Old 01-18-2020, 08:35 AM   #1
yumyum123
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 4
Default Host automation vs 14-bit MIDI CC?

Hi there,

It's my first time posting here, so hopefully this is the right place to ask.

Anyway, I've been working on a track using host automation with the SWAM violin and have found Reaper's host automation envelopes more helpful than using 14-bit (or 7-bit) MIDI CCs. Host automation also seems to sound better than 14-bit MIDI CC (I copied the host automation envelopes into ReaControlMIDI, which uses 14-bit MIDI, but the sound seems worse, at least to my ears).

However, one of the plugins my track is dependent on only recognises MIDI CCs rather than host automation. So my question is:

1) Does host automation really provide higher "resolution" than 14-bit MIDI or is this possibly a placebo effect where I'm simply imagining things?

2) I'm already able to send envelope data as MIDI CC data (through ReaControlMIDI), but am wondering how I can convert MIDI CCs -> host automation. (DivisiMate seems to require MIDI CC input and outputs MIDI CC data, and I figure I can probably obtain a better sound by the MIDI CC data outputted by DivisiMate to automation envelopes, but I don't know how to do this.)

Hopefully my question isn't too wordy. Thanks in advance for any help!
yumyum123

---

A couple of edits after I found the solution to my own problem in case anyone else experiences the same.

For question 1, it seems Reaper provides smoothing for automation based on buffer block size (the lower the block size, the more "automation smoothing" that Reaper gives).

For question 2, MIDI CC can be converted into host automation data with the CCEnv plugins (https://vi-control.net/community/thr...4/post-4218062). Simply download and install the plugins and add them at the start of a track FX, and relevant envelope data is written while Reaper plays those tracks back.

Last edited by yumyum123; 01-18-2020 at 10:59 AM.
yumyum123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 11:42 PM   #2
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
Default

Welcome to the Reaper Forums !

Quote:
Originally Posted by yumyum123 View Post
SWAM ... I found Reaper's host automation envelopes more helpful than using 14-bit (or 7-bit) MIDI CCs. Host automation also seems to sound better than 14-bit MIDI CC (I copied the host automation envelopes into ReaControlMIDI, which uses 14-bit MIDI, but the sound seems worse, at least to my ears).
AFAIK, SWAM does not read 14 Bit Midi CC. But as 14 bit Midi is designed to be compatible with 7 Bit Midi, it just ignores the lower 7 bits and hence it does work correctly, but just no different from when being sent 7 Bit CC.

But you don't need to forget about 14 bit Midi, you can use Reapers Plugin environment to convert 14 bit Midi CC in the track into a DAW (automation) parameter by [PARAM] -> FX Parameter List -> Parameter Modulation / Midi Link ... Hence no need for an additional plugin.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 01-19-2020 at 11:37 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 10:00 AM   #3
Quadcore
Human being with feelings
 
Quadcore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
...into a DAW (automation) parameter by [PARAM] -> FX Parameter List -> Parameter Modulation / Midi Link ... Hence no need for an additional plugin
Yes, this is one of my favorite way of creating some amazing effects with my SoftStep 1, I'm in awe !
Quadcore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 10:04 AM   #4
yumyum123
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Welcome to the Reaper Forums !
Thank you for the warm welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
AFAIK, SWAM does not read 14 Bit Midi CC. But as 14 bit Midi is compatible to 7 Bit Midi, it just ignores the lower 7 bits and hence it does work correctly, but just no different from when being sent 7 Bit CC.
I don't know if 14-bit MIDI CC is officially supported by SWAM Violin, but I used a ReaControlMIDI plugin to automate the same envelope data in raw mode (7-bit) and normal (14-bit) and heard a difference. So I think it has an audible difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But you don't need to forget about 14 bit Midi, you can use Reapers Plugin environment to concert 14 bit Midi CC in the track into a DAW (automation) parameter by [PARAM] -> FX Parameter List -> Parameter Modulation / Midi Link ... Hence no need for an additional plugin.

-Michael
Thanks for the help! That's much faster than using the CCEnv plugin and seems to provide the same results.
yumyum123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 11:39 PM   #5
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yumyum123 View Post
That's much faster than using the CCEnv plugin and seems to provide the same results.
It also replaces the use of ReaControlMidi in many cases, and also supports 7 and 14 bit CC.
-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.