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01-05-2018, 01:56 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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v5.71pre8 - January 5 2018
v5.71pre8 - January 5 2018
+ Grid: add option to divide arrange view vertically every N measures
+ MIDI editor: fix CC lane drawing issues with looped items
+ MIDI: improve item peaks display
+ MIDI: improve pixel accuracy for MIDI peaks in the arrange view [t=201105]
+ MIDI: treat type 0 files with meta-events as multichannel files on import; if configured, prompt to import meta-events and channel MIDI as separate tracks [t=201510]
+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to toggle MIDI note selection and set time selection to selected notes
+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to toggle media item selection and set time selection to selected items
# MIDI: fix peaks view when automatic scaling is disabled [p=1934859]
# Sends: fix channel count increasing on sending track instead of receiving track [p=1935792]
Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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01-05-2018, 02:01 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Thanks for the MIDI tidying up!
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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01-05-2018, 02:08 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Vertical grid for MIDI editor, then?
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01-05-2018, 02:10 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
+ Grid: add option to divide arrange view vertically every N measures
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Devs, can you make it so that setting this parameter to 0 (or -1) retains the behaviour from pre7 (zoom dependant)? Would be nice
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01-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Devs, can you make it so that setting this parameter to 0 (or -1) retains the behaviour from pre7 (zoom dependant)? Would be nice
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+1. Would be really nice to have zoom dependent as well.
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01-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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#6
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Devs, can you make it so that setting this parameter to 0 (or -1) retains the behaviour from pre7 (zoom dependant)? Would be nice
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We had a lot of conversation about this and decided that we didn't like the zoom-dependent behavior, because the value of the markings as a navigational aid goes away if the meaning of the marks changes as you zoom.
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01-05-2018, 02:19 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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That will make the vertical shading useless when zoomed out a lot (indeed it actually disappears, which is kinda not nice/not expected). FL Studio for example retains that vertical shading regardless of zoom level...
Does it really hurt if it's just an option served via 0 or -1? Doesn't need a new checkbox or anything...
You don't have to appease me again, but it really was perfect in pre7, IMHO (and at least some other people agree too)...
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01-05-2018, 02:21 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Thanks for the MIDI tidying up!
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+ CC event data when height permits, pretty neat!
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01-05-2018, 02:22 PM
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#9
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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I think this:
is more informational than this:
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01-05-2018, 02:24 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I guess so, but that's because in your second example you're not following the main barlines (the long ones), which is how it was in pre7... So it's different from what I propose to happen when 0/-1 is entered. 0/-1 would follow just the long barlines, not small ones (in my suggestion), as it were previously.
EDIT: I don't feel about this feature it should just show what 1 or 2 or x measures is, vertical shading that is zoom dependant helps follow the timeline more easily (IMHO) and locate stuff faster. At least that was my experience with pre7/pre6 vertical shading...
Last edited by EvilDragon; 01-05-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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01-05-2018, 02:37 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,812
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i love you all! fantastic !
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01-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Toronto
Posts: 744
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The new midi look is great, much clearer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We had a lot of conversation about this and decided that we didn't like the zoom-dependent behavior, because the value of the markings as a navigational aid goes away if the meaning of the marks changes as you zoom.
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The benefit of zoom-dependent behavior becomes apparent when doing editing of really small items in arrange/midi (say, 1/128th note drum rolls over the course of a bar.) When I'm zoomed in that close, I don't need to know where the measures are: I need to know where the quarter notes are. It's useful for doing anything intricate
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01-05-2018, 02:49 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
+ Grid: add option to divide arrange view vertically every N measures
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Awesome, but agree with ED: zoom-dependent dividing with following the main barlines would be bloody cool!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
+ MIDI: improve item peaks display
+ MIDI: improve pixel accuracy for MIDI peaks in the arrange view [t=201105]
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Perfect!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to toggle MIDI note selection and set time selection to selected notes
+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to toggle media item selection and set time selection to selected items
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Wonderful! It works absolutely incredibly!
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01-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We had a lot of conversation about this and decided that we didn't like the zoom-dependent behavior, because the value of the markings as a navigational aid goes away if the meaning of the marks changes as you zoom.
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Good point, very true - now this feature gives you an additional clue how deep you are in a project. Thanks for that. This works quite good I have just one nitpick for people who sometimes edit video: please make it a project changeable setting because on frame based grid (post production) it looks just weird but most of the time (music production) I would use it.
Last edited by Luster; 01-05-2018 at 03:03 PM.
Reason: more words
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01-05-2018, 03:15 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 4,597
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I like this new grid better, but thats just me
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01-05-2018, 03:31 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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An option wouldn't hurt, especially since it doesn't take an additional checkbox or whatever by using 0 or -1 in that field
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01-05-2018, 03:32 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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It's not just you Sexan : me like it alot ; Cockos you Rock !!
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01-05-2018, 03:38 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Sorry to have not tested this with previous (pre)versions but i just noticed this:
- In MIDI Editor, I have set View: Toggle show note names to ON, meaning: note names are showed.
When i save the respective project as a Reaper template project and i open this template next time, i see that in MIDI Editor the note names are OFF, when inserting
notes in ME.
Expected behaviour would be that note names ON setting would be remembered in the saved project.
Is this maybe by design or o possible bug ?
Can anyone (OSX user) confirm this behaviour ?
Reaper OSX 5.71pre8-64bit
OSX 10.13.2
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01-05-2018, 03:40 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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is there some way to change the setting for the new grid by measures vertically from just one measure to some other number of measures?
say you wanted that not every measure but every 4 or 8 or 12 or 16???
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01-05-2018, 03:42 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Preferences > Appearance.
Look there, at the most lower setting.
"Divide arrange view vertically every x measures"
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01-05-2018, 03:46 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We had a lot of conversation about this and decided that we didn't like the zoom-dependent behavior, because the value of the markings as a navigational aid goes away if the meaning of the marks changes as you zoom.
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I haven't tried it yet but I love how zoom dependent lines use to work and would hate to see it go but maybe I'm misunderstanding.. I'll give it a go asap
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-05-2018, 03:51 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We had a lot of conversation about this...
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Is there any chance that we get the different shading for odd and even tracks additionally to the vertical shading? At least the Track divider line for even and odd tracks shouldn't work vertical when the option in preferences is ticked.
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01-05-2018, 03:56 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Is there any chance that we get the different shading for odd and even tracks additionally to the vertical shading?
Yeah ! I do miss that right now, would be excellent to have it back.
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01-05-2018, 04:12 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
+ MIDI: treat type 0 files with meta-events as multichannel files on import; if configured, prompt to import meta-events and channel MIDI as separate tracks[p=1935792
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Notation events for specific notes carry channel information, and I think they should be assigned to the same track as their notes, otherwise the notes lose their notation.
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01-05-2018, 04:44 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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the new MIDI peaks are looking great. but why velocity lines are not starting from the bottom of the item? It seems there is like a margin.
the new vertical divide looks great. now I will use it
tip: I've changed the default white color for time selection to a bit color tinted. This allows me to better distinguish the time selection with the new vertical divides. With white, it's a bit confusing.
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01-05-2018, 05:00 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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New midi is nice and works well with inline editing.
As for these "new fangled" arrange divisions.
I'm finding it a bit weird as I'm not sure there is a way to have both horizontal and vertical divisions as I'm use to having the track based horizontal ones and now I don't have them.. is it me missing a setting?
Also, you don't seem to be able to update the theme in realtime for these divisions like you can with most other colours. Could that be changed as I have to reload reaper to see the changes.
Think it's a good step overall though...
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-05-2018, 05:03 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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although I guess having both horizontal and vertical could look a bit crazy..
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-05-2018, 05:07 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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ok.. it does work to change it in real time but not how expected.. will keep experimenting
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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01-05-2018, 05:22 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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this line at the left edge of the item in the velocity lane.. doesn't seem right as I scroll?
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01-05-2018, 06:40 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think this:
is more informational than this:
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I agree with schwa on this one.**
** I'm a pre-release lurker and rarely test (except for reporting the occasional regression issue or maybe explicitly testing *cough* notation articulation mapping *cough*), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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01-05-2018, 07:36 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 615
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Regarding the zoom dependent shading:
I strongly agree with ED and others that the shading should be zoom dependent. The reason for this is the same as why the grid lines themselves are zoom dependent. If the shading is not made zoom dependent, then at particular zooms I would argue that it loses informational value because the eye begins to read it as a uniform texture rather than blocks that can be visually parsed to show larger structures. Zoomed out far enough, as we can see the shading is lost completely.
While I agree that zoom-independence can be more visually stable and less disorienting, I think that some of the points presented to support that route are based on how the feature looks in isolation, and not in context. In a working use-case, the project will be full of media items, which will provide the user the needed visual references to anchor the sense of location and scale in the project.
The grid shading is most useful if it can be used to make sense of structures and patterns in time at more than one level, just like the grid lines and the timeline measure labels. In fact, I think for most cases the grid shading simply matching the primary gridline label visibility would be a good implementation as far as zoom dependence (as ED said). Currently the gridline labels change from every measure, to every other measure, to every four measures, then to every eight, sixteen, thirty-two, sixty-four and so on. People have never found the way that the gridline labels change to be disorienting.
Edit: to further add to the discussion, I don't think that the even/odd track number shading was ever very useful. Think about what information it's actually conveying... couldn't you deduce whether a track is even or odd by looking at the number? If you hide a track, then you can tell a track is hidden by whether the background does not alternate in places, but this is only true if you just hide one track, or three etc. If you hide two tracks or any other even number of adjacent tracks, then again the patterning looks the same as if you had not, and you are again relying on the track numbers to see whether there are hidden tracks. I've never found it to be necessary at all personally and I would also argue having gridline shading and track even/odd shading simultaneously would be too much altogether.
Last edited by Commala; 01-05-2018 at 07:46 PM.
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01-05-2018, 07:44 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan
I like this new grid better, but thats just me
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+1, thanks for the 'every N measures' option
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01-05-2018, 09:05 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 447
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+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to toggle media item selection and set time selection to selected items
This would be perfect if it also selected all the other items in the time selection.
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01-05-2018, 09:24 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indonesia Raya
Posts: 684
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toolbar resize handle scaling on HiDPI/Retina themes
Default 5.0
Default 5.0_hidpi @2x scale
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01-06-2018, 12:23 AM
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 554
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Is it possible to add dotted lines for regions/markers, the same way, as for grid lines, so they won't be displayed so obviously?
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01-06-2018, 01:16 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala
Regarding the zoom dependent shading:
I strongly agree with ED and others that the shading should be zoom dependent. The reason for this is the same as why the grid lines themselves are zoom dependent. If the shading is not made zoom dependent, then at particular zooms I would argue that it loses informational value because the eye begins to read it as a uniform texture rather than blocks that can be visually parsed to show larger structures. Zoomed out far enough, as we can see the shading is lost completely.
While I agree that zoom-independence can be more visually stable and less disorienting, I think that some of the points presented to support that route are based on how the feature looks in isolation, and not in context. In a working use-case, the project will be full of media items, which will provide the user the needed visual references to anchor the sense of location and scale in the project.
The grid shading is most useful if it can be used to make sense of structures and patterns in time at more than one level, just like the grid lines and the timeline measure labels. In fact, I think for most cases the grid shading simply matching the primary gridline label visibility would be a good implementation as far as zoom dependence (as ED said). Currently the gridline labels change from every measure, to every other measure, to every four measures, then to every eight, sixteen, thirty-two, sixty-four and so on. People have never found the way that the gridline labels change to be disorienting.
Edit: to further add to the discussion, I don't think that the even/odd track number shading was ever very useful. Think about what information it's actually conveying... couldn't you deduce whether a track is even or odd by looking at the number? If you hide a track, then you can tell a track is hidden by whether the background does not alternate in places, but this is only true if you just hide one track, or three etc. If you hide two tracks or any other even number of adjacent tracks, then again the patterning looks the same as if you had not, and you are again relying on the track numbers to see whether there are hidden tracks. I've never found it to be necessary at all personally and I would also argue having gridline shading and track even/odd shading simultaneously would be too much altogether.
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Thanks, Commala! You're expressing it better than I could! Hopefully pre9 will have that 0/-1 option for zoom-dependant shading
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01-06-2018, 01:30 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers
although I guess having both horizontal and vertical could look a bit crazy..
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No. Why? These colours just should be different. Example:
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01-06-2018, 01:57 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 642
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Regarding the zoom dependent vertical shading again:
How it was implemented in the pre before it was very nervous for sure, it switched every second zoom step. Now that it's fixed I realized that it may not need that much different "levels" when zoom dependent. That would counter the argument that it's confusing.
Again I want to raise the idea that when zoom dependent vertical shading is still a thing we see again, could it be not only a change in the count of measures shaded but also a change in intensity of shading (more zooming in leads to darker shading e.g.)?
I believe something like 3 levels of different N measures shading should do it.
Last edited by Luster; 01-06-2018 at 02:00 AM.
Reason: typo and wording
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01-06-2018, 01:59 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 648
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strange...
In my opinion option vertical and horizontal aid combined would be great.
I agree with EvilDragon, I am after idea to zoom dependent option.
So for me it should be like:
1 2 3 4 ; 9 13 17 21 ; 1 33 65 97 ...etc...
__________________
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude.
It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Corinthians 13:4-6
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01-06-2018, 02:03 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luster
Regarding the zoom dependent vertical shading again:
How it was implemented in the pre before it was very nervous for sure, it switched every second zoom step. Now that it's fixed I realized that it may not need that much different "levels" when zoom dependent. That would counter the argument that it's confusing.
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Pre7 was perfect for me. I can see how it would be nervous for some, and for them having the fixed measures option probably makes more sense. For zoom-dependant, it only makes sense to follow the big, long barlines for this. Anything else and it's missing the point (why switch shading on a bar which is NOT shown with a number and the big barline on the ruler? To me that is not logical at all).
Having multiple levels of shading would be crazy.
Last edited by EvilDragon; 01-06-2018 at 02:22 AM.
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