Old 08-06-2012, 07:24 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
EVERY implementation I know of (including the Reaper stock one, Klinke's, and mine) uses 14 bit resolution (16,384 in decimal) for faders -- using 2 MIDI messages.
Yeah. AFAIK MCU faders uses midi pitch bend which is 14 bit resolution... so the stuff about needing OSC for 14-bit resolution for faders seems to be mostly fiction.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:00 PM   #82
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I have a subjective impression of MIDI-based controllers and ethernet-based controllers, based on using ethernet controllers for about 13 years and midi based controllers for about six to seven years.

Both perform the same function and are workable. But Midi-based controllers take some getting used to and are less responsive, i.e. less quick.

Midi devices show a considerable latency that ethernet-based controllers do not. I used the original HUI to mix a show for a few months and later an MCU, and it was workable, but it was nowhere near as responsive as a Procontrol or Icon console, nevermind Euphonix or Harrison.

I expect even the cheapest ethernet controllers to vastly outperform Midi-based controllers, if and when responsive controls are a priority. This mostly concerns the use of faders since they permit such a bigger range of motion compared to knobs.

I certainly like the System 5 Euphonix controllers, but have yet to put an Artist series controller to professional use.

One would hope they've improved the protocol over the years, and they probably have. It's interesting to note that Harrison consoles communicate with their DSP cores(often stackable, custom PCs now) via ethernet as well.

It's just the best we've got atm in terms of fader responsiveness, as far as I am aware of.

Geoff, let's hope they felt the same way you did and improved the protocol .
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:37 AM   #83
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This is a very interesting thread. Particularly the Eucon potential, and the contact with Avid regarding the protocol.

I can say from recent personal experience, there are a number of high end studios/engineers/producers experimenting with Reaper at the moment. Control surface support is the most common topic of inquiry that I get from these guys. In many cases, they are ready to make "the switch", but are being held back by the lack of implementation of their particular control surface.

I'm sure that they will be following this topic very closely.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:47 PM   #84
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I'm also very interested on this feature.
I have an Alphatrack (which now is VERY useable with Reaper on a Mac, thanks to the very helpful guys on this forum) that is about to die... and Frontier don't make them anymore... so... I could save some money and go buy one of Euphonix controllers IF Reaper could use all of it's abilities.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:34 PM   #85
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Any news regarding eucon and reaper?
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:03 AM   #86
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Le bump
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:38 PM   #87
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yeah i'll bump this for good measure. need eucon! or I'll have to stay with PT. as of now I can only use reaper on small projects but I prefer it overall.....
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:18 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
I never use price as a factor when making comparisons. In Reapers case, you get waaay more than you pay for. Reapers "price bracket" has nothing to do with anything.

To me Reaper has as much and as many "features" as anything else, including Cubendo, PT, and all those other hi end apps. -Just not on the controller side.
I agree with that, Reaper could easily have cost more than the $600+ "Plow Tools" software "introduction" available for PC. Most who successfully used Reaper would still choose it over "BlowTools", "SampliNude pro X" OR the $3K Seqoya to mention the Three that I personally have embarrassing experiences with, mainly in terms of stability and performance issues, but also in terms of multichannel (7.1 surround sound) AND BUS support or rather the lack, or obmissions thereof. And ProTools have the nerve to boast that they are the Industry leaders?!. That tells me a lot more about this industry than it does about "Protools" which together with Samplitude won't even run without frequent crashes, and sure as hell won't run at all on a slow Netbook / handle it's unusual screen resolution, even for use on a "Consumer basis" since on any normal PC workstation it's Bloatware! I constantly notice how the so called Industry snobs mentions Reaper as if they had a clue about what's important with a DAW, which is being able to handle all resource demanding instruments and effects without crashing 8+ times an hour, OR being forced to purchase dedicated hardware in order for it to do just that!!! My experiences does not include Macintosh versions, which I personally have many other issues with relating back to when it all started. I chose PC's back then and still do because I use it for so many things including all media related production we do, and Investing with Mac systems would just mean, replacing one set of issues for hundreds of others, as I successfully manage to perform the not so unimportant task of controlling our own systems hard and software maintenance...

Oh and why do some attempt to make you purchase a $60.00 USB Dongle just to run their Trial & toss! versions? (ProTools), I mean WTF!!! I call this J-ware for sure, and for this reason alone I wouldn't invest in anything related with these type of Companies...

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:50 AM   #89
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Just a bump to hear/read if we have any news!
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:15 PM   #90
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FWIW, I'd like to see Eucon support also....
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:43 AM   #91
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I jumped to Cubase for the last project for Eucon Support and missed so many of Reaper's features. Reaper would have handled it so well, considering Cubase is crippled by no proper Freeze or Bounce in Place etc.

Jumped back to Reaper and still hoping for Eucon support. I despise Protools and currently am the only retard aiming to do surround and post-production on Reaper.

Once MIDI, Surround and Eucon support reach industry standards, I will never lay eyes on another DAW! Haha!
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:05 AM   #92
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What is the least expensive entry level eucon controller?
I have assumed this would be irrelevant for me because of cost.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:30 AM   #93
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I have the MC Mix and the MC Transport. I mostly work with Stereo Mixing and Mastering and Surround. No editing or post production. I'm also a mouse guy and was never used to mixers. So I've found the MC Transport to be a bit useless. I got these for the other engineers who use my studio for post-production and they use it every bit.

MC Mix is quite nice and integrates very well with the DAW. During the final stages, you can just switch off all your displays and lights and mix and balance perfectly using the MC Mix, control plugin parameters, your inserts and sends etc.

Since, I'm back on Reaper, I'm back to mouse wizardry!
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:25 AM   #94
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So far the Artist 8-fader unit is the least expensive mixing unit. The Transport is somewhat useful, if you can do things with its nice jog wheel.

On one of the most expensive EuCon units, the MC5 Pro, Nuendo users switch a lot of modes for what the jog wheel does, such as "change the start of the item" or "move item" and so on.

Inspired by that I had the crazy idea of "Hold actions", where the user could use the mouse or any other control source to influence parameters for as long as the "hold action" was active or even latched. You'd select an item, hold the action button and move your mouse to change the parameter. Saves you a targeting movement and a click each.

Let's wait and see. It is likely to be implemented if possible, but we don't know when. Until then, keep stating what you want to use it for.

I'm a post production re-recording mixer, and EuCon isn't some prehistoric-speed protocol like MIDI, but more like OSC but with actual hardware available.

I'd be programming buttons to do things like changing automation modes, commiting passes or states(see "Modern Automation Recording" request below for what Commiting is), calling up plugin windows, getting to sends, linking sends(if that ever happens), drilling down VCA group members and much more.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:22 AM   #95
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+ 1
I'm currently testing Reaper as a substitute for Logic. After only 3 days I already love it and don't want to go back. However, I also got addicted to my Artist Mix. Not sure at the moment what is more important to me.
Eucon and Reaper, make love.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:16 PM   #96
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I'm new to Reaper (still evaluating) and so far, really liking what it has to offer. I'm also a control surface kind of guy, and I'd certainly be in favor of a Eucon implementation. A downside to Eucon, depending on your point of view, would be that it would only allow hardware control support from surfaces built by Avid. IMO, the more interesting path would be for the Cockos folks to develop their own protocol that they could provide/license to ANY control surface manufacturer that might want to provide a solution. In fact, under the 'technical' link on their site, it seems to imply that they have an API available for this, or am I reading that wrong?
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:10 PM   #97
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Good news: Of all the daw I tested so far (yeah. Pretty much all of them. Sigh.), I like Reaper best. Not only because it is fast, and not only because it does everything I want, but also because it's just beautiful. Why none of the other vendors ever considered skins is beyond me. And the folks who do those skins are artists themselves!

Bad news: the controller situation. I am on this problem since weeks now. Somewhere I read: Nothing kills the artistic muse as fast as having to walk to the computer, fiddling around with the daw controls and then continue what you intended to do in the first place. (I believe this was something about Frontier Tranzport.)

Couldn't agree more.

So why the hell does Reaper not support modern daw controllers and modern protocols as would suit a modern, fresh code program that explicitly adresses daw refugees?

I want Reaper. And I want the Euphonix gear, esp. that big honkin' jog wheel. I am no assembly programmer, only VB. But if I can somehow help make this happen, please contact me.

The best,
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #98
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Bumpity bump!

Any news on EuCon support guys? Wasn't Schwa trying to get the SDK? Any news?
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:00 PM   #99
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+1 from me
(although I don't have a EuCon-device)
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:43 PM   #100
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No word just yet.

In the meantime you do have options like OSC devices, a bunch of control surfaces and MIDI devices from all over the place.

Apparently we're getting another Mackie Control Protocol plugin, based on Klinkes source code, which will be free. After that, the same person is planning a commercial MCU plugin with additional features.

The EuCon surfaces would be much easier to use, since they have good feedback, and we don't have to set up as much as we do with everything else right now.


What I expect to get out of EuCon is tighter control and access to send and plugin parameters with touch sensitive knobs. I'd really like that.

That said, I'll always enjoy setting up track templates with pre-learned midi knobs for key parameters. It's just not as nice as what touch sensitive knobs with an LCD can do though.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:13 PM   #101
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Default EUCON please

lets Bump
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:29 AM   #102
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I ended up building a complete template in OSC for the iPad (extension of the LogicTemplate) with all my custom shortcuts and mapping. Now, I have to get used to using it.

However, I still have a poor MCMix and Transport staring at me, which would be a lot more convenient to use for the faders. : (

It would be great if one of the staff members provide us with some update, so I can choose whether to sell the Eucon stuff or not.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:36 AM   #103
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Quote:
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Actually there might be touch-screen applications as well in the future.
Now you are talking!
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaaat
It would be great if one of the staff members provide us with some update, so I can choose whether to sell the Eucon stuff or not
The project is underway, so don't think of selling just yet
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:32 PM   #105
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EuCon support has entered the alpha testing phase, and you're coordially invited to throw yourself at this opportunity.

Here's the thread that Geoff Waddington has put up extend the invitation.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122509


You do need EuCon hardware to try this, and it should only be testing on an installation(portable probably) or system separate from your working setup.

Maybe I can borrow a unit from a shop for the weekend. Don't know yet.

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Old 08-03-2013, 07:28 AM   #106
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The control surface plugin for EuCon support is progressing well.

It is now fairly stable and the rough edges have been taken off. It is not ready for production use yet, and we can always use more testers.

Grab it and report your successful use as well as any problems you encounter in this thread.

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Old 04-17-2014, 02:16 PM   #107
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Hope this goes 1.0 soon.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:51 PM   #108
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Quote:
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Hope this goes 1.0 soon.
Are you Guys on EUCON 3.1.2 already or still 2.7?
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by sambosun View Post
Are you Guys on EUCON 3.1.2 already or still 2.7?
2.7 works. For how many 3.1.2 works I have no idea. It requires testing. The EuCon plugin is apparently quite stable, but not part of the Reaper installer just yet.
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:10 PM   #110
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+1 for native, latency free Eucon support
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:48 AM   #111
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Here I am, five years later.
+1 for Eucon! I am trying Pro Tools with an Aritst Mix Right now and it is so insanely good. However PT feels like your Grandma’s old PC compared to Reaper. I would be absolutely willing to pay for a (perfectly working) Eucon plugin. 50$ or even 100$ - it’s that good! Or make it a subscription... :P
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:59 PM   #112
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It already works to the point that Geoff(the author of the Eucon csurf plugin) is using it with his own Artist gear.

If I can scrounge up a cheap Artist Mix, maybe I will too.

The Pro Tools Control app is a EuCon app basically, but since we can bind practically everything to midi, osc, game controllers, computer keyboards and basically waving knickers in front of a camera, I don't see too much of a need for it.

Has anyone tried the S1 or S40 with this yet ?
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:35 AM   #113
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Since the S1 is basically an Artist Mix with an iPad stand attached (plus a few user buttons) I guess it should work the same. The fact that Avid attached an iPad stand to it shows how important the app is to their concept. IMO it converts a Faderbank into a small console and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of know-how they gathered with their Venue series went into it. I am most excited about VCA Spill and I am almost sure I can get sends on faders to work. It definitely works from the surface. Of course I don’t NEED this, but do I want it? OH YES! So much that I am looking into another DAW that feels like Windows XP am has the support of it - none.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Geoff did some tremendous work, but I think this level of integration should be done officially until it’s right. They should just hire him

As of now no metering is a downer but non recognized faders (at 0db) are a dealbreaker for me, call it OCD. Sends and lots of other details aren’t implemented yet - as he wrote himself: it’s still an alpha version. And too much work for one guy who doesn’t get payed in my opinion.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:15 AM   #114
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Yeah, it's a bit of a shame.

They did hire Geoff to write the Eucon support as it stands now, iirc. Could be wrong.

Clearly CSI is the way to go, so now that beta status has just started, things are moving fairly quickly, but I too agree that if Cockos can't do this by themselves, one additional programmer who just like them is also a user of this whole thing called Reaper, should join their ranks to take care of controller/user interaction.

Back when MCU support was first implemented, it seems that Mackie basically blew Cockos off after they asked for help, so the MCU driver stagnated. Now I can't even flip the fucking sends on to the faders and do a pass at my send levels.

That's what CSI can do. I've already done it with my Presonus Faderport 16, and it's damn easy to do with MCU gear as well.


Reaper has to accomodate gear like Eucon surfaces for professionals who have invested in to this gear to be taken seriously. Some setup for such things has to be done by the developer, and they have for quite a few.

The fact that this Eucon driver does not come with Reaper itself is a bit of a bummer, as Reaper is all about choice. Eucon is one of the big standards. Cockos didn't do basic midi feedback for midi devices, so they do need help IMHO because everybody else saw how important it was and has it(except Avid).

+1 to hiring Geoff and/or someone like him for controller/user interaction stuff. This is one of the next frontiers for Reaper.
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