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Old 11-11-2022, 02:20 AM   #1
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Default Dexed MIDI learn not working in Linux? (SOLVED)

Hi All,

I had occasion to use Dexed recently. Since Dexed has a built-in MIDI learn function, I tried using that to assign a MIDI controller to one of the operator level controls but it just sat there as if I'd sent nothing, then it crashed REAPER. Inserting ReaControlMIDI before Dexed on the same track confirms the incoming MIDI CC messages. Ticking the "Buggy plugin compatibility mode" seems to prevent Dexed from causing REAPER to crash, but doesn't help with MIDI learn. I see the same thing here on all three flavours of Dexed (VST, VST3 and LV2).

MIDI learn in Surge works fine so I suppose this is most likely to be a bug in Dexed but I haven't seen anyone else complaining about it.

Would someone mind confirming this please? If you find the same thing happening I'll try reporting it to the Dexed developer.

Thanks.

Last edited by Xasman; 11-16-2022 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:36 AM   #2
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Bumping this in case it was missed.

Anyone?
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:45 AM   #3
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Not home right now to test dexed MIDI learn, will try when home this evening.
I can highly recommend ReaLearn though, when I first looked at it, it seemed complicated.
After using for a bit I learned it can do a whole lot and is fairly easy to use.
Works extremely well if you have multiple controllers running at once.
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Old 11-15-2022, 10:29 AM   #4
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I just looked to see, but my copy of Dexed is a VSTi v0.9.4 from 2018 and I couldn't find any built in learn function, but using REAPER's parameter modulation I was able to instantly link up a hardware fader on my Oxygen controller to the cutoff control in Dexed.

Edit: So I installed Dexed from the Manjaro repository and the VST3i is a DevBuild dated September 2022. Tried linking up cutoff again but this time with the built in learn function in Dexed and it instantly saw the same fader I used in the previous test. The Learn function seems to work fine in the version I just installed.
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Old 11-15-2022, 11:54 AM   #5
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Thanks Glenn,

I have the same VST3i version installed via the Manjaro repo. On further testing I see if I use a USB MIDI controller (my x-touch mini), then it works fine. However, it doesn't work with the DATA controller on my Yamaha keyboard (connected via 5-pin DIN to the Behringer UMC1820), but this DOES work fine with MIDI learn in Surge.

Interesting - I'll do some more testing later in case it has to do with conflicting MIDI channels or something (I doubt it though because the x-touch transmits MIDI control messages by default on MIDI channel 11 and the Yamaha on MIDI channel 1).

@fsynth

Thanks for your comment too. I'm sure ReaLearn is great but it's overkill for what I'm looking for - I just occasionally need to control one or two knobs on a VST etc.

Appreciate the feedback guys, thank you.

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Old 11-15-2022, 12:30 PM   #6
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One possible thing to check, would be to make sure that the UMC1820 has both Enable+Control set in REAPER. Probably already set like that if Surge is seeing some data, but might be worth a look.
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Old 11-15-2022, 02:25 PM   #7
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Yep, I already have Enable+Control set.

Will investigate further and report back.
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Old 11-16-2022, 02:05 AM   #8
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Default SOLVED!

OK, I finally found the problem. For some reason, it seems Dexed doesn't like CC2 (Breath) controller messages, which is what I had set the data slider on my keyboard to transmit. I found I can set this to nearly any other CC (finally changed mine to CC3) and Dexed will "learn" the MIDI correctly.

Seems like an odd bug (which is probably why I could find no other reports of it) but anyway, at least I've found the solution and hopefully this post may help if anyone else happens to run into the same issue.

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Old 11-16-2022, 09:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasman View Post
OK, I finally found the problem. For some reason, it seems Dexed doesn't like CC2 (Breath) controller messages, which is what I had set the data slider on my keyboard to transmit. I found I can set this to nearly any other CC (finally changed mine to CC3) and Dexed will "learn" the MIDI correctly.

Seems like an odd bug (which is probably why I could find no other reports of it) but anyway, at least I've found the solution and hopefully this post may help if anyone else happens to run into the same issue.
Glad you figured it out. Maybe CC2 is off limits because Dexed has it in use to mimic the real hardware or something.
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Old 11-16-2022, 12:36 PM   #10
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Maybe. I never actually owned a DX7 but seem to remember they were breath-controllable though. I do have an original TX81Z and that definitely responds to breath control from my (now ancient but still working) WX7.

EDIT: Now I get it! I just noticed that CC2 (Breath Control) and CC4 (Foot Control) are hard-wired to their own controls in Dexed's Parameters (PARM) window, as are CC1 (Mod Wheel) and Aftertouch (Channel Pressure), which is probably why they cannot be used by MIDI learn elsewhere in Dexed.

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Old 11-16-2022, 12:54 PM   #11
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Maybe. I never actually owned a DX7 but seem to remember they were breath-controllable though. I do have an original TX81Z and that definitely responds to breath control from my (now ancient but still working) WX7.
I had a real DX7 in the 80s and 90s, and it had a port for a breath controller, but I never bought one for it. I did however have a patch librarian and saved all my patches to a .syx file.

I bought Native Instruments FM7 when it was a new product, and was able to load all my real DX7 patches into it so it was like having my old DX7 back. Unfortunately, I converted the bank into an FM7 bank and lost the original .syx file so I can't load my DX7 patches into Dexed, but I can still use them in FM7 which runs fine in WINE and bridged with LinVST.
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Old 11-16-2022, 03:17 PM   #12
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Hi Glenn,

Do you mean DX7 patches you'd programmed yourself, or the original Yamaha ROM cartridge presets?

If the original Yamaha presets, then they're all freely available (together with a gazillion 3rd party ones as part of BlackWinny's compilation named Dexed_cart_1.0.zip, which is downloadable from this page:

https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/
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Old 11-16-2022, 04:50 PM   #13
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Hi Glenn,

Do you mean DX7 patches you'd programmed yourself, or the original Yamaha ROM cartridge presets?

If the original Yamaha presets, then they're all freely available (together with a gazillion 3rd party ones as part of BlackWinny's compilation named Dexed_cart_1.0.zip, which is downloadable from this page:

https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/
Thanks. I probably have them all. I just checked my folder of DX7 patches that I accumulated over the years, and there are 12,729 .syx files, each with 32 patches. Unfortunately, my customized bank isn't one of them. Once I had imported my bank into the FM7, I didn't think I'd ever need the original .syx file again, and I was right until I went Linux and got Dexed.

In the 80s I had an MSDOS patch librarian for my DX7 and I knew a few other people with DX7s, so we'd all trade patches we had scavenged.

I put a bank together of my favorite patches, but then had tweaked them further to my liking. I was pretty good at creating and editing FM synthesis patches once I understood how Yamaha's algorithms worked, and the carrier/modulator relationship.
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Old 11-16-2022, 09:27 PM   #14
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Ah, I see. Well, I guess if you desperately wanted to recover your customized bank then you could always open it up with FM7/8 running in wine/yabridge (or LinVst) and copy each of the relevant settings for each preset over to Dexed by hand in Reaper. Might get a bit tedious - but still perhaps doable for just one bank of 32 patches - after all you'd only need to do it once.

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Old 11-17-2022, 11:07 AM   #15
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Ah, I see. Well, I guess if you desperately wanted to recover your customized bank then you could always open it up with FM7/8 running in wine/yabridge (or LinVst) and copy each of the relevant settings for each preset over to Dexed by hand in Reaper. Might get a bit tedious - but still perhaps doable for just one bank of 32 patches - after all you'd only need to do it once.
I've considered doing that, but it would be tedious, and the FM7 works fine with very little CPU consumption. As a matter of fact, I've got a project underway right now that is using the FM7 with one of the patches from my old first generation (brown) DX7.

The patches "Jump" and "Storm" were both ones I created from scratch, where Jump is of course the EVH synth sound, and storm was a big thunderstorm with rain on the top keys and thunder on the lower ones.
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Old 11-17-2022, 01:26 PM   #16
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Fair enough - that's definitely the most straightforward option.
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Old 11-17-2022, 03:14 PM   #17
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Fair enough - that's definitely the most straightforward option.
I've used Dexed on a whole lot of projects too though. Really there are just a handful of the patches I imported from my old DX7 that I still like to use today, so unless I'm specifically wanting one of those DX7 patches, I use Dexed since it's native Linux.

Edit:
I found the patch I'm using on the FM7 in the zillions of .syx file I have. The version of it in FM7 has been been tweaked by me on a real DX7.

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14516162

The above link is a quick comparison of the FM7 tweaked version of "Pluk 16.1" followed by the un-tweaked Pluk 16.1 in Dexed. I'm going to try and tweak it in Dexed to tame it down a notch like the FM7 version. I might get my most used patches moved over to Dexed this way.
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Old 11-18-2022, 12:07 AM   #18
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I had FM7 too (as part of Komplete 2) on my old windows machine, but didn't bother to install it on my new Linux box, partly because I no longer want to bother with software that has intrusive DRM, but also because, with Surge XT, Dexed, Cardinal, Zebra, ACE and Diva (all native Linux) I think I already have enough synths to cover my needs.

EDIT: Your "Pluk 16.1" patch sounds great! It also sounds like the FM7 is responding less to velocity changes than Dexed. I guess that might have something to do with the fact that the original DX7 only used velocity levels from 0-100 (and perhaps FM7 is scaling down incoming velocity to that range?) while Dexed responds to the full 0-127 range. Anyway, as you say, it should be easy enough to tame the patch in Dexed.

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Old 11-18-2022, 08:04 AM   #19
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I had FM7 too (as part of Komplete 2) on my old windows machine, but didn't bother to install it on my new Linux box, partly because I no longer want to bother with software that has intrusive DRM, but also because, with Surge XT, Dexed, Cardinal, Zebra, ACE and Diva (all native Linux) I think I already have enough synths to cover my needs.
The FM7 and B4 Organ I have are first gen stand alone versions on CDROM disks. Both of them have simple keycodes to activate, and while Native Access sees they are both installed, it doesn't believe they are activated, since they don't activate online.

Quote:
EDIT: Your "Pluk 16.1" patch sounds great! It also sounds like the FM7 is responding less to velocity changes than Dexed. I guess that might have something to do with the fact that the original DX7 only used velocity levels from 0-100 (and perhaps FM7 is scaling down incoming velocity to that range?) while Dexed responds to the full 0-127 range. Anyway, as you say, it should be easy enough to tame the patch in Dexed.
The difference in the two are that I edited the original Pluk 16.1 on my hardware DX7. It sounded too bright and clangorous on the real DX7 too, so I tamed it down there, and when I imported all my patches from the DX7 to the FM7, the modified version is what I got on the FM7.

Yesterday I looked through about 100 .syx files and found the un-edited version and then played a section of my current project through both, so it is the same midi file playing both, but FM7 had my edited version of Pluk 16.1 and Dexed has the original un-edited version.

I started looking through both interfaces to see if I could copy parameter values, but they are laid out so differently it will probably be easier to just tweak it by ear on Dexed. IIRC, it was mostly a matter of lowering a couple of the modulators to limit their range.
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Old 11-18-2022, 08:36 AM   #20
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The FM7 and B4 Organ I have are first gen stand alone versions on CDROM disks. Both of them have simple keycodes to activate, and while Native Access sees they are both installed, it doesn't believe they are activated, since they don't activate online.
I'd almost forgotten that I still have original CDROMS for FM7, Kontakt and Absynth too, though I think mine periodically required the original CDs to be inserted to check they were genuine.

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The difference in the two are that I edited the original Pluk 16.1 on my hardware DX7. It sounded too bright and clangorous on the real DX7 too, so I tamed it down there, and when I imported all my patches from the DX7 to the FM7, the modified version is what I got on the FM7.

Yesterday I looked through about 100 .syx files and found the un-edited version and then played a section of my current project through both, so it is the same midi file playing both, but FM7 had my edited version of Pluk 16.1 and Dexed has the original un-edited version.
Ah, gotcha!

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I started looking through both interfaces to see if I could copy parameter values, but they are laid out so differently it will probably be easier to just tweak it by ear on Dexed. IIRC, it was mostly a matter of lowering a couple of the modulators to limit their range.
Right - it's been so long since I used FM7 I really don't remember much about its' editing layout.
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Old 11-18-2022, 09:55 AM   #21
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I'd almost forgotten that I still have original CDROMS for FM7, Kontakt and Absynth too, though I think mine periodically required the original CDs to be inserted to check they were genuine.
The B4 Organ CD has a hole drilled through it too, to keep you from copying it. High tech DRM.

Quote:
Right - it's been so long since I used FM7 I really don't remember much about its' editing layout.
Once I no longer had a real DX7 I never messed with editing and creating new patches in FM7. The editing layout in Dexed seems superior to the FM7 or for that matter, even a real DX7 because you can see it all without having to switch through a bunch of tabs and menus.

I might have to take a crack at creating a patch or two from scratch in Dexed just to see what I do with it from that angle.
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Old 11-19-2022, 02:17 AM   #22
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...The editing layout in Dexed seems superior to the FM7 or for that matter, even a real DX7 because you can see it all without having to switch through a bunch of tabs and menus.
Yes indeed. I really like that aspect of Dexed - as well as the fact that it also sounds great (I always set it to the "Modern" 24-bit engine, which apparently reduces a few unwanted artifacts).

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I might have to take a crack at creating a patch or two from scratch in Dexed just to see what I do with it from that angle.
Exactly what I've just been doing!
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Old 11-19-2022, 10:26 AM   #23
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Yes indeed. I really like that aspect of Dexed - as well as the fact that it also sounds great (I always set it to the "Modern" 24-bit engine, which apparently reduces a few unwanted artifacts).
I'll have to mess with that, although I haven't really experienced any glitches in the audio from Dexed.

Quote:
Exactly what I've just been doing!
I opened Dexed and FM7 side by side last night and tried to modify the un-edited version of Pluk 16.1 on Dexed to sound like the version that came from my DX7 on FM7, and while I've got it close, it still doesn't sound identical. Gonna see if I can copy some parameter values next.

Was fun remembering how the algorithms work on a DX7. The patch I'm messing with has one carrier, with three modulators, and two of the modulators have their own modulators, one of which also sports a feedback loop, resulting in a very complex waveform.
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Old 11-20-2022, 03:11 AM   #24
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...The patch I'm messing with has one carrier, with three modulators, and two of the modulators have their own modulators, one of which also sports a feedback loop, resulting in a very complex waveform.
Algorithm 16 then!

Just in case you haven't seen it already, I think this interesting and useful video about using Dexed by John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl is well worth a watch...

...and here is a very informative (though heavily technical) article by Ken Sherriff about the DX7.
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Old 11-20-2022, 11:33 AM   #25
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Algorithm 16 then!

Just in case you haven't seen it already, I think this interesting and useful video about using Dexed by John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl is well worth a watch...

...and here is a very informative (though heavily technical) article by Ken Sherriff about the DX7.
Cool video. I definitely learned a couple tricks I didn't know, like dragging and dropping patches from the preview pane to the cartridge pane to setup your own custom banks.
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Old 11-21-2022, 02:15 AM   #26
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Cool video. I definitely learned a couple tricks I didn't know, like dragging and dropping patches from the preview pane to the cartridge pane to setup your own custom banks.
Yes, that is really useful info. I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere else before either.
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Old 04-21-2024, 04:19 PM   #27
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I had a real DX7 in the 80s and 90s, and it had a port for a breath controller, but I never bought one for it. I did however have a patch librarian and saved all my patches to a .syx file.

I bought Native Instruments FM7 when it was a new product, and was able to load all my real DX7 patches into it so it was like having my old DX7 back. Unfortunately, I converted the bank into an FM7 bank and lost the original .syx file so I can't load my DX7 patches into Dexed, but I can still use them in FM7 which runs fine in WINE and bridged with LinVST.
So today I was booted up into an image of one of my old Amiga HDDs using the Amiga emulator, FS UAS and I noticed a folder named "DX7 Stuff".

In that folder were all my System Exclusive dumps for the real DX7 I used to own. I copied the folder to my DAW machine, and they load right up in Dexed. The highest dated .syx file was created on 4/27/1993 and has all the patches I used on my real DX7 before it burned up one day.
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Old 04-22-2024, 12:59 AM   #28
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So today I was booted up into an image of one of my old Amiga HDDs using the Amiga emulator, FS UAS and I noticed a folder named "DX7 Stuff".

In that folder were all my System Exclusive dumps for the real DX7 I used to own. I copied the folder to my DAW machine, and they load right up in Dexed. The highest dated .syx file was created on 4/27/1993 and has all the patches I used on my real DX7 before it burned up one day.
Ha - excellent!
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Old 04-22-2024, 07:38 AM   #29
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Ha - excellent!
I was glad to find those, because now I can always use the native Linux Dexed instead of the bridged Windows FM7. My wife also had a real DX7 back in the 90s and I found a sysex file of her patches too.
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Old 04-22-2024, 07:54 AM   #30
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I was glad to find those, because now I can always use the native Linux Dexed instead of the bridged Windows FM7. My wife also had a real DX7 back in the 90s and I found a sysex file of her patches too.
A double win, then - congratulations to both you and your wife! It seems that it does sometimes pay to hoard things...

I completely agree with you about preferring to use native tools on Linux if and when possible, too. In fact, I'm running native Linux plugins about 98% of the time now.
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Old 04-22-2024, 10:14 AM   #31
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A double win, then - congratulations to both you and your wife! It seems that it does sometimes pay to hoard things...
Hehe, I had her come into the studio and run through her old patches.
Her response was, "I have better sounds to play now".

Quote:
I completely agree with you about preferring to use native tools on Linux if and when possible, too. In fact, I'm running native Linux plugins about 98% of the time now.
Other than Kontakt, most of my projects are using pure Linux plugins now.
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Old 04-22-2024, 11:24 AM   #32
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Dexed rocks!
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Old 04-23-2024, 12:55 AM   #33
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Hehe, I had her come into the studio and run through her old patches.
Her response was, "I have better sounds to play now".
It would be interesting to know what those better sounds are, and what gear she's using to generate them...(not that I'm overly gear obsessed or anything, you understand... )
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Old 04-23-2024, 07:41 AM   #34
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It would be interesting to know what those better sounds are, and what gear she's using to generate them...(not that I'm overly gear obsessed or anything, you understand... )
She's got a Roland FA-06 that she plays in the chamber symphony, so it's primarily sampled sounds she uses now.
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Old 04-23-2024, 07:56 AM   #35
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Also some "no-news" i'm guessing is - https://archive.org/
Have stuff like Windows 98, c64/amiga and other stuff, did i say stuff? great!
*me hides*
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Old 04-23-2024, 09:02 PM   #36
Xasman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
She's got a Roland FA-06 that she plays in the chamber symphony, so it's primarily sampled sounds she uses now.
Ah, cool, thanks. 😎
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