Old 09-13-2016, 01:25 PM   #1
mabian
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Default v5.25pre7 - September 13 2016

v5.25pre7 - September 13 2016
+ MIDI export: add option to export project markers as either MIDI cue or MIDI marker event type [t=181236]
+ Performance meter: fix some arrangement issues when changing options
+ Render: clear transport button state when rendering [t=181231]
+ Tracks: improve drag and drop reordering of tracks upwards in place [p=1728883]
+ Undo: do not add undo point when dragging but not reordering tracks [p=1728883]
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
v5.25pre7 - September 13 2016
+ Tracks: improve drag and drop reordering of tracks upwards in place [p=1728883]
+ Undo: do not add undo point when dragging but not reordering tracks [p=1728883]
Thank you! It works as expected.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:01 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reordering tracks improvements!
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
+ Render: clear transport button state when rendering [t=181231]
If you do a "save as" while playing the transport stops but the play button remains lit.

Ideally, playback could continue. Obviously Reaper isn't Ableton Live or Bitwig, but every step in the direction to minimize unnecessary interruptions in playback/composition is an improvement in my opinion...
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
v5.25pre7 - September 13 2016
+ MIDI export: add option to export project markers as either MIDI cue or MIDI marker event type [t=181236]
Wow that was fast. Thanks a lot
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
If you do a "save as" while playing the transport stops but the play button remains lit.
This was fixed some versions ago already. Can't reproduce this anymore.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabian View Post
v5.25pre7 - September 13 2016
+ MIDI export: add option to export project markers as either MIDI cue or MIDI marker event type [t=181236]
First of all, this was just brought up in the forum a few days ago. That's just amazing. Seriously. Such fantastic work.

Second, after doing a bunch of testing, Reaper seems to be doing a couple things wrong on export. The first is if you select export markers as MIDI markers it's exporting MIDI Markers AND Cue points. The second is Reaper is adding an extra track named the same as the session - so not one track with the session name as is normal but two tracks with the session name. I've made screenshots of the Reaper MIDI export and then the same MIDI file re-exported by DP (I also did the same test with Logic and Pro Tools). You can see in the screenshots, DP does not have the cue points in addition to midi markers and also doesn't have two midi tracks of the session name.

Reaper:


DP:


Because Reaper is adding a duplicate midi track of the session name, Cubase and DP are messing up the name of the first imported midi track. It should be "MUR Vln 1 Leg Finger" but it is being read as "TJ Test Markers" in both programs.

Here's 2 screenshots. The first is the original midi export imported directly into Cubase. The second is a fixed midi file with the extra track and cue points stripped out from the original export and then imported into Cubase. Pro Tools reads both midi files correctly, but all the re-exports of the same midi file from the other programs tested don't have this extra track so I'm guessing it should be removed. Pro Tools and Logic in fact strip out the midi track with the session name entirely.

Cubase original import:


Cubase fixed import:


The last issue is that every program I tested with the MIDI Marker export read the markers fine except for one which is Cubase. However, when I re-exported the same MIDI file using DP, Logic and Pro Tools, Cubase DID read the markers correctly. The only differences I could find in the files were Reaper exporting Cue Points in addition to Markers when only the marker option was selected and the extra midi track of the session name. When I edited the original MIDI file in Sejaiku and deleted the cue points and extra track and resaved (the fixed version), Cubase still did not read the markers (although it's possible this could be related to Sejaiku). So, I'm not sure what would be different other than what I noted above.

Here's the current test status from today with export project markers as MIDI markers in 5.27.

- DP 8/9: reads MIDI Markers and MIDI Cue Points correctly
- Logic 10: reads MIDI Markers correctly (not cue points)
- Pro Tools 10: reads MIDI Markers correctly (not cue points)
- Sibelius 7/8: reads MIDI Markers correctly (not cue points)
- Cubase 8: does not read MIDI Markers correctly from Reaper export. Does read MIDI markers correctly when re-exporting the same MIDI file in DP, Logic and Pro Tools and importing into Cubase.

If anyone wants to play detective or can find something I missed in the original exported midi file vs the DP, Logic and Pro Tools re-exports, I've included links to each below. I've also included the fixed Reaper MIDI export (with extra track name and cue points stripped) so you can see how it is incorrectly exporting the additional track and messing up the first track name in DP and Cubase. I'll keep digging in the meantime.

Reaper export:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...est%205.27.MID
DP export:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...P%20Export.mid
Logic export:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...c%20Export.mid
Pro Tools export:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...T%20Export.mid
Reaper Fixed export:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/TLMusic/TJL...27%20Fixed.MID
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
Reaper is adding an extra track named the same as the session - so not one track with the session name as is normal but two tracks with the session name.
Thanks for testing this. Could you attach the original .rpp (just the MIDI tracks) that was used for the export?

... hm, I'm really not seeing this behavior, testing here. Is there any chance the MIDI in your exported project contains cue text events, which are getting exported in addition to the project markers?

Last edited by schwa; 09-14-2016 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:46 AM   #9
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"Klangfarben :
The first is if you select export markers as MIDI markers it's exporting MIDI Markers AND Cue points"

thatīs isnīt the case!!

the first time you export xx to format 1
marker or cues works at expected
It only export timeline marker as MIDI Marker or MIDI Cues... not both


but i could explain whatīs the really problem at export/import marker/cues
is and if you set import/export marker/cues to enable
and or if you have import/export
(to/from tempomap/timeline )
marker/cues not have enable..

Or these multiple Project Names(as MIDI track Name)
at the first MIDI track
after export/re import, export again and so on...

and why these multiple marker/cues & track names can happen...

Thatīs really very old somewhat wrong behavior
at parsing to/from MIDI Files..... from/to project tracks/tempo track/timeline

Should I explain the problem?


Normally the problem itself is very easy but hard to explain...

--
The main and simplest way to explain is:
Format 1
REAPER export the project name & Project timeline marker to the very first track within MIDI Format 1 file
which is Track #0 (tempomap)
as MIDI Meta Marker or Cue and the project Name as MIDI Meta Track Name Event.

thatīs ok, the right way.

but if I re import these MIDI file with
MIDI Marker to project Marker enable

REAPER move these Meta events from tempomap track#0
(Project Name and marker or cues)
not only to Tempomap/project timeline as it should
REAPER create/move also the same Marker/Cue Project Track Name META events from
Trk #0(tempomap)
to the next founded track which is of course -the MIDI file Track #1

So every time I export and re-import... again I get more and more multiple Marker and Track name events at Track #1

(I bet he export with marker re import the prev.export midi file and export again with cue enable.. )

If I do not export Marker timeline to MIDI Marker REAPER should leave everything as it is including of course
self made MIDI Marker/Cue events which are already somewhere within MIDI item xxx at track xxx

the same if I donīt import, leave everything at it is...

If I export Marker/cue REAPER should export timeline Marker as Midi Marker/Cue
into Track #0(tempomap)
+ merge every other founded marker/cue events within other items into Track #0(tempomap)
and donīt export these extra events within other items to other tracks as 0
So every marker /cue event are now exporting and merged only into track #0- the tempomap

If i import with marker enable
REAPER should import the marker at track #0 and any other founded marker/cue events to the project timeline, automatically remove the extra Marker events from other tracks as track #0

and of course never ever create/move these events from tempomap trk #0 also into the next track #1 within project

If so and I donīt delete these events at track 1 by hand, I get more and more multiple marker and track name events

As I said the main problem is, at least for me, simple but somewhat complicate to explain..

Greetings and have fun..
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Last edited by ELP; 09-14-2016 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP View Post
Format 1
REAPER export the project name & Project timeline marker to the very first track within MIDI Format 1 file
which is Track #0 (tempomap)
as MIDI Meta Marker or Cue and the project Name as MIDI Meta Track Name Event.

thatīs ok
Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP View Post
but if I re import these MIDI file with
MIDI Marker to project Marker enable

REAPER move these Meta events from tempomap track#0
(Project Name and marker or cues)
not only to Tempomap/project timeline as it should
REAPER create/move also the same Marker/Cue track name META events from
Trk #0(tempomap)
to the next founded track which is of course -the MIDI file Track #1
Agreed that this is not correct behavior. This is already fixed for the next build, so the meta-events in the tempo track will no longer be imported into the first track.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP View Post
If I export Marker/cue REAPER should export timeline Marker as Midi Marker/Cue
into Track #0(tempomap)
+ merge every other founded marker/cue events within other items into Track #0(tempomap)
and donīt export these extra events within other items to other tracks as 0
So every marker /cue event are now exporting only into track #0- the tempomap

If i import with marker enable
REAPER should import the marker at track #0 and any other founded marker/cue events to the project timeline, automatically remove the extra Marker events from other tracks as track #0
I don't think we should automatically remove events on import or export. The user may have a reason to want to preserve embedded MIDI cue events on a particular track even if the event falls at the same time as a project marker with the same name.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:56 AM   #11
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So here are my findings:
Logic Sees the Markers so all good on that end!!!

It seems that a Marker that's on the very beginning (1:1:00) Does not get exported. If I move it at 1:1:01 Then it's all good.

I don't know how to look for MIDI cues so I can't tell if it was exported or not.
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:08 AM   #12
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^^ thanks Schwa..

"I don't think we should automatically remove events on import or export. The user may have a reason to want to preserve embedded MIDI cue events on a particular track even if the event falls at the same time as a project marker with the same name."

Yes ok your turn..

I never like it if a program change somewhat automatically, steini do that for example

the problem can only be that some other programs would import multiple marker.
the marker from the tempomap and the Meta markers from other tracks into their
marker timeline/project timeline or where ever they import
... buts that is the problem for the others..

Nice that this is going be fixed...
No deleting by hand anymore^^

EDIT.
BTW parsing MIDI, I forget something

Can you also please have a look at import Project Track Names from MIDI Meta Track Names..
together with the option:
"Automatically name unnamed tracks on media import"
and MIDI Files

It would be better, if REAPER named the xx Project Track
the same as the real MIDI Track Name and not
extent the Track Names also with the File Name.. For the Item itself it is ok/good,
but for the xx Project Track Name not really.

I always delete this extra extent track name/ or renamed xx tracks to MIDI Meta Track Name events by script or mostly disable complete the Automatically .. option... for import..
It would be better if this, sometimes many, extra steps would not be necessary anymore -at or after import.



Greetings

"lexaproductions: It seems that a Marker that's on the very beginning (1:1:00) Does not get exported."

Yes a timeline marker at t=0 do not exported.
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Last edited by ELP; 09-14-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 09:55 AM   #13
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While we're back on render: I noticed today when opening a session given to me by someone else that the render path in the upper box had the last one used (from the other user's computer) which was added after the relative one. I wouldn't say this was desirable behavior. Shouldn't the original path saved with the session be ignored in this case?
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