Keylab MK II or Nektar Panorama for Reaper?

[pax-eterna]

Which one is best for integration with Reaper?

I have read that the Panorama was actually created with Reaper in mind for control, but I'm not sure if that is just "internet hype" haha!

I'd be interested in views on this as I have both but one has to go. I have not started using Reaper yet, so I'd like to "start as I plan to finish" so to speak.

Thanks

[pax-eterna]

*bump*

Sorry to bump but I need some thoughts on this soon as I can, thanks

[pax-eterna]

107 people looked at the thread an no-one has any idea on this? Impressive, these must be pretty obscure keyboards then

[Glennbo]

I don't anything about either of those models you mentioned, but I keep looking at this one for myself.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ard-controller

One thing I'd want to know before buying any new midi keyboard (including the one I linked above) is, how well does it work if there is no driver installed. I've seen too many people end up with useless hardware when the manufacturer stops supporting it and it won't work on newer OSs. IMO the fewer tentacles they have in their driver to make the keyboard function, the better. If it is USB Class Compliant and exposes all functions with no driver, even better.

[lunker]

If it were me, I'd keep both keyboards until I tried each one of them with Reaper, and *then* decide which one to get rid of.

Otherwise, you're just relying on random people's opinions. Take each one for a test drive, and form your own opinion.

If you really *must* get rid of one before you try them with Reaper, I like my Keylab MkII. I don't have the Nektar keyboard, so can't comment on it.

[pax-eterna]

Originally Posted by lunker

If it were me, I'd keep both keyboards until I tried each one of them with Reaper, and *then* decide which one to get rid of.

Otherwise, you're just relying on random people's opinions. Take each one for a test drive, and form your own opinion.

If you really *must* get rid of one before you try them with Reaper, I like my Keylab MkII. I don't have the Nektar keyboard, so can't comment on it.

Yeah, that's pretty sound (no pun) I think I might do that...wouldn't be too difficult I guess to do quick setups with either.

[pax-eterna]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I don't anything about either of those models you mentioned, but I keep looking at this one for myself.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ard-controller

One thing I'd want to know before buying any new midi keyboard (including the one I linked above) is, how well does it work if there is no driver installed. I've seen too many people end up with useless hardware when the manufacturer stops supporting it and it won't work on newer OSs. IMO the fewer tentacles they have in their driver to make the keyboard function, the better. If it is USB Class Compliant and exposes all functions with no driver, even better.

Yeah both are class compliant - tried em both in windows and on iOS, just not with Reaper yet

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by pax-eterna

Yeah both are class compliant - tried em both in windows and on iOS, just not with Reaper yet

If they both expose all their bells and whistles with no driver needed, then whichever has the feature set and layout would be the determining factor for me. REAPER ought to be able to use anything they can transmit.

[pax-eterna]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

If they both expose all their bells and whistles with no driver needed, then whichever has the feature set and layout would be the determining factor for me. REAPER ought to be able to use anything they can transmit.

thanks Glennbo - really, the only reason I am asking this at all, is I read that apparently Nektar created the Panorama with Reaper in mind...might just be one of those urban myths I guess hahaha!

[mozart999uk]

I have the Panorama P6 working with Reaper.

It seems to offer about the same functionality as it did with Cubase.

The only niggle for me is turning the knobs often produces very jumpy behaviour in reaper. Using the send knobs for example.

I don't mean parameter jump but actual large jumps in values as you turn the knob. Also the display on the p6 doesn't always match up to what is happening in reaper.

I've contacted Nektar who initially blamed reaper but have now accepted it's a problem their end. I don't hold out much hope of a fix though. They don't seem to have updated the P6 for ages.,......

[fsynth]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I don't anything about either of those models you mentioned, but I keep looking at this one for myself.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ard-controller

One thing I'd want to know before buying any new midi keyboard (including the one I linked above) is, how well does it work if there is no driver installed. I've seen too many people end up with useless hardware when the manufacturer stops supporting it and it won't work on newer OSs. IMO the fewer tentacles they have in their driver to make the keyboard function, the better. If it is USB Class Compliant and exposes all functions with no driver, even better.

I have had the Lx88+ for a little over a year it is class compliant and can be used right out the box. For the transport controls to work they do have a script for Reaper control surfaces. Nice keyboard for the price, if money were no issue I might have looked elsewhere but am enjoying the lx88. Replaced a Roland A30 76 key controller that I bought in around 1991.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by fsynth

I have had the Lx88+ for a little over a year it is class compliant and can be used right out the box. For the transport controls to work they do have a script for Reaper control surfaces. Nice keyboard for the price, if money were no issue I might have looked elsewhere but am enjoying the lx88. Replaced a Roland A30 76 key controller that I bought in around 1991.

Thanks for that info. My current keyboard is a sooper vintage "MidiMan" branded Keystation 61 from before they became M-Audio. I have an Akai MPD26 to the left of the Keystation and it's a bit cramped, as you can see.

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/52/img...205_808451.jpg

An 88 key with pitch and mod wheels, plus some sliders and pads would be a better fit, and give me the lower octave for pianos.

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I don't anything about either of those models you mentioned, but I keep looking at this one for myself.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ard-controller

One thing I'd want to know before buying any new midi keyboard (including the one I linked above) is, how well does it work if there is no driver installed. I've seen too many people end up with useless hardware when the manufacturer stops supporting it and it won't work on newer OSs. IMO the fewer tentacles they have in their driver to make the keyboard function, the better. If it is USB Class Compliant and exposes all functions with no driver, even better.

Crap! All the research I did & failed to run across this one. My old MAudio Axiom died and I ended up replacing it with a Novation SL Mk III. At like twice the price. I'm sure the price was heavily influenced by features I'll never use but this was the only controller I found that had the features, more or less, that I wanted.

But then looking closer the Necktar lacks jacks for sustain and expression pedals. Oh well ...

As to the OP, as you agreed, Lunker has a good line of logic.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Softshell

Crap! All the research I did & failed to run across this one. My old MAudio Axiom died and I ended up replacing it with a Novation SL Mk III. At like twice the price. I'm sure the price was heavily influenced by features I'll never use but this was the only controller I found that had the features, more or less, that I wanted.

But then looking closer the Necktar lacks jacks for sustain and expression pedals. Oh well ...

As to the OP, as you agreed, Lunker has a good line of logic.

Holy crap, your keyboard has two sets of gate, mod and CV inputs. What can you do with that? Plug in a couple of old analog synthesizers that have sequencers and your keyboard turns it into midi out?

My current MidiMan Keystation 61 only has a damper pedal input, so I wouldn't be missing anything there. I use the faders on my Akai to control the drawbars on the B4 Organ, and I use the pads to tap out scratch drums to use as my metronome when composing. The faders and pads on the Nektar could replace the Akai and give me more keyboard.

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Holy crap, your keyboard has two sets of gate, mod and CV inputs. What can you do with that? Plug in a couple of old analog synthesizers that have sequencers and your keyboard turns it into midi out?

Yeah, if I only HAD a couple of old analog synthesizers. It also has it's own sequencer and arpeggiator but I pretty much already have all that with Reaper. I tried programming a couple of VST's with varying success. If I was 40 years younger mebbe I could figger it out

Originally Posted by Glennbo

My current MidiMan Keystation 61 only has a damper pedal input, so I wouldn't be missing anything there. I use the faders on my Akai to control the drawbars on the B4 Organ, and I use the pads to tap out scratch drums to use as my metronome when composing. The faders and pads on the Nektar could replace the Akai and give me more keyboard.

Well I use both damper and expression pedals so the lack thereof was one factor that ruled out a few candidates. The main thing that narrowed it down was reliance on the funky little USB plug to transmit MIDI data. The old Axiom silly little mini USB jack got loose and would lose connection. Had to save the project as it was, exit REAPER & reboot to get it back only to have it crap out a couple minutes later. I finally got a power supply and a MIDI cable and all was well. Until recently when the whole deal went wonky sending a continuous stream of random CC's including Volume and ENV release. So I guess it's just a large paperweight now. But that's another story. Back to the main point. Seems that not that many controllers these days have provision for a wall wart. A number of them don't even have MIDI ports. Why do all of the controllers use that crappy mini USB connection? You can't tell me that there isn't room or it's too expensive to put a real USB jack on a $750 unit. Sorry.

Another thing I needed was the fader/ Drawbars. This ended up being a compromise. Most available contenders only have 8 faders. Sorry again, Hammonds have 9 drawbars on each rank. And most of these controllers including the SL Mk III put the faders towards the right side of the keyboard. There's a good reason why Lauren placed them on the far left. So there's the compromise. Many controllers today, even some high end ones, have no faders at all so the field quickly became even narrower.

Pads I could care less about although I like your idea of using them for a quick disposable click track. Anyway after checking out as many different controllers as I ran across, comparing features, reading reviews, etc, it came down to the Novation being the only one acceptable. With a couple compromises that make me grind my teeth but whatcha gonna do? Wasn't at all happy about the cost realizing most of that was paying for stuff I didn't care about but in the end I said "Fook it" and went for it. Gotta say it's a real nice keypad, way better than the old MAudio so there's that.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Softshell

Yeah, if I only HAD a couple of old analog synthesizers. It also has it's own sequencer and arpeggiator but I pretty much already have all that with Reaper. I tried programming a couple of VST's with varying success. If I was 40 years younger mebbe I could figger it out

I used to have a PAIA patchbay synth that I could link up to my Oberheim TVS, which also had it's own sequencer, and do some real trick arpeggiation stuff, as well as real large synth sounds.

Well I use both damper and expression pedals so the lack thereof was one factor that ruled out a few candidates.

If I had a midi expression pedal I would instantly be using it, but more likely to do stuff like control a wah in Guitar Rig, or filter sweeps. Prolly even assign it to work the pedal on the B4.

The main thing that narrowed it down was reliance on the funky little USB plug to transmit MIDI data. The old Axiom silly little mini USB jack got loose and would lose connection. Had to save the project as it was, exit REAPER & reboot to get it back only to have it crap out a couple minutes later. I finally got a power supply and a MIDI cable and all was well. Until recently when the whole deal went wonky sending a continuous stream of random CC's including Volume and ENV release. So I guess it's just a large paperweight now. But that's another story.

Interesting chain of events and similar to where my MidiMan Keystation 61 is today. About six years ago in the deep of Winter I sat down to play some keys and was so charged with static electricity that a jillion volt arc popped from my leg through the desk and into the Keystation. Windows, which I used at the time instantly popped up the message "Unrecognized USB Device" and it was smoked. The next day I plugged a midi cable in and found it could still be powered by USB and transmit over old school 5-pin midi. Six years later and I'm wishing it would die the rest of the way so I would have an excuse to upgrade.

Back to the main point. Seems that not that many controllers these days have provision for a wall wart. A number of them don't even have MIDI ports. Why do all of the controllers use that crappy mini USB connection? You can't tell me that there isn't room or it's too expensive to put a real USB jack on a $750 unit. Sorry.

I prefer having a real midi port, and the Nektar 88 key does have one. I still have a Sequential Circuits Prophet 2002 rack mount sampler that I might wanna hook back up some day, and my V-Drums brain was made before USB midi was being used on them.

Another thing I needed was the fader/ Drawbars. This ended up being a compromise. Most available contenders only have 8 faders. Sorry again, Hammonds have 9 drawbars on each rank. And most of these controllers including the SL Mk III put the faders towards the right side of the keyboard. There's a good reason why Lauren placed them on the far left. So there's the compromise. Many controllers today, even some high end ones, have no faders at all so the field quickly became even narrower.

I had thought about the positioning of faders for use with Hammonds, and I had noticed that the Nektar has them more to the left, but not all the way, but if the real length of a Hammond keyboard is assigned to start at the top note, then the faders are in a pretty usable place since the bottom of the keyboard would be below a Hammond's real range. I use the faders and knobs on my Akai unit to control other stuff too, like most of the controls on Guitar Rig, and special FX like a tape echo plugin where you can control feedback loop effects.

Pads I could care less about although I like your idea of using them for a quick disposable click track. Anyway after checking out as many different controllers as I ran across, comparing features, reading reviews, etc, it came down to the Novation being the only one acceptable. With a couple compromises that make me grind my teeth but whatcha gonna do? Wasn't at all happy about the cost realizing most of that was paying for stuff I didn't care about but in the end I said "Fook it" and went for it. Gotta say it's a real nice keypad, way better than the old MAudio so there's that.

Besides tapping out temporary scratch drums to use for metronome, I use the pads for playing percussion instruments like congas, bongos, timbales, triangles, tambourines, and shakers. With my damper pedal assigned to kick, I can play the desktop pads like a drum kit and knock out metronome drums to compose with.

Your Novation has some pretty cool tricks up it's sleeve. I've got a 1.5 octave battery powered Novation keyboard with a strap that I used to use as a sooper portable electronic drum kit using it with my V-Drums brain and kick pedal. I could play drums standing up.

[Softshell]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I used to have a PAIA patchbay synth that I could link up to my Oberheim TVS, which also had it's own sequencer, and do some real trick arpeggiation stuff, as well as real large synth sounds.

I remember seeing the PAIA stuff advertised in various magazines way back when. Kits for cheap, some cool stuff.

Originally Posted by Glennbo

If I had a midi expression pedal I would instantly be using it, but more likely to do stuff like control a wah in Guitar Rig, or filter sweeps. Prolly even assign it to work the pedal on the B4.

I didn't have any money back when NI was selling the B4. It was like $200 IIRC. A month's worth of food. Always been kinda bummed about that but then I saved $200. Or actually $150 'cause I ended up buying Guido's VB3. An occasional odd quirk but for the most part pretty darned accurate. CC11 is assigned to the exp function by default (only makes sense) which is mostly what I use it for. But then honestly I always go back and spend worlds of time modifying and adjusting most of the controllers by hand. I'm surprised you don't have an EXP Pedal. I got this years ago https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...pression-pedal. Whoo! It's gone up in price, think I paid less than $50. It's got this cool pot on the side that adjusts the contour so you can smooth out the pedal travel. One of my pet peeves with most volume / wah pedals I've tried. Whole lotta Pedal travel with nothin' happenin' and then it jumps from 0 to 127. If ya know what I mean. Yeah there's bunches of real creative uses for one. I have a couple of guitar pedals that have an assignable Exp jack. Way cool!

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Interesting chain of events and similar to where my MidiMan Keystation 61 is today. About six years ago in the deep of Winter I sat down to play some keys and was so charged with static electricity that a jillion volt arc popped from my leg through the desk and into the Keystation. Windows, which I used at the time instantly popped up the message "Unrecognized USB Device" and it was smoked. The next day I plugged a midi cable in and found it could still be powered by USB and transmit over old school 5-pin midi. Six years later and I'm wishing it would die the rest of the way so I would have an excuse to upgrade.

Wow that's scary. Hope you didn't get jolted too much. Another reason to not have carpet on the floor

In hindsight I think my old Axiom was faulty from day one. Never could program anything on it. Should've been relatively straight forward but parameters (including patch location) and entered values would jump from time to time when programming. So you're trying to set up a VST in patch #23 and after several assignments you realize it's jumped to patch #37. What th'... Several attempts later I gave up. Thought it was me. Finally a few months ago the thing just started sending random CC changes. It got progressive;y worse. When recording the volume would go up and down radically and the VCA release would jump to infinity. Unusable for many synths.

Currently thinking about digging a hole out in the pet cemetery ... :P

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I prefer having a real midi port, and the Nektar 88 key does have one. I still have a Sequential Circuits Prophet 2002 rack mount sampler that I might wanna hook back up some day, and my V-Drums brain was made before USB midi was being used on them.

I just don't trust those mini USB jacks. But then I'm having issues with my Studio Project VTB-1 wall wart jack. It's apparently worn out and become unreliable. I just like to have super solid connectors and don't get why all the controllers use that funky thing.

This whole conversation has got me thinking mebbe check out Craig's list for Synth modules. Gotta laugh, yesterday went out with a buddy to look at an old Marshall JCM something or other he'd seen on Craig's list. Just for something to do mostly, I'm not much into Marshalls. well it wasn't a JCM it was a Valvestate w/ 1960 slant cab. Guy just wanted rid of the stuff. My friend gave him $150 for the amp. He already has like 4 identical cabs so he passed on that. But I was thinking dood would have taken $100 for the whole shebang and tossed in an old Peavey Bass amp & huge cab to boot! So I might well find some synth modules at a giveaway price. Maybe they'd even work

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I had thought about the positioning of faders for use with Hammonds, and I had noticed that the Nektar has them more to the left, but not all the way, but if the real length of a Hammond keyboard is assigned to start at the top note, then the faders are in a pretty usable place since the bottom of the keyboard would be below a Hammond's real range. I use the faders and knobs on my Akai unit to control other stuff too, like most of the controls on Guitar Rig, and special FX like a tape echo plugin where you can control feedback loop effects.

Yeah the vast majority of controllers have the faders in the wrong place. And not quite enough of them. At least to use for a Hammond fake which is a no brainer. I don't remember which ones but I saw a couple units that put the Pitch and Mod wheels in some unusual locations. WTF were they thinking?

When I was writing about that originally I googled the Nektar 88 and immediately noticed the better positioning of the faders. I went back to writing and wasn't 'till later I took a closer look and saw it was pretty lean on the back panel. But if it works for you that's cool. So that kinda explains that. kinda.

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Besides tapping out temporary scratch drums to use for metronome, I use the pads for playing percussion instruments like congas, bongos, timbales, triangles, tambourines, and shakers. With my damper pedal assigned to kick, I can play the desktop pads like a drum kit and knock out metronome drums to compose with.

Again not a bad idea. I usually actually play (or try to) and record the instrument but not being totally independently wealthy there is a limit to things. Jeez the price of congas! And then where do you put all that stuff?

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Your Novation has some pretty cool tricks up it's sleeve. I've got a 1.5 octave battery powered Novation keyboard with a strap that I used to use as a sooper portable electronic drum kit using it with my V-Drums brain and kick pedal. I could play drums standing up.

A Syntar for drums! Pretty slick.

Yes the Novation has a lot of cool features. Way more than I wanted but might get around to checking out one of these days. Kinda like buying a new car and wanting that fancy radio. But ya can only get that with a package that adds $5500 to the cost. What're ya gonna do?

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Softshell

I remember seeing the PAIA stuff advertised in various magazines way back when. Kits for cheap, some cool stuff.

The synth I built was like this one, and it made no sound until you had at least a few things patched up.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1ypRGj4g-...DLc/s640/1.jpg

I didn't have any money back when NI was selling the B4. It was like $200 IIRC. A month's worth of food. Always been kinda bummed about that but then I saved $200. Or actually $150 'cause I ended up buying Guido's VB3. An occasional odd quirk but for the most part pretty darned accurate. CC11 is assigned to the exp function by default (only makes sense) which is mostly what I use it for. But then honestly I always go back and spend worlds of time modifying and adjusting most of the controllers by hand. I'm surprised you don't have an EXP Pedal. I got this years ago https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...pression-pedal. Whoo! It's gone up in price, think I paid less than $50. It's got this cool pot on the side that adjusts the contour so you can smooth out the pedal travel. One of my pet peeves with most volume / wah pedals I've tried. Whole lotta Pedal travel with nothin' happenin' and then it jumps from 0 to 127. If ya know what I mean. Yeah there's bunches of real creative uses for one. I have a couple of guitar pedals that have an assignable Exp jack. Way cool!

I wonder if there is a JS midi plugin that could intercept and alter the range of an expression pedal. I wouldn't be surprised if there is. When I bought the B4 it was selling for a hundred bucks, and right after I bought it they had the FM7 for the same price and I bought it too. I was super pleased when I found out I could load up the SysEx file I had made a backup of my original series brown DX7 that had burned out years earlier. I have all the patches I used on the real hardware running on a virtual DX7 now.

Wow that's scary. Hope you didn't get jolted too much. Another reason to not have carpet on the floor

In hindsight I think my old Axiom was faulty from day one. Never could program anything on it. Should've been relatively straight forward but parameters (including patch location) and entered values would jump from time to time when programming. So you're trying to set up a VST in patch #23 and after several assignments you realize it's jumped to patch #37. What th'... Several attempts later I gave up. Thought it was me. Finally a few months ago the thing just started sending random CC changes. It got progressive;y worse. When recording the volume would go up and down radically and the VCA release would jump to infinity. Unusable for many synths.

Currently thinking about digging a hole out in the pet cemetery ... :P

I set my old DX7 out at the curb. It's motherboard cooked, and I only had a hundred bucks in it. It was gone the same day, but I'm betting it got thrown out again. I've not had any problem with USB connected midi gear, other than sparking them to death.

I just don't trust those mini USB jacks. But then I'm having issues with my Studio Project VTB-1 wall wart jack. It's apparently worn out and become unreliable. I just like to have super solid connectors and don't get why all the controllers use that funky thing.

This whole conversation has got me thinking mebbe check out Craig's list for Synth modules. Gotta laugh, yesterday went out with a buddy to look at an old Marshall JCM something or other he'd seen on Craig's list. Just for something to do mostly, I'm not much into Marshalls. well it wasn't a JCM it was a Valvestate w/ 1960 slant cab. Guy just wanted rid of the stuff. My friend gave him $150 for the amp. He already has like 4 identical cabs so he passed on that. But I was thinking dood would have taken $100 for the whole shebang and tossed in an old Peavey Bass amp & huge cab to boot! So I might well find some synth modules at a giveaway price. Maybe they'd even work

I used to have two 10 space racks full of synth modules, but as I started using virtual synths, got rid of them one by one. The Sequential Circuits Prophet 2002 was the last one and I didn't try finding a buyer for it coz I thought I might want to do something with it again some day. I can get one of these virtual floppy drives that fits in the same hole as the real floppy drive, but uses a USB flash drive to emulate 100 floppy disks.

https://www.amazon.com/LOVEDAY-Progr...9307857&sr=8-1

Yeah the vast majority of controllers have the faders in the wrong place. And not quite enough of them. At least to use for a Hammond fake which is a no brainer. I don't remember which ones but I saw a couple units that put the Pitch and Mod wheels in some unusual locations. WTF were they thinking?

When I was writing about that originally I googled the Nektar 88 and immediately noticed the better positioning of the faders. I went back to writing and wasn't 'till later I took a closer look and saw it was pretty lean on the back panel. But if it works for you that's cool. So that kinda explains that. kinda.

A Nektar 88 key would work great for me, but I have this problem in that my MidiMan Keystation 61 is not yet dead. I prolly couldn't trade it in either, since the USB part no longer works.

Again not a bad idea. I usually actually play (or try to) and record the instrument but not being totally independently wealthy there is a limit to things. Jeez the price of congas! And then where do you put all that stuff?

For me, real instruments end with guitars, basses, drums, a banjo, a mandolin, and some hand percussion. Everything else takes up too much space and costs too much money for me.

A Syntar for drums! Pretty slick.

The stand up drums I used mostly for band practices, but it was sure fun to play drums and be able to walk around while doing it. This was in the early 80s before Future Man Roy Wooten created the Synthaxe Drumitar.

Yes the Novation has a lot of cool features. Way more than I wanted but might get around to checking out one of these days. Kinda like buying a new car and wanting that fancy radio. But ya can only get that with a package that adds $5500 to the cost. What're ya gonna do?

What I do is buy the car with all the cool packages added, when it's ten years old and I can pay cash out the door and be 100% paid off as I drive it off the lot!

[baldo]

The integration is quite good thanks to realearn now :
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....48#post2449648