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Old 04-21-2018, 06:58 AM   #41
DONNY
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Like i said before, working 100% inside the box intrigues me box, for one, I aint gotta worry about reinstalling plugins in the event I have to move to another computer, computer crashes, or what have you. I think the reaplugs got potential to do what I want. Second and lastly, i'm always having to clear cache and rescan or restart my pc when reaper reports that certain plugins are missing when a project loads when they clearly are not. But ease of use, quick loading of plugins, and simply not having to reference third party plugins is the true reason for ITB mixing.

I've successfully gotten rid of the rcomp with reacomp, now i'm just working on matching settings with reacomp to get it to do what the L2 is doing which is simply this . I sure this is all fairly simple to do with reacomp. the other built in limiters distort easily when pushed.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:11 AM   #42
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The problem you are describing is something that happened with Waves licensing and doesn't happen with freeware plugins that don't require licensing. You can add any plug-in you want if it's the kind that just "drops in" so to speak (place dll into VST folder or JS into Reaper resource folder in "effects"). There's always a possibility it will develop an incompatibility or that Reaper will develop an incompatibility to the plug-in, but that's a rare thing and it could also be fixed if it's reported to the Reaper devs. It's not even worth worrying about. A lot of people on the forums use what are considered to be ancient plugins, 32-bit plug-ins from well over 10 years ago, unsupported, but still work fine with bridging in 64-bit Reaper yet.

You say you have gotten the exact sound you want with ReaComp? Well that's great anyway. That is if it actually sounds the same, and not just that you are assuming it does without actually doing a comparison. Just because it has some features which are supposed to be similar doesn't mean it actually sounds the same. I found ReaComp to be a very flexible and useful plugin but I haven't been able to make it completely sound like other compressor plugins I like.

In any case getting the exact functionality that you want from L2 out of it isn't something I would expect.

Last edited by JamesPeters; 04-21-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:21 AM   #43
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I see.

Well I've gotten the same "squishiness" that i was really looking for out of rcomp with reacomp. I dont really care much about the actual sound itself. Don't seem like i'm going to get that with the L2. I do use it for light limiting for vocal peaks and its great to just move the middle slider down until it just "catches vocal peaks".. the middle slider both controls the threshold and ceiling.. with the l2 on automatic release. just simple and quick
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:24 AM   #44
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If you are only concerned about limiting light vocal peaks, you don't need L2 for that. Nor would I use a clipper. NP1136 should work very well for this in PD ratio mode. The attack is in microseconds so it is very fast. Make sure you don't set the release too fast because you are trying to make the sound smoother. And make sure it only shaves off the light peaks.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:43 AM   #45
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I'll give it another go..

Question, is the " program dependent release" function on reaxcomp the same as automatic release control?
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:02 AM   #46
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sounds like it is
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:05 PM   #47
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The thing about RComp isn't so much how it sounds, which is fine, but that it's easy and intuitive. It's quick and easy, which I've learned in my old age is valuable.

What's I've reluctantly come to realize with Waves is that for the most part their stuff isn't necessarily "better" sounding, but they get the controls to "feel" right; and their presets are good starting points. Now that they've finally got out of the ILok cult and offer just about anything for $49 they're kind of hard to try to go around "cheaply" IMO.
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:10 PM   #48
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Truth^^^^
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:08 PM   #49
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Once upon a time when I owned bunch of waves plugins I thought Renaissance compressor was an intuitive plugin. It turns out I didn't know how to use a compressor. Whatever I thought was intuitive was not actually helping me very much. When I learned how to use a compressor suddenly it didn't matter weather the interface looked more intuitive or not. I mean sometimes I still like to see a gain reduction meter (if there are several "extra" controls which might affect the compression or release curve, so I get some indication of how they function) or maybe an input meter for setting a threshold but I can do without any eye candy and I actually don't even need any meters.

Compression really is one of those things you need to learn with your ears and not your eyes. It takes a lot of comparison on different source materials.

I do understand the appeal of the interface of a plug-in like that. However its importance is probably a bit overstated.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:10 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNY View Post
I've successfully gotten rid of the rcomp with reacomp...
Well I've gotten the same "squishiness" that i was really looking for out of rcomp with reacomp. I dont really care much about the actual sound itself.
Which settings did you settle on in ReaComp that you find approximates the compression characteristics of Waves Renaissance Compressor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNY View Post
...now i'm just working on matching settings with reacomp to get it to do what the L2 is doing which is simply this . I sure this is all fairly simple to do with reacomp. the other built in limiters distort easily when pushed

Don't seem like i'm going to get that with the L2. I do use it for light limiting for vocal peaks and its great to just move the middle slider down until it just "catches vocal peaks".. the middle slider both controls the threshold and ceiling.. with the l2 on automatic release. just simple and quick
If you want peak limiting without gain for catching vocal peaks, a maximizer is not really the correct tool since they pretty much all include gaining the input to hit a threshold.
[EDIT] Also, L2 has dithering. I don't know if that something you can turn on or off, but a file should only be dithered once, on the final render, the way I understand it. So, you really would not want to have the Dither active for peak limiting a vocal track. I'm sure you know this, but to me that's just another reason why L2 wouldn't be the correct tool for this task for me, as I would not want to accidentally forget to turn off the dithering. [/EDIT]

Try JS:Simple Peak-1 Limiter which has only a threshold setting and no makeup gain or other controls. I don't know why the release time would matter too much for catching transients. Speaking of which, a transient tool might also do what you want in this regard. Type "trans" in the FX Browser filter box. There are several transient tools in JS FX.

In ReaComp you can try these settings:
Precomp = 0
Attack = 0
select Auto Release
Ratio = Inf
Knee = 0
Detector Input = Main Input L+R
RMS size = 0

Then work your way up from there to approximate the behavior of Waves L2. I don't have L2, so that's the best I can suggest. You're probably going to have to crank up the AA (anti-aliasing, AKA oversampling) setting to reduce the aliasing when using extreme limiting settings like above.
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Last edited by insub; 04-23-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
You can use the knee setting to modulate the ratio. High ratio + High Knee = variable ratio.
E.g. setting the ratio to 12:1 and a knee setting of 12 dB should mean that you won't actually get a 12:1 ratio until the gain reduction gets to -12 dB, if I understand the knee setting correctly.
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Well...no...

Knee size "rounds off" the transition region between no compression and full ratio. The way ReaComp does it is to sort of "spread" the knee around the threshold so that there will be some compression starting below the threshold, but you won't reach the full ratio until somewhere above the threshold. Best I can tell, this spread is centered at the threshold so that with a 12db Knee Size, we'd expect it to start to apply some gain reduction at 6db below the threshold, and not reach full ratio until 6db above. It IS very much like the ratio is dependent on the input level.
Ash, are you certain of this assessment?

This is from the ReaEffectsGuide:
"The knee size determines the range of volume (rather than a specified amount of
time) which the compressor will use in applying the compression ratio. For example,
with a ratio of 4:1 and a knee setting of 0 dB, the full 4:1 ratio will be applied as soon
as the threshold is exceeded. With a knee size of 10 dB, the ratio will be gradually
increased from 1:1 at the threshold level, eventually reaching the full 4:1 when the
volume exceeds the threshold by a full 10 dB."


So, by that statement you'll get the full ratio once the Detector Input signal is over the threshold by the knee dB amount. Which would not be determined by watching the Gain Reduction meter like I thought, but also not spreading the knee below the threshold either, as you suggest.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:13 AM   #52
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Reading this first thing before I had my coffee I thought "Shit! Maybe I'm wrong?" After a cup and a smoke, I realize "No. I do this all the time." Most of the time when I use ReaComp, I set the threshold just at the very top of the detector level and then increase the knee and I can watch the gain reduction start to "dig into" the signal below threshold. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid the manual is wrong on this one.

Edit - Here in moving pictures:

You'll notice the gain reduction comes back down after the a certain point on the knee control. I still haven't had enough coffee to account for that.

Last edited by ashcat_lt; 04-23-2018 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
But there's a weird side effect of this behavior that is most noticeable at high ratio settings. The thing is that there are places in the knee where quieter inputs can cause louder outputs than louder inputs. The gain curve actually folds back over in a weird sort of way. I'm not sure how much it really impacts most uses, but when you start trying to use it as a hard/fast limiter or waveshaper, it can start to get ugly, creating a fairly unnatural type of distortion. I posted a whole bug report about it, but nobody seems all that concerned...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Reading this first thing before I had my coffee I thought "Shit! Maybe I'm wrong?" After a cup and a smoke, I realize "No. I do this all the time." Most of the time when I use ReaComp, I set the threshold just at the very top of the detector level and then increase the knee and I can watch the gain reduction start to "dig into" the signal below threshold. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid the manual is wrong on this one.

Edit - Here in moving pictures:

You'll notice the gain reduction comes back down after the a certain point on the knee control. I still haven't had enough coffee to account for that.
OK, I see what you mean about the bug in the behavior. I think what this is showing is that both you and the ReaEffectsGuide are mostly correct.

If the Threshold is not at 1:1 when the knee is added, but also not centered within the knee (majority of knee above threshold), then that would explain why the gain reduction below the threshold would decrease as the knee is increased. Perhaps the same portion of knee is below the threshold, but the ratio there gets closer to 1:1 as the top of the knee gets further away.

So, it seems to me that the desired behavior was to work as described in the manual, but the actual beginning of the knee is below the threshold. And, it appears that more of the knee goes below the threshold as the knee is increased. But, at 11.7:1 as shown in your GIF, the GR never becomes much more than -2 dB, so I'm thinking that most of the knee stays above the threshold. I'm sure I'm not doing the math correctly, but I think it's around 15% of the knee below the threshold value. A percentage of knee below the threshold would explain the ramping gain reduction, at least in my mind. It's been many years since I had a math class .
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:24 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Which settings did you settle on in ReaComp that you find approximates the compression characteristics of Waves Renaissance Compressor?



In ReaComp you can try these settings:
Precomp = 0
Attack = 0
select Auto Release
Ratio = Inf
Knee = 0
Detector Input = Main Input L+R
RMS size = 0

.
I'm really going to have to play with the compressor settings to get it to act like waves l2 . I think what im hearing with the l2 is some maximization and limiting which in my current signal chain sounds appreciable. Reacomp just sounds really rough around the edges right now. Need to play with it more.


As far as getting Reapers compressor to behave like waves compressor It was just a matter of pushing the compressor a little harder Beyond the settings i used for waves compressor. Lower threshold, higher rAtio... some pre comp, an increase in knee. I'm sure not all of that needed to be configured but to my ears sounds close
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:43 AM   #55
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Its killing me to watch you jump through hoops to get Reacomp to behave like an L2 (which it won't) when there is a simple solution available for free.

https://loudmax.blogspot.com/
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:51 AM   #56
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I'll check it out. Thanks
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:06 AM   #57
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Its killing me to watch you jump through hoops to get Reacomp to behave like an L2 (which it won't) when there is a simple solution available for free.

https://loudmax.blogspot.com/
Kind of how I've felt about this whole thread.
But, I've learned a few things about ReaComp and some of the JS FX that I haven't paid much attention to in the past. So, I'm happy about that. It's definitely been an interesting exercise for me.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:11 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Magicbuss View Post
Its killing me to watch you jump through hoops to get Reacomp to behave like an L2 (which it won't) when there is a simple solution available for free.

https://loudmax.blogspot.com/
There's also Yohng's W1 Limiter which has an adjustable Release and Adaptive Release.
http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html

Of course, it's based on the L1, not L2, but it has the Adaptive Release option which DONNY was particularly interested in.

I assume LoudMax is always in Auto Release mode.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:25 AM   #59
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There's also Yohng's W1 Limiter which has an adjustable Release and Adaptive Release.
http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html

Of course, it's based on the L1, not L2, but it has the Adaptive Release option which DONNY was particularly interested in.

I assume LoudMax is always in Auto Release mode.
Yup. Loud max is auto release. While the W1 is a functional L1 clone I dont like that it lacks metering. Also the loudmax link feature allows you to easily use it as a track limiter (no volume increase) or a maximizer in a more intuitive way than W1.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:37 AM   #60
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I've actually been using the w1 plugin and it works great, but gives me no visual reference of peak control. the official version is supposed to have one but is not released yet..
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Old 07-12-2022, 03:13 AM   #61
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On voiceover material:

JS Event Horizon Limiter/Clipper and other Reaper limiters makes audible distortion when working up to 9 dB GR.
W1 and Loudmax works much better. Sounds very like Waves L1. But introduces 64/60 latency in 48 kHz.

JS Event Horizon Limiter/Clipper is 0 PDC, this can be important in live mode.
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