The cool Master mix stereo delay effect- How do you do it?
Hello
I'm sure we've all heard it - you know - that subtle stereo delay in a song?
I'm not talking about the stereo effect caused by panning different instruments left or right, but the effect that is applied to the entire mix, where there is a slight delay on the Left versus the right channel that makes the song slightly exciting. I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. Like the song is bouncing in my head - left and right - but in very subtle way...
I tried recreating that effect by slapping the JS - Pseudo Stereo with the HAAS effect settings cranked to the max. I also tried putting a delay 1/32 Left and 1/16 Right side with only 10-15% wet. Both - sort of - worked, but not exactly the same as what I'm hearing. I tried several Stereo plugins, but the settings all seem to be working too hard...
Something I noticed when doing this was some phase issues: I can see the meter in the correlation window get closer to 0 zero (can even go in the negative if I crank the wet delay to high). I'm not hearing a big difference in MONO when I turn the delay ON or OFF - so the audible phasing effect does not seem to be very problematic (but I don't have a really good monitoring setup... so... I can't really be sure).
Anyway, as you can see I don't know what I'm doing here. I know what I'd like to hear, but don't know how to get there.
I guess it would be more specific if you link an example of what you mean. Mostly songs from movie soundtracks get more room because they need to be in the background while voices and effects need to be more in the foreground. It sometimes sounds pretty amazing and creates the illusion of a wide roomy mix. Maybe its just a subtle adding of ambience. "Valhalla Room" got some nice presets that i mostly use to bring elements in a deeper 3d place of the mix. (Big, medium and small ambience)
And I give you a hint: Sometimes your ears are fooling you if you listen too long and concentrated. They get numb and blind for what you are looking for. So don't forget to make breaks from listening and start always with dry sound to wet or make A - B comparisons.
Here is an example of how the VallhallaRoom ambience preset sounds on one of your tracks. Its clearly noticeable how the entire mix gets wider and printed to the background while in the effects off status the original mix falls right in front of your head and center. (with headphones) The preset I used is MediumAmbience at 20% wet level. Maybe it helps.
That first site tries to lead you to downloads for crapware...who knows what virus or spyware you'd get if you actually downloaded and let them install.
The best thing you could do would be to just delete that link.
Your new link seems like a safer site and actually has the download but the file is a webm file which most people will not recognise and when trying to open will probably get a message that no program is associated.
Right click and select open with media player, VLC or probably most other video players.
And to the OP....you really need to provide an example. Your description isn't really pinning this down to anything specific.
I have no idea what you are talking about. If I open Zippyshare there is no crapware or anything. I would say nowadays it should be standard to use uBlock and scriptblock when surfing the internet. But I 'am sorry I didn't realize that zippyshare uses maleware or aggressive ads. I just didn't recognize it.
And .webm opens easy with VLC as you mentioned. It was the quickest way to create a small file with the needed aspects. I will see, if I can reupload it in an other format.
I have no idea what you are talking about. If I open Zippyshare there is no crapware or anything.
It opened to page with download link but clicking on that triggered a redirect every time. I can't get to the file....earlier I was arriving at another page with a download link that was some random software I definitely didn't want to download.
Now it just fails redirect and returns. Still no way to get the actual file though.
It opened to page with download link but clicking on that triggered a redirect every time. I can't get to the file....earlier I was arriving at another page with a download link that was some random software I definitely didn't want to download.
Now it just fails redirect and returns. Still no way to get the actual file though.
Yeah Voxengo. I tried that. I does work and got me somewhat to what I'm hearing.
I'm just really wondering if it is just about having short value delay on one side, or if there is a bit more subtleties to the technique. Best to delay the lows, mids, highs, all, no mids, etc. No ping-ping in the equation? Anything about phase I should know?
The JS Pseudo Stereo MDA seems to do something similar - but I wonder about the comb issues...
As for examples, many songs have this effect going on. Let's see here, ahhh I see STXY has a new album out, how about Hundred Million Miles From Home? Yep it has the effect. But sheeesh, the band seems to have lost its mojo
As for examples, many songs have this effect going on. Let's see here, ahhh I see STXY has a new album out, how about Hundred Million Miles From Home? Yep it has the effect. But sheeesh, the band seems to have lost its mojo
Not really my thing so I won't comment on their mojo but it's definitely a nice sounding production.
Jim Scott on mixing the album: “I mixed it through a vintage Neve console with some EQ, compression, reverb, and tape delay, and printed it to tape"
I guess it's not out of the question there is some subtle widening applied in mastering stage but I wouldn't be surprised if the "effect" you hear there is just a great mix done on great gear.
Not really my thing so I won't comment on their mojo but it's definitely a nice sounding production.
Jim Scott on mixing the album: “I mixed it through a vintage Neve console with some EQ, compression, reverb, and tape delay, and printed it to tape"
I guess it's not out of the question there is some subtle widening applied in mastering stage but I wouldn't be surprised if the "effect" you hear there is just a great mix done on great gear.
Ahhh hummm, well, seing that I have no gear (nothing analogue - all in the box - besides for instruments and microphones) and I'm an amateur mixer, I'm out of luck. hehehe
No, that's not true. Of course most people here can't use super high end equipment, but that doesn't mean really good mixes aren't possible. A lot of top hits were produced only in the box. Some of the best DJs in the top charts just used FL-Studio. And there are many possibilities to simulate a more analogish sound by using saturation or tape simulation. If you once used TB Reelbus on guitars or mixes, you will never do any further without it. That's the so called mojo!
But all your examples don't show any magic. Those are nothing more than slap backs from different ambiences. In the Styx song its clearly noticeable how the voice got a very small ambience (its a real room recorded with the vocals) while some other parts of the mix using a wider ambience.
Coldplay uses a hard slap back for the drums, thats nothing special. It only fits perfect to give the illusion of crispiness. And don't forget: If the sound already lacks bad frequencies the delay won't build them up. So it sounds organic and soft if the origin already is.
I don't know your age, but keep watching mixing videos on youtube and train your ears. You will soon end up with really good results. Don't give up.
As I already mentioned I recommend using ambiences to get the effect you want. Those stacking the elements of your mix in the 3d depth while a short predelay shifts your sound back. The longer the predelay the more it sounds like the element is in front of you and the room is behind.
There are also many free available ambience impulse files for using in Reaverb. And you could also use Readelay as a send effect and adding saddle saturation, modulation or pitch shifting to your delay to make it more interesting.
For analog sound I highly recommend Tone Boosters Reelbus. It ads such a nice body by just using the default settings, its amazing. If you like, I can create another example of how it ads mojo. But you also have lots of possibilities by just using JS saturation and overdrive effects. A little bit of it reduces the digital coldness and creates more punch. https://blog.landr.com/8-free-vst-plugins-warm-sound/
No, that's not true. Of course most people here can't use super high end equipment, but that doesn't mean really good mixes aren't possible. A lot of top hits were produced only in the box. Some of the best DJs in the top charts just used FL-Studio. And there are many possibilities to simulate a more analogish sound by using saturation or tape simulation. If you once used TB Reelbus on guitars or mixes, you will never do any further without it. That's the so called mojo!
But all your examples don't show any magic. Those are nothing more than slap backs from different ambiences. In the Styx song its clearly noticeable how the voice got a very small ambience (its a real room recorded with the vocals) while some other parts of the mix using a wider ambience.
Coldplay uses a hard slap back for the drums, thats nothing special. It only fits perfect to give the illusion of crispiness. And don't forget: If the sound already lacks bad frequencies the delay won't build them up. So it sounds organic and soft if the origin already is.
I don't know your age, but keep watching mixing videos on youtube and train your ears. You will soon end up with really good results. Don't give up.
As I already mentioned I recommend using ambiences to get the effect you want. Those stacking the elements of your mix in the 3d depth while a short predelay shifts your sound back. The longer the predelay the more it sounds like the element is in front of you and the room is behind.
There are also many free available ambience impulse files for using in Reaverb. And you could also use Readelay as a send effect and adding saddle saturation, modulation or pitch shifting to your delay to make it more interesting.
For analog sound I highly recommend Tone Boosters Reelbus. It ads such a nice body by just using the default settings, its amazing. If you like, I can create another example of how it ads mojo. But you also have lots of possibilities by just using JS saturation and overdrive effects. A little bit of it reduces the digital coldness and creates more punch. https://blog.landr.com/8-free-vst-plugins-warm-sound/
I'm not talking about the stereo effect caused by panning different instruments left or right, but the effect that is applied to the entire mix,
I don't hear this on the whole mix via samples provided. What I do hear especially on the coldplay and beck tunes is the age old trick of creating multiple slightly pitch shifted/delayed copies of the vocal and or other instruments and panning them.
It's very popular on vox as of late, if mixed in enough the lead vocal appears as one but almost more in the sides than the center, it spreads it out. I hear use of that technique on all of those mixes above but nothing on a "whole mix".
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Yeah, it's definitely not on the whole mix. You'd have mud! Elements of the mix are affected.
There really isn't any magic plugin that you can strap across the master bus to do your mix for you! You have to listen, roll up your sleeves, and get to work. Get rid of all the distortion boxes on the master bus too (tape saturation and the like).
I don't hear this on the whole mix via samples provided. What I do hear especially on the coldplay and beck tunes is the age old trick of creating multiple slightly pitch shifted/delayed copies of the vocal and or other instruments and panning them.
It's very popular on vox as of late, if mixed in enough the lead vocal appears as one but almost more in the sides than the center, it spreads it out. I hear use of that technique on all of those mixes above but nothing on a "whole mix".
Well that could be it - the effect is NOT on the whole mix. I thought it was, perhaps because it is blended so well that it affect the perception of the whole - relatively speaking until you learn how to discriminate better.
Perhaps I lack some 'audiovoyancy'? hehehe
Music is funny that way ---> it is possible that we all hear something different = some hear things others don't, for example. Never mind the appreciation factor...
Hhhh, this is another one of those microcosm is in the macrocosm - as above so below - sort of thing ---> we find in life in general <---- : we perceive things differently, yet we're all living on the same planet (for some it is a ball for others, well, it is flat, for example :S).
So, back to "the age old trick of creating multiple slightly pitch shifted/delayed copies of the vocal and or other instruments and panning them". Would I create a new track, route the source to this track, slap on ReaPitch and change it - how much? - a few cents, slap on ReaDelay full on Wet (no dry) add, say, 30ms, and pan the track on a side (full left, for example), then mix that in?
Now, would that not make the signal lopsided?
Do you think they sometimes make two delay tracks, one left with, say 30ms, and one right with, say 50ms? That way it would hear some sort of bouncing from ear to ear, would I?
Would changing the pitch not create some sort of combing effect - or chorus?
Warren uses Waves Doubler but I don't really like it's result as much as I do creating it manually with Reaper plugs. For the delay (ReaDelay) similar but small delay l/r after ReaPitch, I can find my chain and let you know what I chose for delay times if needed but IIRC they were in that 80-120 ms range. For ReaPitch/ReaDelay you can just add extra taps to keep it all on the same chain etc.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 04-24-2018 at 09:07 AM.
I may have found what I was looking for - at least a version of all the various possibilities.
It was recommended to me to modulate the L-R parameter of the JS Pseudo Stereo plugin, so that the effect does not pull the song towards a side, but spreads the effect to both channels - and therefore a more bouncing effect (ear tickle).
I may have found what I was looking for - at least a version of all the various possibilities.
It was recommended to me to modulate the L-R parameter of the JS Pseudo Stereo plugin, so that the effect does not pull the song towards a side, but spreads the effect to both channels - and therefore a more bouncing effect (ear tickle).
Parameter Modulation. Ha !
This sounds like a cool trick. I've got to try it on something. I'm always wondering what I can do with parameter modulation beyond wacky noises - there must be a thousand cool things.
Well that could be it - the effect is NOT on the whole mix. I thought it was, perhaps because it is blended so well that it affect the perception of the whole - relatively speaking until you learn how to discriminate better.
Perhaps I lack some 'audiovoyancy'? hehehe
Music is funny that way ---> it is possible that we all hear something different = some hear things others don't, for example. Never mind the appreciation factor...
Hhhh, this is another one of those microcosm is in the macrocosm - as above so below - sort of thing ---> we find in life in general <---- : we perceive things differently, yet we're all living on the same planet (for some it is a ball for others, well, it is flat, for example :S).
So, back to "the age old trick of creating multiple slightly pitch shifted/delayed copies of the vocal and or other instruments and panning them". Would I create a new track, route the source to this track, slap on ReaPitch and change it - how much? - a few cents, slap on ReaDelay full on Wet (no dry) add, say, 30ms, and pan the track on a side (full left, for example), then mix that in?
Now, would that not make the signal lopsided?
Do you think they sometimes make two delay tracks, one left with, say 30ms, and one right with, say 50ms? That way it would hear some sort of bouncing from ear to ear, would I?
Would changing the pitch not create some sort of combing effect - or chorus?
Any other things to consider?
Thanks
This script here by spk77 may do the trick for you in just 2 seconds on just one handy click
Hmmmm. I downloaded this script and what it did is - assuming I got it right - it duplicated my track a few times with a different pitch and panning for each track, then put all these tracks in a folder.
It sounded like a some serious combing effect - phaser - like sound?
Hmmmm. I downloaded this script and what it did is - assuming I got it right - it duplicated my track a few times with a different pitch and panning for each track, then put all these tracks in a folder.
It sounded like a some serious combing effect - phaser - like sound?
I actually just downloaded their freebie Pancake as I have some stuff that needs some movement. The multiband aspect of this one sounds interesting though.
The cool Master mix stereo delay effect- How do you do it?
Linear Mode
