Old 01-18-2017, 08:08 PM   #1
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Default Automation item pre-release thread

Have at it.


Please note that this is a fairly major code change and will take a number of cycles to get right. I would be surprised if automation items made it into a release build within less than a month.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Have at it.


Please note that this is a fairly major code change and will take a number of cycles to get right. I would be surprised if automation items made it into a release build within less than a month.
Would you mind revealing a bit about how it is internally implemented? (This is a thing I once tried implementing myself into an app of mine and it turned into a mess I didn't want to release to the public in the end...)
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:47 PM   #3
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Not working for master track envelopes, it seems. Hopefully that is not by design and support can be added!
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:05 PM   #4
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Unless I failed to search with the right words, the action list seems kind of empty of actions relating to the automation items.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:15 PM   #5
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Currently there's no indication if an automation item is pooled, is there ?
I think that would be useful.

edit:
I mean apart from the same name, should be more obvious imo, so you can tell from an item on its own, like with an icon as for pooled MIDI items or so.

Last edited by nofish; 01-18-2017 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:32 PM   #6
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If you right-drag select multiple AI's, you can't DEL them unless you drag them somewhere with left mouse-button first (which seems to put focus on them so that the DEL key works).

Shift-select then DEL works because it utilizes left mouse button.

Edit:
Ctrl-select works as expected (selects additional AI's one at a time).
Shift-select mimics Ctrl-select behavior instead of selecting across the range from first selected to last selected item.

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Old 01-19-2017, 12:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Have at it.


Please note that this is a fairly major code change and will take a number of cycles to get right. I would be surprised if automation items made it into a release build within less than a month.
Say Whaaat ?
OOH Yes !!!!
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:17 AM   #8
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please, please make coloring possibilities like on regular tracks *pray*
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:33 AM   #9
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Totally agree with airon about a double click mouse modifiers options.

That way we can set them up like we have normal items behave. (alt double click to delete etc etc)
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:34 AM   #10
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Yes, definitely need more mouse modifier love...
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:37 AM   #11
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Default LFO

Tick box to enable one of two things near the rate setting.

1. Shows both a start and end frequency slider (instead of the one frequency slider)

2. Shows a graphic envelope in a box so we can draw in rate over time. (see any of the lfo generator scripts for an example)

This will massively expand the use of the lfo feature.
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Old 01-19-2017, 02:12 AM   #12
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Default Will automation items be compatible with sws snapshots and previous scripts?

I'm going to try asap but wanted to get the "bitter sweet" conversation on the table.

Im guessing sws snapshots grabs the automation "chunk" right? to save automation so maybe it will still be ok?

There's also a few scripts that allow you to save whole track states as recallable presets (Sexan made a great one) but these tend to ignore automation envelopes and just work on normal items.

With this in mind and the fact that "automation items" are kind of both a envelope and an item..

.. Will these 2 systems now be broken?

Or will they be "blind" to the additional chunk information that is contained within automation items (hopefully)?

Will test but it thought its something to discuss/ask.
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Have at it.


Please note that this is a fairly major code change and will take a number of cycles to get right. I would be surprised if automation items made it into a release build within less than a month.


Omg...
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:13 AM   #14
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Default ReaEQ Metaphor for Automation

For parameters with continuous functions within some bounded range, I would like to interact with automation the same way that I interact with ReaEQ. I would like to be able to create a delimiter, and then adjust the value of that delimiter, but then also define the "Q" around that parameter according to a type of curve shape I've selected for that point (as I'm able to do in ReaEQ, Wavelab, etc.) Having defined the point, the type of its shape, and its "Q" (I'm using the term "Q" metaphorically), I would like to interactively customize the shape to the left or right of the point, the same way I interactively grab and position a fade in a Reaper audio track clip. I would like to be able to define an editable region between any two points, perhaps through "time selection", and interact with that region without causing changes to any value outside that region, or the points that delimit the region.

Last edited by Archimedes; 01-23-2017 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:37 AM   #15
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This is awesome!
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:32 AM   #16
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Default great tool

wow, lot's of ideas

If I can add my reccomendations though, keep it simple and intuitive before stuffing it with tons of options.

My take would be that minimum needs are
- summing with existing envelopes (as Schwa says in his example)
- merge of automation item with automation envelope (with deletion of item afterwards)
- few operation on item itself: normal stretching, trimming, splitting, edge snapping or snap on points inside (both contemporary should be fine), overall "gain" increase / decrease
- the various LFO scripts out there should work also for the envelope included within an automation item (they're more than enough)
- duplication and movement within the track horizontally, across automation envelopes and across tracks
- massive vertical item duplication on all envelopes for all selected track(s)
- possibility to move automation items with sound items or not according to option chosen
- locking

that would make it a powerful editing tool which is the first need for automation env

The rest would be becoming a creative tool. Which is good but comes after in my opinion.

g
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:32 PM   #17
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FR: How about adding a formula parser?
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:49 AM   #18
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I'm gonna say it again. The way to accomplish this is to make the "automation items" be nothing but audio items.

Give us a few more tools for drawing audio.

Give us sample accurate Parameter Modulation (!!!)

Give us a mode for following audio input that is not rectified, gated above 0, and curvy, and we're done.

Last edited by ashcat_lt; 01-25-2017 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 02-09-2017, 12:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianfini View Post
wow, lot's of ideas

If I can add my reccomendations though, keep it simple and intuitive before stuffing it with tons of options.

My take would be that minimum needs are
- summing with existing envelopes (as Schwa says in his example)
- merge of automation item with automation envelope (with deletion of item afterwards)
- few operation on item itself: normal stretching, trimming, splitting, edge snapping or snap on points inside (both contemporary should be fine), overall "gain" increase / decrease
- the various LFO scripts out there should work also for the envelope included within an automation item (they're more than enough)
- duplication and movement within the track horizontally, across automation envelopes and across tracks
- massive vertical item duplication on all envelopes for all selected track(s)
- possibility to move automation items with sound items or not according to option chosen
- locking

that would make it a powerful editing tool which is the first need for automation env

The rest would be becoming a creative tool. Which is good but comes after in my opinion.

g
Exactly, not 10 0000 options that dont work right way its not prductive, but more intuitive workflow with new features..
Reaper is allready too technical and takes lots of work to run propely with all of the customizeable actions. Complexity is not always the best
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:45 AM   #20
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Super excited about this!
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:37 AM   #21
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When we move an edge of a not looped automation item, I think it's sad not to have the possibility to add new points in the new section immediately :

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Old 03-26-2017, 06:05 AM   #22
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It's different to general item behaviour, but it makes sense to me in this case
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
When we move an edge of a not looped automation item, I think it's sad not to have the possibility to add new points in the new section immediately
In your specific example, moving the edge with the "collect new points" mouse modifier (control+drag by default) would have the effect you want. But that's only because the underlying envelope value is the same as the automation item value on the right edge.

We can add an option for the behavior you want, but that means if there are other automation items pooled with the one being edited, they will also be affected by the edit. In particular, looped items pooled with this unlooped item will be altered in possibly unexpected ways.
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:54 AM   #24
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We can add an option for the behavior you want, but that means if there are other automation items pooled with the one being edited, they will also be affected by the edit.
Please don't add such a behavior, because it already exists as you've written above.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:21 AM   #25
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1) For easy insertion of AIs in multiple lanes, it would be nifty if the left-drag mouse modifier for "Draw a new automation item" could be made to work on all lanes touched. AIs could therefore be drawn on all lanes with a single swipe.

2) Would it be possible to make the edge point interpolation more accurate?

Before inserting AI:


After, showing inaccurate edge points:
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:32 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Would it be possible to make the edge point interpolation more accurate?
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:




... which is different from your screenshots.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:




... which is different from your screenshots.
Schwa, why create interpolated points when the captured AI could be generated by seeking back to the closest previous point, seeking forwards to the closest next point, and trimming the edges of the AI inward? That way the curves are perfectly preserved.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
How are you inserting that automation item? What normally happens is that the curve is rendered at the edges, like this:
I am using just plain right-click -> Insert new automation item, or the mouse modifier for "Draw new automation item".



I am using these options (but they don't make any difference to the accuracy):
Options: Remove points from underlying envelope when creating automation items = OFF
Options: Automation items do not connect to the underlying envelope = ON
v5.60pre13
Attached Images
File Type: gif Drawing automation item.gif (53.8 KB, 1120 views)

Last edited by juliansader; 10-16-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I am using just plain right-click -> Insert new automation item, or the mouse modifier for "Draw new automation item".
Could you post your reaper.ini file, and a simple .rpp with the envelope shape saved prior to creating the automation item?


... also, for clarity, what REAPER version is this?

Last edited by schwa; 10-16-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 04:37 AM   #30
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The attached RPP should demonstrate the edge point issue even in a pristine portable install of 5.60rc1 x64.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:38 AM   #31
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For more praticity it should be better if there is always one point at the edge of AI.

We don't have to add one point if we want to move the envelope at the edge because there is already one point.



Last edited by ovnis; 10-16-2017 at 11:45 AM.
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