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Old 01-16-2022, 07:52 PM   #1
iharpyou
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Default How do you judge your recording is OK?

OK This is my problem
I record my voice , Guitar and harmonica, Then I play around with Reverb, delay , compression and finally I say to myself Yes this seems to be OK

However I wonder that if it is really ok ! or it might be my wrong perception.
Can I trust my ears ? Or perhaps I am in different mood now and It might be just my own thinking.

Now I wonder how you guys make your final decision ? Do you just have to trust your own ears? Do you take your time after finishing take a day and listen to it another day again ? Do you let some body else listen to it and ask for their idea?

Working on plugins to determine what is ok or not In some cases is very difficult
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Old 01-16-2022, 09:00 PM   #2
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LOL, it's never OK if I'm the judge. But to gain some objectivity, put the project aside for a while and then see what you think. Compare it to other recordings that do sound OK to you, while you mix. "OK" is purely relative so you need a reference point.

In the end you have to trust your ears or you will be going around in circles until you just give up. But yea ask people you trust and decide for yourself if it's worth changing. They will hear things with no preconception of what it's supposed to sound like (whereas you might hear it more like the way you intended it to be) and it will help you gauge whether you achieved your goals.

There's no such thing as "wrong perception," unless your ears don't work. But there is a lot of psychology to audio and you have to be aware of the ways your ears will try to fool you. Volume is the biggest offender here. You will not be able to tell if one sound is better than the other if they are not the same volume. And maybe I lied a little bit; when you mix at louder volumes it can actually wear your ears out and cause you to hear things very differently than you will the next day.

Also, work fast. You will lose objectivity the more you hear something.

You know, I don't think I've said anything that wasn't better said in the "why do your recordings sound like ass?" thread. Highly recommended: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:12 AM   #3
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I agree about working fast, although I also think it's an iterative process. I might work on a simple mix for several months, giving it 3-4 days or more between listens. Each time I listen fresh I hear something obvious that I should fix or adjust. Once it starts sounding good after a 3-4 day break I can call it done.

Sending it to other people to listen to is a good idea but there are two potential pitfalls:

1. Sending it to friends is unlikely to result in objective feedback.
2. Sending it to audio engineers or sharing it on forums populated by engineers is likely to drive you crazy: you'll often get conflicting and overly perfectionist advice that will make you constantly second-guess yourself. Remember that audio engineers are not (in most cases) the intended audience for your music. Trying to please your peers before your potential fans is a mistake.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:29 AM   #4
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Also, work fast. You will lose objectivity the more you hear something.
You mean do not not be so perfectionist and finish it as soon as possible right?
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Old 01-17-2022, 04:30 AM   #5
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Put the songs with 5 other songs from other artists that you think are great from the same genre. Play them back to back and skip around. If your fits in there you are good.
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Old 01-17-2022, 04:41 AM   #6
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Wise and informed advice already. On a more philosophical level here's a quote from Pablo Picasso:

"To finish it means to be through with it, to kill it, to rid it of its soul, to give it its final blow, the coup de grace for the painter as well as for the picture."

That seems to me to imply that there is always something that can be changed, added or emphasised etc. at any one time though it may be "good" enough to exhibit (or distribute). Leaving all the technical and performance issues aside then, the question is very simple but also very very difficult: what exactly am I trying say here? what do I want my music to express?

One thing though - as people like Dylan and every jazz musician ever has shown, it may well be worth revisiting material long after its first composition...
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iharpyou View Post
Do you just have to trust your own ears? Do you take your time after finishing take a day and listen to it another day again ? Do you let some body else listen to it and ask for their idea?

Working on plugins to determine what is ok or not In some cases is very difficult
Yes, all good suggestions. Plugins are not much use, other than establishing relative loudness, which can be very useful.

Consider this. Train yourself to always mix to a specific RMS or LUFS, like aim at -20dB FS LUFS for example. Now, pull in some professional tracks and normalize them to the same loudness level. Now you will be able to quickly evaluate your mix against other mixes, AT THE SAME LEVEL OF LOUDNESS. This is very important, since human sensitivity to different frequencies, transients, etc, can potentially vary wildly with sound pressure levels.

It will take some time to make this habitual, but I can almost guarantee it will help you evaluate your own work.

Best of luck!
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Put the songs with 5 other songs from other artists that you think are great from the same genre. Play them back to back and skip around. If your fits in there you are good.
Thanks but where to get those songs ? I suppose youtube is not a good choice because when it is uploaded in youtube usually sound change.

Where do I search and download songs to compare with my song
Specially I suppose they should not be mp3 right?
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:15 AM   #9
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A big thumbs up to the recommendation for the "why do your recordings sound like ass?" thread from Fox above. I have been recording and mixing for over 40 years and found a huge amount of useful information I had never considered before.

And all the above threads are spot on. My only addition is to work fast, move on, revisit and revise as necessary and don't stop. Practice makes (almost) perfect.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iharpyou View Post
You mean do not not be so perfectionist and finish it as soon as possible right?
I want to say 'yes,' but it feels hypocritical. I'm such a perfectionist that I've literally never finished anything and I've started more projects (musical and otherwise) than I can count. Don't be like me. I don't recommend it.

To quote yep (the author of the thread I mentioned), "finished is better than perfect." It's a good mantra go by, even if I can't follow it myself.

But more to the point, don't belabor yourself over little things (and mixing is all little things). Trust your ears, make a decision and move on. Especially if you start to amass many plugins, there is no end to how much time you can waste tweaking this or that. In my experience this leads to lateral changes more often than actual improvements.

There was some YouTube guy with sage advice about plugins. Basically he said that you should pick one plugin of each type and just always use those for every mix.

Don't wonder if another plugin might be better, just learn to get the sounds you want with a minimal toolset. I think it's a really good way to hone your skills; by limiting yourself and thus avoiding certain rabbit holes. You'll also master those tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggrey View Post
A big thumbs up to the recommendation for the "why do your recordings sound like ass?" thread from Fox above. I have been recording and mixing for over 40 years and found a huge amount of useful information I had never considered before.
Thanks, yea the guy seriously needs to write a book. Both entertaining and informative. Perhaps he's too humble tho.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iharpyou View Post
Thanks but where to get those songs ? I suppose youtube is not a good choice because when it is uploaded in youtube usually sound change.

Where do I search and download songs to compare with my song
Specially I suppose they should not be mp3 right?
Don't worry about those things because it's still a good place to start if it's the most available source. It's a funny thing how even though a mix has been noticeably albeit slightly degraded by compressed format conversions, you can still listen to it and learn how the sonic pieces (and the instrument and voc pieces, even more important) fit together in a professional sounding way. Take a good recording and there's a lot to learn from it, no matter if it's not the most uncompromised version of it.

Another thing is: don't keep listening to your results in the same place you're working on them. Listen in the car, in the other room, anywhere else, as well. Sometimes when you mix in your room you take it in the car, where you can compare it to what's coming over the radio so even if your car isn't an audiophile's dream if you can enjoy radio music in it, comparing your mix to those can be every educational.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:58 PM   #12
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Thank you all. I am on my way now to create my first recordings
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Thanks but where to get those songs ? I suppose youtube is not a good choice because when it is uploaded in youtube usually sound change.

Where do I search and download songs to compare with my song
Specially I suppose they should not be mp3 right?
This will also be good advice for a starting point with monitor volume to mix at.

First, understand that there are versions of albums sold that have the volume level boosted significantly! You may have heard the term "volume war" CD? You would end up pretty confused if you set your listening volume for a volume war loud CD and then tried to start mixing at that monitor level. You would have red lights going off before you even had your first track pushed up loud enough!

Grab some normal level music if you don't have any for reference. (And to have a few of your favorite albums in master quality! Why not, right?)

Some numbers:
"Normal" levels are -16 LUFS to -13 LUFS (Louder approaches zero.)
Volume war CDs are -10 LUFS to -7 LUFS! These mixes get blasted with brick wall limiting after the fact to do this. They DO sound worse for it! This is often accompanied by a big treble boost. They sound worse again for that too!

If you were creating a thumbnail image, you would draw it full size first and then shrink it down to thumbnail size last. Same deal with volume war "mastering". You still mix at normal levels. You ruin the thing as a last step.

24 bit downloads and bluray discs are often a calling card for normal level music releases. CD is often a calling card for volume war level versions. Mp3s are usually made from the CD version. You'll find examples of the opposite but that's the usual pattern.

Working at "normal" monitoring levels, your ears will tell you when something is too loud before the red lights go off. You can get fancy with monitor level calibrations but just grabbing some music releases that aren't volume war hash is a great start!

And yes, most streaming and Youtube audio comes from volume war CD sources! That shrill nastiness is more from the mastering faux pas than any streaming compression.
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Old 01-18-2022, 12:16 AM   #14
iharpyou
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Originally Posted by serr View Post
This will also be good advice for a starting point with monitor volume to mix at.

First, understand that there are versions of albums sold that have the volume level boosted significantly! You may have heard the term "volume war" CD? You would end up pretty confused if you set your listening volume for a volume war loud CD and then tried to start mixing at that monitor level. You would have red lights going off before you even had your first track pushed up loud enough!

Grab some normal level music if you don't have any for reference. (And to have a few of your favorite albums in master quality! Why not, right?)

Some numbers:
"Normal" levels are -16 LUFS to -13 LUFS (Louder approaches zero.)
Volume war CDs are -10 LUFS to -7 LUFS! These mixes get blasted with brick wall limiting after the fact to do this. They DO sound worse for it! This is often accompanied by a big treble boost. They sound worse again for that too!

If you were creating a thumbnail image, you would draw it full size first and then shrink it down to thumbnail size last. Same deal with volume war "mastering". You still mix at normal levels. You ruin the thing as a last step.

24 bit downloads and bluray discs are often a calling card for normal level music releases. CD is often a calling card for volume war level versions. Mp3s are usually made from the CD version. You'll find examples of the opposite but that's the usual pattern.

Working at "normal" monitoring levels, your ears will tell you when something is too loud before the red lights go off. You can get fancy with monitor level calibrations but just grabbing some music releases that aren't volume war hash is a great start!

And yes, most streaming and Youtube audio comes from volume war CD sources! That shrill nastiness is more from the mastering faux pas than any streaming compression.
Thanks

Is this acceptable?

My background noise

https://i.imgur.com/pno0nDT.png

My music

https://i.imgur.com/E8MiVxK.png
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Old 01-18-2022, 05:29 AM   #15
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Thanks but where to get those songs ? I suppose youtube is not a good choice because when it is uploaded in youtube usually sound change.

Where do I search and download songs to compare with my song
Specially I suppose they should not be mp3 right?
Rip some cds
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Old 01-18-2022, 07:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by iharpyou View Post
OK This is my problem
I record my voice , Guitar and harmonica, Then I play around with Reverb, delay , compression and finally I say to myself Yes this seems to be OK

However I wonder that if it is really ok ! or it might be my wrong perception.
Can I trust my ears ? Or perhaps I am in different mood now and It might be just my own thinking.

Now I wonder how you guys make your final decision ? Do you just have to trust your own ears? Do you take your time after finishing take a day and listen to it another day again ? Do you let some body else listen to it and ask for their idea?

Working on plugins to determine what is ok or not In some cases is very difficult
Short answer: experience. Lots of gigs and sessions.
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Old 01-24-2022, 09:01 AM   #17
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Just my 2 cents:

Try not to mix for more than 15-30 minutes at a time. Go to the next song after spending 15-30 minutes on one song. Take long breaks between songs. Wait till tomorrow to tackle the mix again.

The faster you can mix, the better it sounds.

Don’t worry about loudness. Loudness should be a mastering step, not a mixing step.
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Old 01-24-2022, 09:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Put the songs with 5 other songs from other artists that you think are great from the same genre. Play them back to back and skip around. If your fits in there you are good.
Pros do this and it's just more-much about "keeping your ears calibrated" than trying to "exactly match the sound".

It's easy to get carried away with effects... You add a little reverb and it sounds good, then you get used to it and you add a little more, then a little more. Then you listen the next day and it doesn't sound so good. The same can happen with any effect. The reference recordings should help with that.

Another big advantage the pros have is multiple experts... You've got the artist, the producer, the mixing engineer and the mastering engineer. Oh, they also have schedules and a deadline and when time runs out, "it's done"!
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Old 01-24-2022, 09:37 AM   #19
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Just my 2 cents:
Don’t worry about loudness. Loudness should be a mastering step, not a mixing step.
Not really.
Because the more dense a mix gets the more it will get distorted at final mastering comp\limit\clip. Again it will be more or less genre specific.

Of course it all starts with proper recording levels.
This will make pre-mixing easier.
The mix will be half way there, half way a creative task.
Then if all is great the mastering will be just a couple to a few dBs up and some EQ balance, maybe limiting a dB of TruePeak or so.

Many people do too much FX in the mixing process. Because they have not done a proper prep. work for it.
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