU use).

Justin, that sounds very confusing. What's the practical use for displaying it like that? I mean, I see the value in knowing when one core is maxed out because that will likely translate to glitches (e.g. show the max stressed core's CPU usage a la Studio One). I see the value in knowing a single FX chain's CPU usage in relation to a single core. I see the value in knowing how much CPU usage is happening across the entire project, so I I have a feel for how much headroom I have left on the project to keep adding things. But if I'm running a project that's not glitching out and the CPU usage was shown as 400%, I'd be very confused about how to interpret that number. Just my own take on it.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by wol

but now we want per-FX oversampling option

Shhh...not so fast...you'll scare off the squirrel.

But yeah, this!

Particularly because some plugins in an FX Chain outright break at some oversampling settings, while others may still sound good. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather still have it than not - but if we could turn this on for individual FX, it would solve for "man this distortion FX sounds great at 8x but that amp sim I'm feeding it into just doesn't work at all at that rate."

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Justin, that sounds very confusing. What's the practical use for displaying it like that? I mean, I see the value in knowing when one core is maxed out because that will likely translate to glitches (e.g. show the max stressed core's CPU usage a la Studio One).

The only number that matters is in that case is the RT CPU. CPU distribution between cores is dynamic, you can peg all of your cores and as long as the RT CPU doesn't get too high you'll be fine.

if I'm running a project that's not glitching out and the CPU usage was shown as 400%, I'd be very confused about how to interpret that number. Just my own take on it.

Well you should've thought about that before you turned the option on. FYI e.g. Activity Monitor on macOS also shows CPU use in this way.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by wol

but now we want per-FX oversampling option

we'll see but test this as-is for now

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Justin

The only number that matters is in that case is the RT CPU. CPU distribution between cores is dynamic, you can peg all of your cores and as long as the RT CPU doesn't get too high you'll be fine.

Based on that, I think it makes sense to always show the RT CPU in the performance meter window. Maybe just add the core when that option is enabled. Or always show both. The FX Chain could respect the preference.

Just my two cents. I'll stop beating this horse now...

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Based on that, I think it makes sense to always show the RT CPU in the performance meter window. Maybe just add the core when that option is enabled. Or always show both. The FX Chain could respect the preference.

Just my two cents. I'll stop beating this horse now...

The CPU meter does by default display the RT CPU. And the new mode is optional and off by default.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Justin

we'll see but test this as-is for now

It's hard to tell what's a bug or not with this. It seems to work, but I've seen some weird stuff just in some quick testing:

Overloud TH-U gets louder with 4x oversampling on.

The Softube amps completely crap out at 8x. They also appear to run at a fixed rate internally, as FX Chain oversampling doesn't seem to impact some audible aliasing at all - so that's a Softube thing that this won't impact.

The Audiority Big Goat sounds good at 4x, but when I turned on HQ, completely changed the sound in a something's broken kind of way.

...Note: I'm fine with all of this. It feels like sometimes you can blow past the maximum sample rate of a given plugin, and this remains true for when the plugin has its own oversampling scheme. So if you're running the FX Chain at 4x and the plugin has 2x oversampling, the plugin can up running at 8x but not be designed for sample rates that high.

Running things at 2x seems fine. 4x seems pretty safe, but can get weird if the plugin has optional oversampling. 8x is where things start getting weird.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

It's hard to tell what's a bug or not with this. It seems to work, but I've seen some weird stuff just in some quick testing:

Overloud TH-U gets louder with 4x oversampling on.

The Softube amps completely crap out at 8x. They also appear to run at a fixed rate internally, as FX Chain oversampling doesn't seem to impact some audible aliasing at all - so that's a Softube thing that this won't impact.

The Audiority Big Goat sounds good at 4x, but when I turned on HQ, completely changed the sound in a something's broken kind of way.

...Note: I'm fine with all of this. It feels like sometimes you can blow past the maximum sample rate of a given plugin, and this remains true for when the plugin has its own oversampling scheme. So if you're running the FX Chain at 4x and the plugin has 2x oversampling, the plugin can up running at 8x but not be designed for sample rates that high.

Running things at 2x seems fine. 4x seems pretty safe, but can get weird if the plugin has optional oversampling. 8x is where things start getting weird.

Yeah I'd imagine a lot of plug-ins aren't designed for rates more than 192k (8x gets you way past that)

[Funkybot]

Two suggestions:

1. I'd probably mention somewhere that enabling oversampling introduces latency. At least, I'm assuming that's intended.

2. I tend to float the plugin GUI's versus using the FX Chain window. Would be nice if there was a way to manage the oversampling on the FX chain or see the status of that on floated windows. For those, "wait, is it on" type of scenarios. Worst case, I could go back to the FX Chain window, but would be nice to save the trip.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Justin

Yeah I'd imagine a lot of plug-ins aren't designed for rates more than 192k (8x gets you way past that)

Yeah, I was wonder if a max of 8x makes sense. Even 4x as the max would be a-ok with me.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Yeah, I was wonder if a max of 8x makes sense. Even 4x as the max would be a-ok with me.

Might be fun to run/write some JSFX at 8x...

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

It's hard to tell what's a bug or not with this. It seems to work, but I've seen some weird stuff just in some quick testing:

Overloud TH-U gets louder with 4x oversampling on.

The Softube amps completely crap out at 8x. They also appear to run at a fixed rate internally, as FX Chain oversampling doesn't seem to impact some audible aliasing at all - so that's a Softube thing that this won't impact.

The Audiority Big Goat sounds good at 4x, but when I turned on HQ, completely changed the sound in a something's broken kind of way.

...Note: I'm fine with all of this. It feels like sometimes you can blow past the maximum sample rate of a given plugin, and this remains true for when the plugin has its own oversampling scheme. So if you're running the FX Chain at 4x and the plugin has 2x oversampling, the plugin can up running at 8x but not be designed for sample rates that high.

Running things at 2x seems fine. 4x seems pretty safe, but can get weird if the plugin has optional oversampling. 8x is where things start getting weird.

Some plugins oversample them selves internally, Softube does that I believe, prolly not a good idea to oversample those.

[X-Raym]

@mlprod
There is indeed some plugins that behaves weirdly at hugh sample rte like Ml SoundLab Roots guirar amp which has 6db boost at 96000 rather than 48000 (I reported this months ago, no fix).
So it seems that using plugin with oversampling parameter made by the plugin dev will always be better than using FX chain oversampling, cause if the FX we want oversampling for doesnt have it, high chance it behaves weirdly, unfortunately.
But maybe it can work nicely for some plugins (JS?)

[Tale]

Just to sure: The FX chain oversampling uses the playback/render resample mode, right?

[ilarios]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

• * Includes feature branch: FX chain oversampling

OH MY GOD, YES! This is why I love Reaper. This setting will be a godsend for those of us who run a mastering operation and are mostly ITB. We finally have a way to oversample Acustica plugins without third-party options.

Thank you devs!

[EvilDragon]

Per FX chain oversampling? That's nice. Synth1 gets a new lease of life, maybe. Haha!


May I ask what's the oversampling algo used?

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Some plugins oversample them selves internally, Softube does that I believe, prolly not a good idea to oversample those.

Is the behavior different than when running those plugins oversampled in Metaplugin or similar?

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by Justin

ah thanks, that means notarization failed (which usually means we have to login to apple's web site and agree to their updated terms and conditions, bleh)

Great, +dev1230 is notarized again.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Yeah, I was wonder if a max of 8x makes sense. Even 4x as the max would be a-ok with me.

Ah, why not go completely crazy? Oversampling to MHz? x256, anyone?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Per FX chain oversampling? That's nice. Synth1 gets a new lease of life, maybe. Haha!


May I ask what's the oversampling algo used?

Current project setting, for now

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Tale

Just to sure: The FX chain oversampling uses the playback/render resample mode, right?

Yes, it requires a playback stop/start to change

[PhelixK]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

• # Color theme: add 150% and 200% toolbar icons for media explorer

Great!

– A little nitpick:
At 100% the following icons do not include background fill (they do at 150% + 200%)
ex_autoplay
ex_start_on_bar
ex_preserve_pitch_tempo_matching


– More importantly (at least to me, trying to understand what is going on )

For the Explorer Toolbar, Reaper still doesn’t replace any custom icons when located inside a packed ThemeZip.
– Would be really nice to know if it’s not possible as with regular tb icons.

Here’s an example (portable install) showing factory icons in green color on the left, even though the exact same icons are customized in blue color and included with my theme. Replacement works as expected for regular toolbar icons, also when placed in explorer and no matter if the theme is packed or not.

Packed theme (@1x):


Unpacked (@1x):

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021

• + FX: add per-FX chain oversampling option

very interesting, will check it out.

– Wishing everyone a happy New REAPER Year!

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

[*]+ CPU metering: option (FX chain and performance meter menus) to view CPU utilization as 100% = one core

Very interesting.

I am wondering if it would be possible to show CPU utilization for every core individually? Perhaps not in the FX chain window but in performance meter?

For FX chain window I agree that it would be more useful to see the CPU utilization of the Core that is most stressed out, rather than a sum of values. Don't know what to do with the sum value.. like if I have 4 cores and use 200%CPU I am still good to go as only half of my core power is used? Isn't the overall CPU utilization more useful for that way of reading anyway?

Also I am wondering, would it be possible to show CPU utilization on the transport panel or otherwise at least in the menu bar (where audio device information, recording format etc are shown)? This would be handy so we don't have to open FX chains or the performance meter to quickly see CPU utilization.

Also I am a bit confused with the values. I tried for example using EW Opus sample library player, which shows "CPU" and playing a heavier patch. While Opus shows me values between 30% and 60% (usually it peaks when I play notes and decays while I hold them), Reaper's RT cpu shows me only about 20% all the time. The Core CPU shows about 90% and the non-core about 10%.
How do I have to interpret this? Is it likely the Opus shows me RT CPU as it spikes so quickly and then decays? If so, why isn't Reaper's meter keeping up? Or is Opus meter calculating incorrectly?

[souk21]

* Includes feature branch: FX chain oversampling

Wow! Thanks! I look forward to try that with some jsfx

[dub3000]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

It's hard to tell what's a bug or not with this. It seems to work, but I've seen some weird stuff just in some quick testing:

Overloud TH-U gets louder with 4x oversampling on.

The Softube amps completely crap out at 8x. They also appear to run at a fixed rate internally, as FX Chain oversampling doesn't seem to impact some audible aliasing at all - so that's a Softube thing that this won't impact.

The Audiority Big Goat sounds good at 4x, but when I turned on HQ, completely changed the sound in a something's broken kind of way.

...Note: I'm fine with all of this. It feels like sometimes you can blow past the maximum sample rate of a given plugin, and this remains true for when the plugin has its own oversampling scheme. So if you're running the FX Chain at 4x and the plugin has 2x oversampling, the plugin can up running at 8x but not be designed for sample rates that high.

Running things at 2x seems fine. 4x seems pretty safe, but can get weird if the plugin has optional oversampling. 8x is where things start getting weird.

...oops, i should probably fix my Floaty JS delay calc code at some point

[nofish]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021[*]# ReaScript: rename NormalizeItem function to CalculateNormalization

Just as idea, how about a similar additional* function which takes a MediaItem_Take* as argument (instead of PCM_source*), then position of peak, LUFS-M max etc. within project (timeline) could also be returned which also might be useful at times.
That's what e.g. my NF_AnalyzeTakeLoudness2 SWS exported function does (and as previously said, wouldn't mind deprecating, as it's simply a fact that you (Cockos) can provide better support for it than SWS guys doing it in spare time. ).

*I know taking a PCM_source* is also useful because it can also be used for not in-project files (using PCM_Source_CreateFromFile()) so that should also be kept imo.

[AtmanActive]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

v6.43+dev1230 - December 30 2021[*]+ FX: add per-FX chain oversampling option

That's great news!
While at it, can we get undersampling as well?
Like x0.5, x0.25 ...
This could be especially useful for network-streaming audio while mixing at high sampling rates, but still be able to stream at 48kHz via ReaStream, Audiomovers, Sonobus...
Thanks!