Old 03-17-2017, 08:14 AM   #1
JerContact
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Default Multi Mono FX

This is a huge issue and workflow problem with Reaper. No Multi Mono effect in one window is really annoying...this seems like an easy fix!
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:28 AM   #2
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???

Can you explain what you mean? What is a multi mono (dual mono??) effect?
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:35 AM   #3
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Most effects aren't surround. But, if I want all channels in a multichannel sound to have the same effect (like your fav limiter or compressor on all channels), pro tools lets you use a multi-mono effect. That means that it uses a mono plugin, but it effects each channel in the multichannel sound.

As of right now, to get that same effect, I would need to initiate 3 stereo plugins or 6 mono plugins and go into the routing of each plugin to set it up correcty. Then, if i change a setting, i would need to copy and paste those settings onto each plugin.

With pro tools, the multi-mono effect can be linked, so you just see one window and it effects all channels. Seems like that could be an easy addition to Reaper, and it's used a lot in post production environments.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:23 AM   #4
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Reaper tracks feature as many channels as you like (<=64) so you can use any 3rd party Multi-Mono Effect.

-Michael
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:29 AM   #5
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Effects are usually mono or stereo. It's the DAW that makes it multi-mono. Yes, reaper has huge flexibility and you can actually do multi mono manually. BUT, you have to initiate 6 mono effects on a track and route them for each channel (for 5.1 that is). That seems silly coming from pro tools when you just select multi-mono on the track, and it just works.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerContact View Post
As of right now, to get that same effect, I would need to initiate 3 stereo plugins or 6 mono plugins and go into the routing of each plugin to set it up correcty. Then, if i change a setting, i would need to copy and paste those settings onto each plugin.
Parameter Linking isn't all that complicated.

If there are things you would use regularly, or even just more than once, you can save the whole thing as an FX chain.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:27 PM   #7
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Ok I see now, yeah sounds like a neat feature for surround work. Parameter linking is not really a good option because to turn the whole plugin unlinked temporarily would take a while.

Fair request.

However, I think the amount of work devs would have to put in for that feature vs. the massive abundance of high quality multi-channel designed plugins puts it pretty low on the list. That and surround sound mixing is a pretty rare occurance in music, and Reaper is not really a serious tool for the video editor.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerContact View Post
That seems silly coming from pro tools when you just select multi-mono on the track, and it just works.
Hopefully, a script can be done to automate the routing in the track and the parameter linking (can a script find out all parameters to be able to link them ? ).
Hopefully one day soon this is provided via ReaPack.

You might want to ask in the scripting Forum if anybody is inclined to help.

-Michael

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Old 07-07-2017, 09:52 AM   #9
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Hi. I'll join this request.
Multi-mono or, in my case, dual-mono.

BTW, does anyone know of some plug-ins that convert stereo track to dual-mono —
so any plug-in inserted right after that is automatically in dual-mono mode?
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
so any plug-in inserted right after that is automatically in dual-mono mode?
What exactly do you suggest is "dual-mono mode" ?

E.g. to me ReaEQ is stereo and at the same time "dual mono", as there is no mingling of the audio channels, while, OTOH, e.g. ReaVerb is mono to stereo and hence neither "stereo" nor "dual mono", as it adds the two input channels to a single mono signal and creates a sereo output signal from this.

I don't see how an additional pre-inserted plugin could do something about this.

Moreovce while I would like a "full stereo" version of ReaVerb (able to load two different stereo impulse files to be applied to either input channel and the stereo output channels of both be mixed together appropriately), I don't see any sense in as "dual mono" version of ReaVerb.

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Old 07-07-2017, 12:43 PM   #11
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One might want to compress each channel of the stereo track differently
or use a phase-correcting plug-in on each one.
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
One might want to compress each channel of the stereo track differently
or use a phase-correcting plug-in on each one.
If you want separate knobs for each side, you really need a plugin that's designed to do that, or to use two separate plugs. If you don't need separate control, but just want the two sides processed separately, most plugs already do that.


Compression is a bit of a special case in that we most often want both channels to get the same amount of gain reduction at the same time, so the signals are often combined in the detector sidechain. I think that in ReaComp you pick one channel or the other, but can't have each channel only affected by its own level only. There really is only one channel to the detector, which affects the gain cell for each signal channel the same at all times. Other compressors will often have a "stereo link" or similar parameter that can be used to get dual mono action out of it. It's still probably only going to have one set of controls.


Honestly, most of this thread sounds like people want multiple instances of the same plugin, but kind of hidden and maybe linked.
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Honestly, most of this thread sounds like people want multiple instances of the same plugin, but kind of hidden and maybe linked.
And don't want to invent what already exists...

REAPER has a lot of features other sequencers have too.
This is one of the features it doesn't have.
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
One might want to compress each channel of the stereo track differently
or use a phase-correcting plug-in on each one.
With completely different parameters I would not call this "dual mono", but two independent effects, which is already perfectly handled by Reaper (via "pin" routing). (Of course the second channel of a stereo plugin used would be unused, but this does not do much harm.)

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Old 07-08-2017, 12:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
BTW, does anyone know of some plug-ins that convert stereo track to dual-mono —
so any plug-in inserted right after that is automatically in dual-mono mode?
What's the difference ?
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:10 AM   #16
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What's the difference ?
For most plugins not a god damn thing as long as you want the parameters linked.

The OP was about multi-mono which (in Logic anyway, from what I've heard) basically means it instantiates hidden versions of the one plug that apply to the extra channels with all the parameters linked.

Then some other people were talking about wanting separate control of individual channel parameters, which is just not the same thing at all.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:36 AM   #17
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I don't get it.
You really want REAPER not to have that ability?
"Guys, off to Pro Tools" etc. — is that what you mean?

Someone in this thread earlier mentioned that REAPER is not meant for video editing.
Well, it is.
It's trying to be good at everything.
This is one of the things.

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Old 07-08-2017, 10:16 AM   #18
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I can actually see where the "multi-mono" thing could be handy.

"Dual mono" is actually default for most "stereo" effects.

It would be nice if ReaComp had a dual mono mode sometimes.

If you want separate control of parameters, though, I completely don't see how that's not just the same as using multiple instances.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:50 PM   #19
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Rather obviously it could be beneficial to have the plugins feature a "channel count" setting that can be adjusted form 1 to 64.

But that is not a feature of "Reaper" but of any individual plugin. may same come with the Reaper distribution or independently.

I don't see what Reaper (itself) could do about that (right now).

OTOH, "Plugin Containers / Macros" have been discussed here, already several times. Same could be scripted or an integral part of Reaper. On top of this function, maybe a multiple channel ability of such a macro (and with it the routing - and "multiplying" of the plugins contained) could be considered.

-Michael
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I don't see what Reaper (itself) could do about that.
Well... Hidden, parameter linked instances of the plug to cover the extra channels, like Logic seems to do.
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:08 PM   #21
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IMHO an appropriate done "Plugin Container / Macro" could provide exactly that and would be a lot more versatile.

-Michael
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Rather obviously it could be beneficial to have the plugins feature a "channel count" setting that can be adjusted form 1 to 64.

But that is not a feature of "Reaper" but of any individual plugin. ...
This looks like the correct answer to me. Reaper can handle this kind of task, but the included plugins cannot.

You may want to give the plugins made by Flux a try. These plugins support up to 8 channels per instance.

I just inserted Flux "Epure", "Pure Compressor" and "Pure Limiter" into a track in Reaper. Then I configured each plugin to 6 Inputs and 6 Outputs (Settings menu of the plugin). Now the "Plug-in connector window" shows the related inputs and outputs.

However, I cannot test if this works properly because I do not have any multichannel recordings at hand. In case of a compressor or limiter, I also wonder which channel of the track would be used for the sidechain signal.
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart Doctor View Post
, but the included plugins cannot.
Happily there are many plugins for any kind of purpose available in this world. Those who want such a special feature, should not be angry if this does not come as a free add-on to a very nicely priced DAW.

-Michael
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:30 AM   #24
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This feature makes sense IMHO. Too bad that the first post of this thread doesn't explains it kindly with screenshots or detailed explanations.



Having to have and set multiple instance of the plugin on split tracks isn't good that handy to manag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
Hopefully, a script can be done to automate the routing in the track and the parameter linking (can a script find out all parameters to be able to link them ? ).

Actually this already exists somehow (look at spk77 real time version in the thread)



https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=164796.
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:54 PM   #25
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The multi-mono functionality basically means that any mono-capable plugin can be used on an arbitrary number of track channels. One interface controls all these instances,

I created a 5.1 sidechain ducker recently by linking 3 instances of gates that each process two channels. The relevant parameters have to be linked by hand. I have not tested automation yet.

It was a collosal pain in the ass to setup. It’s a 1-click thing in PT to create, change and delete.

Aside from ReaSurround, Reaper has no surround VST plugins. In PT, almost any plugin can operate as a suroound plugin in multi-mono mode. Surround mixing is a thing in TV and film.

Actually, VST3 is suposed to be cool for this. Need to test some plugins to see if they process six channels or more. Voxengo Elephant can do it, though I have only tested v3 VST2.
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:27 PM   #26
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Yeah, This would be really useful for working in any formats wider than stereo. I too have tried to hack this functionality together using parameter linking, but there are some pretty drawbacks to that approach
  • As Airon mentioned it's a huge pain to set up. Incredibly time consuming and really easy to make a mistake without noticing right away
  • It clutters up the FX list with a bunch of duplicate plugins. This becomes especially annoying if you want to use a chain of more than one effect. 2 plugins suddenly becomes six if you want them to be 5.1. I have bunch of shortcuts to float particular fx windows on a track based on their "slot number", so the duplicate plugin instance can really mess with the way I work
  • I found that the linked plugins did not always properly follow the automation of the "master" instance. This makes it pretty much useless for me.

I can see how a script could help with my first problem (though even then you'd have to run the script everytime you wanted to instantiate a multi-channel plugin, or copied a plugin chain to a new track, and that's still a hassle I'd rather not have), but I think in order to solve the other two issues we'd really need this as a native feature.
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:48 PM   #27
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@RobinShore
Quote:
I can see how a script could help
I made some scripts to help set up, but can't be as efficient as a single toggle, as it required as many plugin instance than plugin.


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Old 07-05-2018, 03:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym View Post
@RobinShore
I made some scripts to help set up, but can't be as efficient as a single toggle, as it required as many plugin instance than plugin.


Nice! This is really clever, though having to explode the track into it's component channels is not very desirable.

Does it work when there's more than one plugin in on a track? How does it handle automation of plugin parameters. If I'm understanding correctly all of the mono component tracks need to be selected in order for the linking to be active, so I imagine that makes automation a no-go.
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
having to explode the track into it's component channels is not very desirable.

It can allow to have custom processing per channel... But it is not what Multi-Mono is about, so this is not what is requested there.


Quote:
Does it work when there's more than one plugin in on a track?
Yes !


Quote:
How does it handle automation of plugin parameters.
It seems to works surprisingly well, at a sample level precizion.



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Old 07-05-2018, 05:05 PM   #30
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Lokasenna managed to built a routing which allows to have items on the group track itself (it then have one track less). A bit more complex to set up cause it onvolves some routing within dummy JS plugin but way better to manage (the items are clearly visible).


Demo soon!
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:38 PM   #31
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Cockos would have to hide a lot of stuff. Many plugins do not have a mono version, so multiple stereo plugins would need to be an option. It boils down to one set of controls and envelopes applying to multiple instances of a plugin.

Can someone record a gif of doing this in PT? I’m sure Reaper could do THAT better too.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:38 AM   #32
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Performance note on the current state of affairs, if you're using latency compensated plugins across multiple channels and instances on a track, is this report here that I posted a few days ago https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=208670


It's likely just the way things are at the moment. Multi-mono/stereo instances to the rescue. Only one PDC value to consider. I say this because when you put up three identical(AFAIK) instances of ReaGate with identical, numerically entered pre-open values, Reaper actually adds the latency compensation values foe each plugin together, even though they're not processing the same channels. They do READ from the same set(ch7/8), but each of the three stereo instances processes two different channels.


Reaper has a lot of dropouts for the first few seconds of playback, less so when there's no audio coming in through the sidechain.


So that's a little fucked .
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Old 08-25-2018, 03:46 PM   #33
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This is yet another feature that could help film post users incredibly. Can we pls have this?
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:20 PM   #34
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i did this with channels and parameter linking, but its a pretty crap and hacky workaround
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:23 PM   #35
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i did this with channels and parameter linking, but its a pretty crap and hacky workaround
Yes. I do that too. It is a bad workaround. Totally agree with you
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:04 PM   #36
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Many voxengo plugins can operate in this manner. "Multi-Channel Operation" must be enabled in the Global Settings. It has switchable/tabbed views for each channel or pairs of channels. Melda plugins can also have up to 8 channels, but I don't think there are separate views for the channels. It is also a global setting under the L+R button.

Looks like Reaktor can operate this way also, as it includes 6 and 16 channel input plugin versions.

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Old 08-26-2018, 02:14 AM   #37
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Lots of plugins have multi channel versions, the point is that 2 channel versions have to be manually hacked to work in this way
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:36 AM   #38
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Hello everyone, it's "a bit late" message, but I couldn't find any progress on this topic so far, so I prefer to give my +1 to this feature.

Escaping from the ProTools world I will be super happy to have this feature on Reaper too! Here my use-case:
"I have several auxiliary tracks, each one with a different FX chain (mostly reverbs, delays, etc..) and when I want one track to have some reverb I simply create a stereo send to that track and that's it! The problem comes if I want to pan the sent signal left or right... some plugins (almost all reverbs for instance) produce a stereo result (both L+R) even if the input sound is panned hard-left.
Using MultiMono, ProTools allows me to pan the send as I wish giving me more flexibility in this particular case... btw I though it was a more common workflow since it doesn't come from my workflow, but who though me is a professional using ProTools so it doesn't count... or not "
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:57 PM   #39
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Hello. It's been a while...
Good news, hopefully (although from a 3rd party):

Nugen Audio SigMod

Review:
https://www.mixonline.com/technology...GjRGaxoHHHbsX8

Off. site:
https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/

Haven't dug into it myself though.

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Old 03-27-2020, 04:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugerJ View Post
Hello. It's been a while...
Good news, hopefully (although from a 3rd party):

Nugen Audio SigMod

Review:
https://www.mixonline.com/technology...GjRGaxoHHHbsX8

Off. site:
https://nugenaudio.com/sigmod/

Haven't dug into it myself though.
SUPER AWESOME! Works great, thanks for the link!
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