Stereo Compression

[Coachz]

This video speaks of a stereo compressor being used on 2 guitars and gluing them together. So is it the threshold is activated by both so tends to push whichever channel is too loud thereby gluing them?

https://youtu.be/fpb3KpWVWKw?t=588

[karbomusic]

I think so, probably easy to test.

[karbomusic]

I'm not sure what practical difference it makes, how much difference do you hear? Not the same riff as the video but same idea...

1. Stereo track of two performances as L/R through a stereo compressor - either channel triggers compression on both L & R:

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/stereocompressed.wav

2. Same tracks through a dual mono setup with identical settings - each side only triggers it's own side of the compressor only:

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/du...compressed.wav

I'm compression off about 7 dB off of each FWIW - it may make more difference the cleaner the tone but if it get's much cleaner it'll be too clean. I would think dual mono would be more even but I'm not hearing that much difference when comparing them.

[Judders]

What are your attack and release times at, Karbo?

In my experience, a summed-to-mono detection circuit can glue double tracked, panned guitars when using slowish attack and fast release. It helps to shape their attack portions in common so that they sound more like a single source.

Dual mono compressors keep the sense of width better, but at the expense of the phantom centre moving (not likely to be an issue with two guitars in unison, but a potential problem for a drum bus or whole mix).

[karbomusic]

I set them kind of fast to give more chance to react/recover loosely based on the cadence of the rhythm - it's the CLA 1176 so it doesn't have precise times and clockwise = faster - that seemed more obvious to my ear but maybe I was wrong. Either way, I'm interested in demonstrable results. It's possible it's more prevalent in context where there are other elements to poke out from or under.

I'm not really sure the mention in the video of using a stereo compressor is the thing that is being heard per se but.. I could see setting attack/release to interact properly might or again, doesn't matter much until in context and competing with other tracks.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I set them kind of fast to give more chance to react/recover loosely based on the cadence of the rhythm - it's the CLA 1176 so it doesn't have precise times and clockwise = faster - that seemed more obvious to my ear but maybe I was wrong. Either way, I'm interested in demonstrable results. It's possible it's more prevalent in context where there are other elements to poke out from or under.

I'm not really sure the mention in the video of using a stereo compressor is the thing that is being heard per se but.. I could see setting attack/release to interact properly might or again, doesn't matter much until in context and competing with other tracks.

Can't post an example right now, but it's when you hit it hard with a slower attack to get the bark from the guitars. Most obvious with choppy guitar parts.

I'm away from home and then moving house, so I won't be able to post any examples for a week or two, unfortunately.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Judders

Can't post an example right now, but it's when you hit it hard with a slower attack to get the bark from the guitars. Most obvious with choppy guitar parts.

I'm away from home and then moving house, so I won't be able to post any examples for a week or two, unfortunately.

I can just readjust the ones I have, thanks for the offer.

[Judders]

Oh, and for dual mono shifting the centre, try a full mix with a loud intermittent element on one side. You should hear the snare moving around a bit (presuming its panned to the centre).

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Judders

Oh, and for dual mono shifting the centre, try a full mix with a loud intermittent element on one side. You should hear the snare moving around a bit (presuming its panned to the centre).

Thanks, wasn't worried too much about that, really just the comment in the video that the "stereo compressor" made those double-tracked guitars tighter. I used both stereo and dual mono because the vid doesn't mention which. I think it's more of the performance tbh.

[Coachz]

I would think dual mono would make more sense because if the guitars are pretty tight already and one pops up a little bit you don't want it to get pushd down and at the same time push the other guitar down that was already close in level

[karbomusic]

^I would think the same. Much longer attack/release times:

1. Stereo compressed long.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/st...ressedlong.wav

2. Dual mono compressed long.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/du...ressedlong.wav

[Judders]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

^I would think the same. Much longer attack/release times:

1. Stereo compressed long.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/st...ressedlong.wav

2. Dual mono compressed long.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/du...ressedlong.wav

Yup, that was what I was talking about. The low end attack is more "as one" in the stereo version. The dual mono guitars sound more distinct and discreet.

That's what I hear, anyway.

[Coachz]

All 4 sound good to me ! he he

[karbomusic]

I didn't notice any credible differences (maybe better worded as relevant) personally. I'll have to go back and see if I hear what Judders mentioned. I suppose I should "split in" both types to a single file and see who can find the transitions - not that I don't trust Judders, I just find it a good test of relevancy for small differences like this - similar to my YT vs Soundcloud thread.

Off topic: So no one noticed/knows where that riff is from? Judders would probably never know being somewhat regional but nevertheless a really great band.

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by Coachz

I would think dual mono would make more sense because if the guitars are pretty tight already and one pops up a little bit you don't want it to get pushd down and at the same time push the other guitar down that was already close in level

I would have to think that if that is the scenario then you should be fixing it in the mix and not with a compressor. I've always been from the train of thought that you always use a stereo compressor for a stereo mix and a mono compressor for a mono track and fix things at the source if the mix isn't right on a stereo mix.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I didn't notice any credible differences (maybe better worded as relevant) personally. I'll have to go back and see if I hear what Judders mentioned. I suppose I should "split in" both types to a single file and see who can find the transitions - not that I don't trust Judders, I just find it a good test of relevancy for small differences like this - similar to my YT vs Soundcloud thread.

Off topic: So no one noticed/knows where that riff is from? Judders would probably never know being somewhat regional but nevertheless a really great band.

well you're going to say that riff is custard pie by Led Zeppelin and I'm going to say that riff is Mickey's Monkeys by Mother's Finest since I've seen Mother's Finest twice in the last year and the only time I saw Led Zeppelin was in 1977 and I was drunk and vomiting in the Atlanta Omni. We drove 3 hours from Spartanburg to Atlanta and filled up on Malt Liquor bull. stupid kids! I missed the whole entire concert. luckily I've done dummer things so that it's no longer hang up

Glue with guitars is a great topic to me and it seems to me that having individual compressors would give the best glue because once you establish a baseline level between the two of them you're just really trying to push down peaks. I use AC DC albums as references because they usually have just one guitar in each channel but are very tight sounding. if I already have two guitars that are matched pretty well in level I don't think I want a mono summed compressor because then both guitars are going to get pushed down when either one of them has a peak. For glue in my mind individual compressors for each guitar seem to make the most sense if there's any compression being done at all.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

well you're going to say that riff is custard pie by Led Zeppelin and I'm going to say that riff is Mickey's Monkeys by Mother's Finest

Nope, I'm going to say Mickey's Monkey because I saw them live in 1980 in their heyday - it was general admission and my chest was against the barrier front of stage - I was a fan of them since the late '70s. That was my hint about Judders possibly not knowing - because they were 'generally' regional to the Southeast US.

I agree with the dual mono glue thing but the comment in the video is slightly unclear - it sounds like reminiscing and doesn't say whether it was dual mono or stereo but the result explained implies dual mono.

[Coachz]

Yeah I agree about the video being vague. Mother's Finest is going to be in Charlotte August 9th. damn good show for about 30 bucks

http://www.mothersfinest.com/

Another great show in charlotte sept 7th. Spyro gyra!

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Glue with guitars is a great topic to me and it seems to me that having individual compressors would give the best glue because once you establish a baseline level between the two of them you're just really trying to push down peaks. I use AC DC albums as references because they usually have just one guitar in each channel but are very tight sounding. if I already have two guitars that are matched pretty well in level I don't think I want a mono summed compressor because then both guitars are going to get pushed down when either one of them has a peak. For glue in my mind individual compressors for each guitar seem to make the most sense if there's any compression being done at all.

But AC/DC use two separate guitar parts rather than panned double-tracked. I would handle the two differently.

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Nope, I'm going to say Mickey's Monkey because I saw them live in 1980 in their heyday - it was general admission and my chest was against the barrier front of stage - I was a fan of them since the late '70s. That was my hint about Judders possibly not knowing - because they were 'generally' regional to the Southeast US.

Nope, never heard of them! It's a cool riff though.

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I agree with the dual mono glue thing but the comment in the video is slightly unclear - it sounds like reminiscing and doesn't say whether it was dual mono or stereo but the result explained implies dual mono.

I saw a video with CLA recently where he was talking about the same thing. He used a plugin emulation of the blue stripe 1176 (the Slate one, in this instance), to get the attack of double-tracked guitars (might even have been quad-tracked) working together. Slowest attack, fastest release.

[Coachz]

Judders, how would you handle the 2 AC/DC guitars?

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Judders, how would you handle the 2 AC/DC guitars?

I'd either compress them separately on their own channel, or I'd use a dual mono compressor if sending them through a bus, because I would want them to remain distinct.

[karbomusic]

Here's one file with stereo, dual, and no compression switching randomly between the three. I don't hear much practical value unless the guitars are much cleaner but just my take on it.

http://wallsonic.com/public/posts/Du...NoneRandom.wav

There is a different way I can approach this, maybe later if I'm bored since it's a bit tedious to do in general.

[karbomusic]

I noticed in the video he said about the stereo compressor and Joe/Brad... "they affect each other" so in that regard they would have to be stereo and not dual mono.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Judders

I'd either compress them separately on their own channel, or I'd use a dual mono compressor if sending them through a bus, because I would want them to remain distinct.

Same here

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I noticed in the video he said about the stereo compressor and Joe/Brad... "they affect each other" so in that regard they would have to be stereo and not dual mono.

He might be referring to the compressor turning both down when one peaks.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Judders

I'd either compress them separately on their own channel, or I'd use a dual mono compressor if sending them through a bus, because I would want them to remain distinct.

Separate or dual mono is probably what I would do. I wouldn't want a part that doesn't need to be backed off to have it's volume level reduced because another part does. If you were compressing below a nominal level though, you might make the other part stick out more when the compression kicks in, and stereo might make sense then so the volume relationship between the two parts stays more constant.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Coachz

He might be referring to the compressor turning both down when one peaks.

Yea, but that's just both lower and of course not dual mono like I'd expect.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Yea, but that's just both lower and of course not dual mono like I'd expect.

Right you are

[cassembler]

Worth pondering might be a side chain to a stereo bus compressor to duck for vocals, etc. Similar argument could be made though (individual mono vs stereo).

Not sure I ever thought about it much frankly, my mixes tend to have bigger problems

[karbomusic]

By the way, farking around yesterday... This setup sounds a lot like the recording above in question based on the description in the video - except I used a royer 121 instead of a Sony condenser since it's warm and that was the explanation for using the Sony...

I was going to post a sample, but until/unless I can get the feel/swing/bounce right for Walk This Way (which is the exact thing that matters), I'm not gonna...