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Old 11-30-2018, 09:47 AM   #1
sjs94704
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Default Is there a 'Song Key' conversion chart available online?

What I mean is that I have the WAVES Tune Real-Time plugin that I am using on my vocal track and it's successful use is dependent on knowing the key that the song is in.

I get pre-recorded music that I sing to. I determine the key I want to download the song in, for example the key of 'G'.

So, my question is, if after loading the song I realize it is either too high or low and I use the reaPitch to shift the song in semitones, is there a chart that I can refer to so if I adjust it up by one semitone then I will know what the key of the song is now in?

Is there a reference chart available so I can quickly find the new key after making such an adjustment?
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:29 AM   #2
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Yes. It is called solfege. Musical alphabet.

C C#(or Db) D Eb E F F# (Gb) G G# (or Ab) A Bb(or A#) B and back to C.

This is a chromatic scale, each step is one semitone (half-step)

Hope this helps
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:05 AM   #3
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If you know the original key, and you know the number of semitones you transpose it, then you know the new key. And ivansc gave the "table" necessary to determine that.

Why would you need a website for this?
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:21 AM   #4
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As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, solfege is more correctly the assignation of syllables to scale degrees, do-re-mi etc., not really related to keys. And in the chromatic scale, where there are different ways to call a note, it usually makes more sense to use one way over another as a key signature, for instance D flat major rather than C sharp major, so you don't have to have 7 sharps and confusing stuff like E sharp aka F in the 3rd and B sharp aka C in the 7th, or Ab rather than G# so you don't have to have F## in the 7th.

So for major keys I'd go with: C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B
With relative minors of: Am Bbm Bm Cm C#m Dm Ebm Em Fm F#m Gm G#m

So if a song's in C, you want to bring it down a whole tone, you end up in Bb. Etc.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
What I mean is that I have the WAVES Tune Real-Time plugin that I am using on my vocal track and it's successful use is dependent on knowing the key that the song is in.

I get pre-recorded music that I sing to. I determine the key I want to download the song in, for example the key of 'G'.

So, my question is, if after loading the song I realize it is either too high or low and I use the reaPitch to shift the song in semitones, is there a chart that I can refer to so if I adjust it up by one semitone then I will know what the key of the song is now in?

Is there a reference chart available so I can quickly find the new key after making such an adjustment?
It's as simple as knowing the alphabet and remembering that there are no sharps/flats between E and F and B and C.

So, for your example, if the original key is G major and you raise it a semitone, the new key will be A major.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:36 AM   #6
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So, for your example, if the original key is G major and you raise it a semitone, the new key will be A major.
So not so easy then . Are you sure G + 1 semitone isn't A flat major or maybe G sharp major, depending on your naming preference?

I'm pretty sure you really knew that, but it does show that it's easy to get it wrong.

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Old 12-05-2018, 04:39 AM   #7
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So not so easy then . Are you sure G + 1 semitone isn't A flat major or maybe G sharp major, depending on your naming preference?

Steve
Haha! I should make sure I have more sleep before I post!
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:49 AM   #8
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Here you go. Select this text, paste into Notepad, and print it. Then cut it vertically into 2 strips. Slip one strip up or down to get the new key next to the key you are in. You might want to add in the aliases for the sharps and flats (A#= Bb, etc.). Instant translation table! Sort of a slide rule for key changing.

Orig-----New
Key------Key
A ------ A
Bb.------ Bb
B ------ B
C ------- C
C# ------ C#
D. ------ D
Eb ------ Eb
E ------ E
F ------ F
F# ------ F#
G ------ G
G# ------ G#
A ------ A
Bb ------ Bb
B. ------ B
C. ------ C
C# ------ C#
D ------ D
Eb ------ Eb
E. ------ E
F. ------ F
F# ------ F#
G ------ G
G# ------ G#

Alternatively, there is this:
http://www.simusic.com/transpose.html
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:10 AM   #9
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As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, solfege is more correctly the assignation of syllables to scale degrees
Quite right - I picked up the word while teaching music in France - in the UK we used to call that tonic solfa IIR.

Couldn`t think of what to call it & "solfege" just popped into my head. But that key listing I did is, of course, both correct and the easiest way to work out key changes by interval movements.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:15 AM   #10
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Thanks, Everyone! Got It!
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick View Post
Are you sure G + 1 semitone isn't A flat major or maybe G sharp major...
You are correct. If you start on G and move up one semitone it is quite definitely A flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
it usually makes more sense to use one way over another as a key signature, for instance D flat major rather than C sharp major, so you don't have to have 7 sharps and confusing stuff like E sharp aka F in the 3rd and B sharp aka C in the 7th, or Ab rather than G# so you don't have to have F## in the 7th.
Well, there are good reasons we choose one or the other. Yes, we want to avoid double sharps (or double flats), so Ab rather than G# is correct.

But we also want to avoid having two notes with the same letter name, partly because that makes the key signature on the notation staff impossible.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:23 AM   #12
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For the purposes of Waves Tune, all you have to do is count up or down in semitones on the drop-down key picker. Sharps or flats are irrelevant for this.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:45 AM   #13
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For me making errors in this sort of transposition was (is!) a great opportunity for ear training!
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:45 AM   #14
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But we also want to avoid having two notes with the same letter name, partly because that makes the key signature on the notation staff impossible.
Yup. Point I was trying to make, somewhat confusingly I guess, is that musicians usually don't want to think of for instance the note a semitone above B as "B sharp", they want to think of it as of course C, but if you use keys like C#, then as you note (note, heheh) you do end up with that kind of thing.

Quote:
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For the purposes of Waves Tune, all you have to do is count up or down in semitones on the drop-down key picker. Sharps or flats are irrelevant for this.
LOL! Nice one. On the one hand I guess it seems to me like it's a good idea for a musician to know what key they're in and how and why that is, but on the other, to quote a famous dead guy, oh well, whatever, never mind.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:56 PM   #15
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:37 PM   #16
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^^^That's a circle of fifths. Every "step" in each ring is 7 semitones. Divide by twelve and take the remainder, and then...


:/
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:54 PM   #17
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Every step clockwise is a fifth. Every step counter clockwise is a 4th. That alone is enough to keep you in 12 and 16 bar blues in any key forever.

Move in and it's the sixth, or relative minor. Move in from the IV and you are at the minor second. That alone is enough to keep you in progressive jazz sets in any key forever.

If you're trying to transpose, this is the easiest and simplest tool you have available. I think it would make a pretty cool tattoo.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:03 PM   #18
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Every step clockwise is a fifth. Every step counter clockwise is a 4th. That alone is enough to keep you in 12 and 16 bar blues in any key forever.

Move in and it's the sixth, or relative minor. Move in from the IV and you are at the minor second. That alone is enough to keep you in progressive jazz sets in any key forever.

If you're trying to transpose, this is the easiest and simplest tool you have available. I think it would make a pretty cool tattoo.
K. So we're in G. We transpose it up one semitone. What key are we in? How do you get that out of what you've posted?
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:14 PM   #19
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K. So we're in G. We transpose it up one semitone. What key are we in? How do you get that out of what you've posted?
A flat major is five steps counterclockwise. From there you can get your VI, V, ii, and everything else you need to play in key. Thats what you get out of what I posted.

And for those wondering why A flat major and not G sharp major, it's because A flat is keyed with four flat symbols, while G sharp is keyed with six sharps and a double sharp.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:59 PM   #20
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OK, lets try to narrow this down a bit.

Remember, I do NOT know how to read music at all!

Here is a link to a song I am going to record for Christmas:

https://www.karaoke-version.com/cust...tmas-song.html

I realized that as far as the key is concerned, to the left of the DOWNLOAD button is where I find the key of the song and if I adjust the pitch up or down before I download it, it gives me the new key that the song is in ....FANTASTIC !!!

However, remembering I do not know how to read music, based on the information provided on the screen for this song, how can I determine what SCALE it is in?

I want to say a HUGE Thank You to all of you who contributed, and I know that many of you say it's easy, but, at the moment for me it is not and to be honest it makes my head spin !!! For me it is just very confusing....

So, the ONLY reason that scale is important is because Waves Tune Real-Time asks for that information.

My goal here is not to learn to read music, but, only to be able to know the scale of the song! nothing more or less!
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:41 PM   #21
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It's either major or minor and if it doesn't say, it's probably major
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:00 PM   #22
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Het, Ashcat !

Thanks a lot! That is very helpful .......
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:57 AM   #23
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It's either major or minor and if it doesn't say, it's probably major
LOL true, but to refine and focus that a bit... on your download page, it says key of Db. This means key of Db major, the major part is usually assumed rather than stated outright. The scale for Db major is... Db major! Or just enter major, if that's what the program is asking for.

If it were a minor key, it might say Db minor, or that might be noted as Dbm. The scale for Db minor is Db minor, or again just minor if that's what the program wants. Now here with minor keys it gets a little tricky, because there are variations of the minor scale, for instance the harmonic minor, which has a raised 7 to make the 5 chord major, which is a much stronger and more satisfying sound in the 5 chord so it's usually done that way. Point being, if you're in a minor key, and it kinda seems like something's a little off with the autotune, maybe try the variations of the minor scale starting with the harmonic.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:53 PM   #24
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i agree with the third reply
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:56 AM   #25
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So, the ONLY reason that scale is important is because Waves Tune Real-Time asks for that information.
Perhaps it would help if you told us what options it gives you for "Scale" because most of us probably don't have that VST and it might help us to work out what exactly Waves think that "Scale" means.

Steve
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:30 PM   #26
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Perhaps it would help if you told us what options it gives you for "Scale" because most of us probably don't have that VST and it might help us to work out what exactly Waves think that "Scale" means.

Steve
I can do that, but, there are probably what looks like about 15-20+ choices..... It is 1:30 PM PST on 12-11-18 and I have a meeting now, but, when I get back I will post the choices per your request....
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