Old 01-29-2020, 10:23 AM   #1
Mr. PC
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Default Subtract Room IR from recording?

Room calibration


Could I not using Sonarworks or something similar to do a Sine-Sweep, then *subtract* the room from the recording using the IR?

Keeping the mic in the exact same place, and putting the sweep speaker in the same place as the instrument being recorded?


Would the result be a flat and/or an-echoic sound?
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:12 AM   #2
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Try it.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:07 AM   #3
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Interesting idea... Flat could be.. anechoic no.
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Old 01-30-2020, 04:09 AM   #4
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... apart from anything else, I guess this would be SO sensitive to the positioning of the source, speaker and mic. Also to the emission pattern / directivity of the source and speaker. But try it. Could be an interesting effect.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:02 AM   #5
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Indeed. For true anechoic recording just record normally and the apply this VST:
http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=5 😊

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:35 AM   #6
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Nope.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:51 AM   #7
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Sonaworks works with frequency/phase alignment between you and the speakers.You cannot have on IRs that, they are snapshots of the room in the time domain not the phase domain.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:11 AM   #8
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seems like you are after deconvolutio. Here is a discussion of the difficulties https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-b...nvolution.html There are siimilar discussion on gearslutz and plenty of other places

companies now seem to be going the blind deconvolution / blind source separation route

eg Zynaptiq UNVEIL and UNFILTER

but what you want to do - give yourself a better room - is not that easy and more practically done by

1. getting to know your room and compensating
2. getting good headphones and near field monitors and not monitoring too loud
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. PC View Post
Room calibration

Could I not using Sonarworks or something similar to do a Sine-Sweep, then *subtract* the room from the recording using the IR?
Keeping the mic in the exact same place, and putting the sweep speaker in the same place as the instrument being recorded?
Would the result be a flat and/or an-echoic sound?
You can compensate: Frequencies and freqency-resonances of your room.

You cannot compensate: Reflections of your room.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:28 AM   #10
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People spend a lot of time & money on acoustic treatments for their rooms. I suspect that if "IR subtraction" worked, the Studio Designers Union would be campaigning to have it banned.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:16 PM   #11
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Yep, this goes into my pile of impractical ideas.
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Old 02-06-2020, 08:58 PM   #12
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I asked a similar question in the remote forum at GS and got some interesting responses - you may want to read that discussion.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remo...n-process.html

In the end, for my particular problem, trying to remove the “small room” sound in my studio, I purchased a copy of Acon Deverberate which actually works fairly well. There is a nice thread about using it, along with samples, at GS.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remo...verberate.html
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Old 02-07-2020, 06:10 AM   #13
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You can knock up a couple of quite large gobos, or a low-end vocal booth for what a "deverberator" would cost. Obv, if you're trying to clean an existing recording...
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:19 AM   #14
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

As always, the question was a combination of curiosity... just a theoretical "what-if", but also with some possibility of using it real-world.

Interesting about the police using the de-convolution technique in that link. So I'm not totally crazy... but now as always there's the fear that the technology could fall into the wrong hands.
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:55 AM   #15
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RealTraps.com has some good information on measuring/treating/calibrating your room & speakers.


EQ can help a lot and it's usually part of the solution but it can't fix a standing node where the waves cancel, because it would take almost infinitely-large woofers and infinite amplifiers. That's where a bass trap helps because it reduces the reflected soundwaves. EQ can reduce an anti-node (a bump in frequency response) but it won't eliminate any ringing at that frequency.


Of course, you run into a similar issue if you try to boost the deep bass below the limits of the monitor because you end-up distorting the amplifier & speaker.


EQ also doesn't work perfectly well at higher frequencies where just moving your head slightly can change the phase-interaction of the direct & reflected sounds. Again, sound absorption will help to reduce the reflections as will "near field" monitoring, simply because you get a higher percentage of direct sound.
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