Old 10-15-2019, 03:44 AM   #1
jelloman
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Default My mix was featured in Joe Gilder's latest video...

..anonymously, but it was me...



Here's a link to the file he was hearing...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/22fodh39hn...MITED.wav?dl=0

If anyone has time, can you give it a listen and tell me what you think? Do you agree that it was too dark?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:41 AM   #2
grinder
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I would agree
I myself have early powered event monitors and in my room
in order to get a good mix I have learnt that in my room I
have to have my bass line only just able to be heard in order to
get a good mix. I guess most people would have a problem with frequencies
in all sorts of rooms.
I got most of my improvements from using Izotopes "Tonal Balance" and
"Harbal" they both taught me to listen to my mixes with my room and monitors
in mind not only with what my imagination was saying.
Definitely a dark mix.

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Old 10-15-2019, 12:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jelloman View Post

If anyone has time, can you give it a listen and tell me what you think? Do you agree that it was too dark?
I thought the drums actually sounded really good, but everything else was too dark.

Assuming that Joe was correct about the bright speakers, it might be an interesting idea to mix the drums on those then switch to different speakers/headphones for the rest of the mix.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:56 PM   #4
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Yeah, I agree with what he said.

Weirdly, it sounded even darker on the video... could well be my brain playing tricks on me though!

It has a "wrapped in cotton wool" kinda feel. I actually think everything competing in the low mids is a bigger issue, adding a touch of top end on the guitar and vocal isn't a big thing.

It's really close to sounding very good, but it's kind of like listening to a great mix playing in the room next door.
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJSE2 View Post
I thought the drums actually sounded really good, but everything else was too dark.

Assuming that Joe was correct about the bright speakers, it might be an interesting idea to mix the drums on those then switch to different speakers/headphones for the rest of the mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Yeah, I agree with what he said.

Weirdly, it sounded even darker on the video... could well be my brain playing tricks on me though!

It has a "wrapped in cotton wool" kinda feel. I actually think everything competing in the low mids is a bigger issue, adding a touch of top end on the guitar and vocal isn't a big thing.

It's really close to sounding very good, but it's kind of like listening to a great mix playing in the room next door.
I use a pair of Yamaha HS5s with a Behringer subwoofer, and my studio is in my bedroom...before I added the subwoofer I split my time 50/50 between the speakers and my Sennheiser Massrop H6xx headphones, but now tend to work almost exclusively through the speakers...despite the "darkness" I know my mixes are much better balanced in the low end than they were previously...

One of the previous monthly Gilder VIPer challenges was a "console mix" using only 3 plugins, 1 EQ, 1 compressor, and 1 fx...in the critique of that challenge i was called out for a "too bright" mix with too little lows and low mids (no "punch")...I think I may be over-compensating as a result...

I do have to say that I was extremely happy with this mix...I listened to it on a couple different systems and felt it was some of my best work...so this critique is really very frustrating...

Thanks for taking the time grinder, JayJSE2, and Judders...
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:36 AM   #6
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Like I said, it's SO close to being great.

The problem for me in particular is that the guitar and piano are not distinguishable a lot of the time. They merge together in the low mids. You need that bit more upper mids or top end (or take away low mids from one of them) to allow the transients to pop through and make them a bit more distinct.

Take my advice for what it's worth though - I'm not saying I could do better!

I could live with the drums and vocal as they are.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:38 AM   #7
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To me, Joe's mixes always sound on the darker and warmer side of what I'd consider flat. You mix of his song sounds darker yet, so something you could try is to come back to your mix and intentionally try to balance it slightly brighter than Joe's while still sounding musical to you. Then reflect on what you adjusted compared to your current mix.

Other thing is, HD6** do sound like they have a bit of a presence area dip (darker), and slight midrange bump (warmer). How do you feel your mix compares to the balance of other music on those?
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:43 PM   #8
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This is quite a good mix. Overall it doesn't really sound dark to me. The cymbals might lack a little sizzle, but I don't know how the source recording sounded - perhaps the highs are missing there. You really nailed the low end, which is usually what I struggle with.

One thing that nobody else has mentioned is that many of listeners in the general public will be using iphone earbuds. They tend to make mixes sound dark and muddy, so the high end will tend to be further dulled when these folks listen to the recording. For this reason I think that it is always a good idea to do a final check to make sure that a mix translates well to iphone earbuds. There will be sweet spot where the mix will sound good through your studio monitors and through the iphone earbuds. And you will be pretty much guaranteed that the mix will not sound dull on anybody's studio monitors if it sounds good on the earbuds.

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Old 10-17-2019, 02:59 PM   #9
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And here's the other part of my mix critique turned into a YouTube video...



I guess I should now ask your opinions on the vocal compression...


...I wonder if I should ask for a royalty on these 2 video ;-)
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Old 10-17-2019, 04:29 PM   #10
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Are you learning more than you are giving?
Sometimes it is better to be circumspect

Personally I would treat this as an experience a good one
Your mix could be a lot better it could have that x factor
this may let you know or set you on the path to know how to do it all
for free!

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Old 10-18-2019, 01:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
Are you learning more than you are giving?
Sometimes it is better to be circumspect

Personally I would treat this as an experience a good one
Your mix could be a lot better it could have that x factor
this may let you know or set you on the path to know how to do it all
for free!

Grinder
^^^ Good advice.

Of course, you could always start your own YouTube channel featuring clips of videos that Joe Gilder made about your mixes!
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Of course, you could always start your own YouTube channel featuring clips of videos that Joe Gilder made about your mixes!
Now, that's the best idea I've ever heard!

...there would only be one video on it, though...
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny Tortoise View Post
To me, Joe's mixes always sound on the darker and warmer side of what I'd consider flat. You mix of his song sounds darker yet, so something you could try is to come back to your mix and intentionally try to balance it slightly brighter than Joe's while still sounding musical to you. Then reflect on what you adjusted compared to your current mix.

Other thing is, HD6** do sound like they have a bit of a presence area dip (darker), and slight midrange bump (warmer). How do you feel your mix compares to the balance of other music on those?
Yeah, so I did what you suggested...I went back to my session and rolled it all the way back to the basic tracks and started over, approaching it from as objective a viewpoint as possible, and remixed it...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ell0rfyjtp...4_320.mp3?dl=0
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:18 PM   #14
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Vast improvements to my ears:
keys and guitar details more present.
Snare top end lifted and more life in the cymbals/hats.
Lots of detail that wasn't present in the Gilder "dark mix". Sounding very clear and I'm listening on nasty ipod earbuds just to really push it.
A/B against some Michael Buble and Josh Groban. The balance stands up although these guys seem to have more ambience in the overall mix and certainly wetter snare sounds.
Listen to me though! I'm shooting for the skills to get as good as you.
I just saw that Joe Gilder Youtube video before finding this forum thread, so thought I would jump in.
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 PM   #15
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Yeah, the separation of those instruments is a huge improvement.

The bass drum is very big and heavy for this kind of song, the drums in general could perhaps do with taking a bit more of a back seat. The tone of the snare is better though.

Vocal is a bit sizzly and sibilant, though perhaps not out of place with modern productions.
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