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Old 01-05-2022, 11:32 AM   #521
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Fair enough. Reaticulate could in theory support dynamics notation (it would be a bit of a hybrid system, using Program Change for articulation control, but otherwise respecting notation for dynamics), but I think for hairpins to be really useful REAPER itself needs some improvement in this area: AFAICT you can't attach dynamic instructions to either end of the hairpin as part of a single event.

The starting point would technically work, because even though it's independent from the hairpin it would at least be observable by Reaticulate during playback, but the target isn't known until we get there, meaning it can't translate the hairpin into a meaningful CC curve.

That's but one obstacle in using REAPER's notation/text events for articulation control.
If Rearticulate knew the starting dynamics, the hairpin lengh and the target dynamics, then it could create meaningful CC curves.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:34 AM   #522
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If Rearticulate knew the starting dynamics, the hairpin lengh and the target dynamics, then it could create meaningful CC curves.
That's the point I was making: the target dynamic is not known during playback while the hairpin is being calculated, because the event for the target dynamic isn't sent to Reaticulate until after the hairpin is finished. REAPER itself lacks the concept of a single hairpin event with both source and target dynamics. They're three separate events, and the target is unhelpfully not visible to the JSFX until after the hairpin.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:48 AM   #523
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That's the point I was making: the target dynamic is not known during playback while the hairpin is being calculated, because the event for the target dynamic isn't sent to Reaticulate until after the hairpin is finished. REAPER itself lacks the concept of a single hairpin event with both source and target dynamics. They're three separate events, and the target is unhelpfully not visible to the JSFX until after the hairpin.
I see.
Maybe it could follow a single rule: if the target dynamic marking is right after the hairpin, then that's it; otherwise, the target would be the next natural one (p->mp, ff->fff, etc).
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:51 AM   #524
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I mean, supposing the script can look ahead as it's supposed to.
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Old 01-05-2022, 12:31 PM   #525
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I mean, supposing the script can look ahead as it's supposed to.
Unfortunately it's not as easy as it sounds. (Is it ever?) The JSFX that does the event processing would need to prebuffer up to the longest hairpin. And they can potentially get quite long. Users probably wouldn't be thrilled to have to wait dozens of seconds before playback begins.

This really needs help from REAPER: the MIDI text event for the hairpin needs to include both source and destination dynamics. (And for this to be done most robustly the GUI should have support for this as well, to concretely attach src/dst dynamics to each end of the hairpin, as opposed to a freely relocatable discrete marking.)

And now that I look more closely, there's another complication. When you start transport with the cursor in the middle of the hairpin, the text event received by the JSFX is the same: it includes the total duration of the hairpin from the start, not the remaining duration.

So, in fact, I don't see that a JSFX has any hope of implementing this properly after all. That's the main argument for a native system: plugins can only do so much when the basic building blocks aren't there or aren't fully baked, but a native solution rather forces the matter, because it either works or it doesn't.

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Old 01-05-2022, 01:03 PM   #526
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Sad ... this is simply sad.
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Old 01-05-2022, 01:14 PM   #527
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The main issue is, that the devs would need to gather a lot of information in order to build an articulation system, since this is one of the areas the devs don't use personally.
And I'm unsure if the devs would go that route. To me it looked like they gave up 5 years ago, because
they hadn't thought of every feature. Glad to be proven wrong, though
If they were to build an articulation system from scratch, sure. But as I suggested, if they decided to implement Reaticulate, that would not be such a big issue as the heavy lifting of coming up with a system that works has already been done by tack and the main work that the devs initially would need to do is just write some code around it to implement it in a stable and futureproof way. And tack knows very well what the various users of an articulation system want so he could act also as a guidance and tell the devs which features Reaper should provide in order to make the Reaticulate system as flexible as possible and welcoming to as many workflows as possible.

I believe Reaticulate is by now well established, stood the test of time and has become sort of the unofficial “Reaper articulation system”. So at this point I feel the devs could also make it official and if not expand on it at least integrate it as tightly as possible in its current state and do the occasional maintenance update if neccessary.
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Old 01-05-2022, 06:16 PM   #528
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Unfortunately it's not as easy as it sounds. (Is it ever?) The JSFX that does the event processing would need to prebuffer up to the longest hairpin. And they can potentially get quite long. Users probably wouldn't be thrilled to have to wait dozens of seconds before playback begins.

This really needs help from REAPER: the MIDI text event for the hairpin needs to include both source and destination dynamics. (And for this to be done most robustly the GUI should have support for this as well, to concretely attach src/dst dynamics to each end of the hairpin, as opposed to a freely relocatable discrete marking.)

And now that I look more closely, there's another complication. When you start transport with the cursor in the middle of the hairpin, the text event received by the JSFX is the same: it includes the total duration of the hairpin from the start, not the remaining duration.

So, in fact, I don't see that a JSFX has any hope of implementing this properly after all. That's the main argument for a native system: plugins can only do so much when the basic building blocks aren't there or aren't fully baked, but a native solution rather forces the matter, because it either works or it doesn't.
You see, now, why my heart was broken?

Joke aside, ain't it possible to create CCs along dynamic markings creation? It would take much less time to create CCs for it would only need to check current take, then zero playback delay, plus avoiding the second complicating!

It's so hard to quit!
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Old 01-05-2022, 06:24 PM   #529
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Joke aside, ain't it possible to create CCs along dynamic markings creation? It would take much less time to create CCs for it would only need to check current take, then zero playback delay, plus avoiding the second complicating!
As a discrete action that's invoked to translate hairpins to CC events inside the MIDI item, yeah, for sure that's possible -- and much easier. Not as sexy as direct notation support during playback of course, but definitely workable.

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Old 01-05-2022, 06:55 PM   #530
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Yeah, a late comeback. Better later than ever!
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Old 01-05-2022, 08:27 PM   #531
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a nice toolbar by using musical icons: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=10 Thanks to @reddiesel41264 for sharing these icons



NB: I didn't find an action to delete dynamics. I found Notation: remove articulation, ornament, octave notation, phrase/slur, but no dynamic. any idea ?
hi, may i ask how to make this in reaper?
thanks in advance
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Old 03-04-2022, 11:20 AM   #532
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I still check in here from time to time to see if the articulation mapper has been brought up again.

I LOVE reaticulate but would it would be so amazing to have a native solution (integrating reaticulate into Reaper natively would be fantastic).
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Old 04-05-2022, 03:34 AM   #533
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What happen to Reaper Articulation Map?
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Old 04-05-2022, 06:38 AM   #534
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I still check in here from time to time to see if the articulation mapper has been brought up again.

I LOVE reaticulate but would it would be so amazing to have a native solution (integrating reaticulate into Reaper natively would be fantastic).
Same, dude, same. 🤞
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Old 04-05-2022, 06:54 AM   #535
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hi, may i ask how to make this in reaper?
thanks in advance
It is just a toolbat with actions and each action has an icon assigned. Search for "Toolbars: Customize..." in the action list.
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Old 04-05-2022, 06:55 AM   #536
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Notation came ouf of dev's interest for the most part it seems. They still fix something time to time though.
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Old 04-05-2022, 09:08 AM   #537
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It is just a toolbat with actions and each action has an icon assigned. Search for "Toolbars: Customize..." in the action list.
Or maybe you could share the toolbar and its icons on stash...
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Old 04-05-2022, 09:20 AM   #538
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Or maybe you could share the toolbar and its icons on stash...
Not mine.
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Old 04-06-2022, 04:07 PM   #539
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What happen to Reaper Articulation Map?
In January 2017 Shwa said that they have pulled the articulation mapping code out of the official realease and they were going to work on this offline for a few releases.
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Old 04-06-2022, 11:19 PM   #540
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In January 2017 Shwa said that they have pulled the articulation mapping code out of the official realease and they were going to work on this offline for a few releases.
Honestly Reaticulate is so incredibly good that it’s probably made this feel much less urgent.

If the devs want the most “bang for the buck” in terms of development time vs. real world results, I feel a MIDI overhaul that would bring things like a per-note metadata API would be that, to allow new functionality in scripts which isn’t really possible at this point.

Not against a native solution of course, if we can get that too!
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Old 04-14-2022, 03:18 PM   #541
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Just bumping this to let the devs know that this is a VERY awaited feature for a lot of people.
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Old 04-14-2022, 04:53 PM   #542
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Honestly Reaticulate is so incredibly good that it’s probably made this feel much less urgent.

If the devs want the most “bang for the buck” in terms of development time vs. real world results, I feel a MIDI overhaul that would bring things like a per-note metadata API would be that, to allow new functionality in scripts which isn’t really possible at this point.

Not against a native solution of course, if we can get that too!
I agree that Reaticulate is excellent, and a worthy effort. It also feels like there is a lot of native connective tissue yet to be built around articulation and notation more generally, as you've mentioned, the lack of which keeps more from being accomplished by users and scripters alike. Building blocks that (to my eye) don't seem like they require a whole cloth, feature complete notation editor in order to bring into being. My hill to die upon in terms of quality of life has been MusicXML import.
I'm still doing all my work in external editors because a) they're industry standards and I'll need those filetypes to share anyway and b) I couldn't do most of it in Reaper yet if I wanted to. Totally fine, observations not complaints, Reaper need not be all things to all people. The issue arises for me when I can bring none of that effort to bear via import, likely because the native articulation definitions don't yet exist in the first place. Back to your metadata point.
I've already got my FR in, so maybe this is getting into grandstanding/rant territory, but it's more just meant to be an agreement by example. It just seems sensible to leverage the feature-completeness of other programs (and indeed Reaticulate) while building the native framework so that the whole organ doesn't have to be either grown in an instant or missing entirely.
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Old 06-01-2022, 07:37 AM   #543
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Friendly bump to keep the hope alive!
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Old 08-02-2022, 07:47 AM   #544
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Friendly bump to keep the hope alive!
And another....
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Old 08-02-2022, 11:51 AM   #545
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and yet another...
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:44 AM   #546
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and yet another...
...and another!
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:36 PM   #547
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Another one bumps the dust
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:57 PM   #548
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So, this thread doesn't have a counterpart in Feature Requests subforum, right? I'd like to up that thread instead, yet I think the one here is more visible.
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Old 08-10-2022, 11:06 PM   #549
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Perhaps the devs/mods should move this thread to the FR subforum as it pretty clearly is no longer in development and thus no longer a pre-release thread.
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Old 09-12-2022, 04:51 PM   #550
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Perhaps the devs/mods should move this thread to the FR subforum as it pretty clearly is no longer in development and thus no longer a pre-release thread.
Yeah! Makes me sad, but I would definitely like to continue discussing it/brainstorming.
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Old 10-23-2023, 12:20 AM   #551
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I've recently submitted a feature request for an internal Articulation Manager. I truly believe it would be a great addition to our current system. I would greatly appreciate if you could show your support over there as well, as your input and thoughts are highly valued. Thank you!

> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=283765
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Old 01-26-2024, 03:49 PM   #552
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As a discrete action that's invoked to translate hairpins to CC events inside the MIDI item, yeah, for sure that's possible -- and much easier. Not as sexy as direct notation support during playback of course, but definitely workable.


You're just earning Internet points.
Hi, tack. Did you ever try this? I'd love to see an implementation of such a system.
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