Old 01-01-2022, 01:16 PM   #81
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I'll sometimes remove any digital peak limiting (as it's unnecessary in the analog world) so long as it doesn't fundamentally change the audio, but that's pretty much it.
I have a lot of masters that are already limited. Not heavy handed.
Can those be used for vinyl anyway? I guess yes, but still ask...
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Old 01-01-2022, 04:02 PM   #82
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I buy vinyl, I'll have two vinyl albums out this year, junior-junior buys vinyl.

For somebody like my youngest, the experience of owning a physical record, and being forced (by the format) to listen to the tracks in entirety without skipping, in order, as the artist (or record company!) intended is a MASSIVE change from Spotify etc.

Youngest Zargon spends more than half of the allotted pocket-currency on vinyl.

Also, YZ actually listens to it ALL THE TIME.

Old Zargon (me) buys too much new vinyl, and then ends up slinging the same old Bill Evans, or Mingus, or Coltrane, record on that he listened to the day before. Or the day before that. Because I'm old.

Although I did get round to buying the Boy Genius record and actually listening to it!
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Old 01-01-2022, 05:51 PM   #83
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I buy vinyl...
Because I'm old.
That sums up the whole thread. Nothing wrong with being nostalgic and reminiscing down memory lane.

Also good to show those time to younger generations. It is another thing to read about it on the forums and online articles, yet a completely different thing to experience it, even though not in its original state.
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Old 01-02-2022, 01:18 AM   #84
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That sums up the whole thread. Nothing wrong with being nostalgic and reminiscing down memory lane.

Also good to show those time to younger generations. It is another thing to read about it on the forums and online articles, yet a completely different thing to experience it, even though not in its original state.
Not really.

My youngest (as I said) is a massive vinyl fan. That's not old Bob Dylan or Dire Straits records; that's new stuff like Little Sims and Banks and lord knows what sort of nonsense.

At a Rough Trade only a couple of days ago it was mostly 16-25 Year olds in a busy, busy vinyl store.

Vinyl is thriving, and the young are a big part of that.

I bought three new cassettes recently by underground bands! Cassettes!

Fun IMO.
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Old 01-02-2022, 01:36 AM   #85
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Not really.

My youngest (as I said) is a massive vinyl fan. That's not old Bob Dylan or Dire Straits records; that's new stuff like Little Sims and Banks and lord knows what sort of nonsense.

At a Rough Trade only a couple of days ago it was mostly 16-25 Year olds in a busy, busy vinyl store.

Vinyl is thriving, and the young are a big part of that.

I bought three new cassettes recently by underground bands! Cassettes!

Fun IMO.
Indeed! Seems like kids WANT vinyl these days!
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Old 01-02-2022, 03:57 AM   #86
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Indeed! Seems like kids WANT vinyl these days!
Sorry for scratching where it doesn't itch, but why is that?
I want to understand what went wrong. I have a few theorys, but I'd like to hear more.
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Old 01-02-2022, 04:36 AM   #87
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Not really.
Vinyl is thriving, and the young are a big part of that.

I bought three new cassettes recently by underground bands! Cassettes!

Fun IMO.
Not really. Young people get hyped fast and then it is gone.
It will be "cool" for a couple of years, just for the sake of "being different" and then it will go away.

Vinyl had its time. Time to move on. Grandpas telling bed-time stories and opening old chests is a good family tradition.
That's how it should be.

I still remember my grandfather showing me old wood carving and metal-forging machinery and devices\tools he had in the old house from his grandfather.
Me and my brother were so hyped. My brother even made a strat-type guitar (not really that good but we learn to play guitar on it) and some wood sculptures. I went full on metal tools and forging.

Grand did his work with the modern tools though: faster, less effort, more precise, a bit more noisy though with all the electric motors and stuff.
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Old 01-02-2022, 04:45 AM   #88
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Not really. Young people get hyped fast and then it is gone.
It will be "cool" for a couple of years, just for the sake of "being different" and then it will go away.

Vinyl had its time. Time to move on. Grandpas telling bed-time stories and opening old chests is a good family tradition.
That's how it should be.

I still remember my grandfather showing me old wood carving and metal-forging machinery and devices\tools he had in the old house from his grandfather.
Me and my brother were so hyped. My brother even made a strat-type guitar (not really that good but we learn to play guitar on it) and some wood sculptures. I went full on metal tools and forging.

Grand did his work with the modern tools though: faster, less effort, more precise, a bit more noisy though with all the electric motors and stuff.
14 years of annual growth in vinyl sales in the UK. Don't know where you're from; maybe it's different there.
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Old 01-02-2022, 07:42 AM   #89
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Sorry for scratching where it doesn't itch, but why is that?
I want to understand what went wrong. I have a few theorys, but I'd like to hear more.
I don't know?
Perhaps kids want a physical object to hold for a while? Perhaps they just like the sound? Or the looks? Cassette is making a resurgence too! And VHS!

So it seems that old(er) technology is interesting to younger folk. Who knew, right?!

ps. I think everything goes in cycles. When I was a teenager, I was fascinated with the "everything 60's" (my parent's "teenage" years) - gear and all! Now I'm just waiting for the 80's to die out so that 90's with grunge and britpop can come back in fashion as I never really outgrew that phase!

pss. and jungle(DnB)!

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Old 01-02-2022, 08:08 AM   #90
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I don't know?
Perhaps kids want a physical object to hold for a while? Perhaps they just like the sound? Or the looks? Cassette is making a resurgence too! And VHS!

So it seems that old(er) technology is interesting to younger folk. Who knew, right?!

ps. I think everything goes in cycles. When I was a teenager, I was fascinated with the "everything 60's" (my parent's "teenage" years) - gear and all! Now I'm just waiting for the 80's to die out so that 90's with grunge and britpop can come back in fashion as I never really outgrew that phase!

pss. and jungle(DnB)!
We did everything right in the 80s
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Old 01-02-2022, 08:32 AM   #91
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14 years of annual growth in vinyl sales in the UK. Don't know where you're from; maybe it's different there.
UK. Yes, I have seen teens in the local music store HMV.
Most of them do it because of grandparents passion, so they feel attached in a family kind of bond. Also for them is something different, even novelty (old, well forgotten). They do not care about how it sounds.
They care how cool they would look posing as selfie with all the attributes for the "vinyl experience".

I fairly recently (since a few months before lockdown actually) started to buy very old music: early swing jazz and blues.
Somehow I just got fed up with all the prog metal, hard rock and punk-electronic music.

Wanted something from the source of recording era. Not on vinyl though.
CDs are good enough, though I am sure most of the sources for the CD prints have come both from tape and\or vinyl, with proper mastering.

The Boswell Sisters, The Andrews Sisters (I listen to them as I write now), The Mills Brothers, Glenn Miller...

Of course I may have heard them as a kid at my grandparents. I knew some of the songs already, so it was like an epiphany.
Singing some of the songs and music lines in the garden. My neighbour asked me if everything was alright with me, seeing me overly-happy.

But the whole music back then was really funny and playful.
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:41 AM   #92
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There's always one in the group. Some people are apparently more interested in playing with the equipment than actually listening to the music. Heh, the accusation thrown at some of the "audiophiles". Sorry but when the digital studio master is available to hear in full fidelity and someone wants to mess around with degraded formats of click those suck buttons on their AV receiver (eg. "club eq", "cave", etc) just to play with a shadow of it instead, they're sure not interested in hearing that music! It's right there in full quality in front of you available and you pass it by without the slightest interest!
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Old 01-02-2022, 11:52 AM   #93
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Yesterday all my friends were hangover. Today I went to listen to a couple of vinyl records to a friends house. Just to make sure.
The turntable was a Numark DJ style one, and there was a Mackie console and a JBL Eon powered speaker.
The records were dirty. There was that noise, you know? I told my friend that I read that soapy water can do the trick, is it true?
Caetano Veloso's record (guitar and vocals, live) sounded, you guess, like a vinyl lol
Maybe people are sick of perfect digital stuff?
I can't get enough of digital audio.
I must be REALLY old in a way.
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Old 01-02-2022, 12:43 PM   #94
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UK. Yes, I have seen teens in the local music store HMV.
Most of them do it because of grandparents passion
Wowee.

Ok then.
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Old 01-02-2022, 03:06 PM   #95
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How would you know why they are there (and their reason for buying vinyl)? Unless you work at HMV?
No, not really. I simply ask the staff how is it going with the vinyl inventory on display.

They know and I trusted their words. Also the guy at the till was not much older than 19, so he must have known better.

I bought the digital SHM-CD of Sting's new album "The Bridge" a few days before Christmas.

Great musicianship, but still the album was mastered a bit to the loudness war "standards", so I had to do my own thing of restoration.





Code:
Peak       RMS            Duration     Track
-------------------------------------------------------------
0.00 dB    -6.86 dB       3:18         01-Rushing Water (pro-master)



Peak       RMS            Duration     Track
-------------------------------------------------------------
-0.50 dB   -13.16 dB      3:18         01-Rushing Water (re-master)

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Old 01-02-2022, 03:19 PM   #96
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Haha, did you use clip repair on that limiting?

Yeah, these trashy cheap volume war releases. Especially when it's the only released digital version. I suppose this is done to push vinyl versions that sound better simply because someone didn't degrade them? The end result of this is no one ever gets to hear the full quality digital master. Anyone not in the know just think your studio ability lacks. I think that's not a very good look but what do I know. This apparently equals profit!
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Old 01-02-2022, 03:21 PM   #97
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This is mental.
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Old 01-02-2022, 05:32 PM   #98
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At least, all I can say is the Loudness war is far from over.

I am sure the master for vinyl has much lower gain, loudness in this regard. It can not be that obnoxious in level for sure.

Would be interesting to know how the recordings have been made. Those are old dinosaurs, they surely have used analogue equipment, but I doubt tape has been used as a storage medium (just assuming).

Definitely the master for CD has been prepared for battle.
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Old 01-02-2022, 06:07 PM   #99
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Would be interesting to know how the recordings have been made. Those are old dinosaurs, they surely have used analogue equipment, but I doubt tape has been used as a storage medium (just assuming).
I would say the Andrews Sisters, Mills Brothers, etc. you mentioned would have almost assuredly been direct to disc.

Tape started showing up around the late 40's in North America, and by about 1960 most, if not all, masters were stored on tape, with perhaps a master disc as well.
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Old 01-03-2022, 03:50 AM   #100
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I would say the Andrews Sisters, Mills Brothers, etc. you mentioned would have almost assuredly been direct to disc.

Tape started showing up around the late 40's in North America, and by about 1960 most, if not all, masters were stored on tape, with perhaps a master disc as well.
By dinosaurs I meant people such as Sting.
I really have no idea how The Boswell Sisters have been recorded.
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Old 01-03-2022, 04:06 AM   #101
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By dinosaurs I meant people such as Sting.
I really have no idea how The Boswell Sisters have been recorded.
Haha, shows how old I am compared to you

To me Sting is a contemporary

I was in that space then, all masters in those days were stored on tape.
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Old 01-03-2022, 05:12 PM   #102
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They told you "Most of them do it because of grandparents passion, so they feel attached in a family kind of bond. Also for them is something different, even novelty (old, well forgotten). They do not care about how it sounds.
They care how cool they would look posing as selfie with all the attributes for the "vinyl experience"."?

Wow! Must have been a cool conversation!
Yes (not as a direct citation, rather with that connotation), I like to talk about Music and what still makes people going to a shop and by CDs, vinyl, DVD concerts.
This particular shop shut doors twice (that was before covid). The grand daughter of one of my neighbours then (they moved a couple of years ago and I moved a few months back) used to work there for one summer (the one before covid).

I also have bought 100+ CDs from charity shops.
My recent (just before Christmas) collection: 5 CDs for £2 (sealed! brand new):



£3 and I have not even shown the other 10 CDs for £2 (though not new).

They also got vinyl, but the condition was only feasible for some hardcore hipsters.
I would not by vinyl (maybe only if they destroy Internet, all my .flac and CDs).

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Old 01-04-2022, 03:09 AM   #103
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...to tell people here that their experiences or knowledge (which differ from yours) isn't valid?
When did a say (write) such a thing?
Let me quote myself:

Quote:
Nothing wrong with being nostalgic and reminiscing down memory lane.

Also good to show those time to younger generations. It is another thing to read about it on the forums and online articles, yet a completely different thing to experience it, even though not in its original state.
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Old 01-04-2022, 06:39 AM   #104
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Yawn...
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Old 01-04-2022, 07:05 AM   #105
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DIY, made to order ;P
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Old 01-04-2022, 08:24 AM   #106
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I'm losing interest in this thread, because of the silly arguments.
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Old 01-04-2022, 08:26 AM   #107
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I'm losing interest in this thread, because of the silly arguments.
You started it! ;P
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Old 01-04-2022, 08:31 AM   #108
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You started it! ;P
Yeah, but it's been taken over by some people that are boring me.
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Old 01-04-2022, 08:54 AM   #109
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Maybe we should have a game of Jelly Botty?

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Old 01-04-2022, 10:18 AM   #110
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Yeah, but it's been taken over by some people that are boring me.
Well, I'll see myself out then...

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Old 01-05-2022, 01:32 AM   #111
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Yes. For investigating Yourself Vinyl wear, needle wear, calibrating issues, old record backup, showing first mass record technology for kids, for enjoying old records "live". This is kind of interesting in understanding this format.

No. For searching for hi-fi sound or other aspects of high quality.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:20 AM   #112
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Yes. For investigating Yourself Vinyl wear, needle wear, calibrating issues, old record backup, showing first mass record technology for kids, for enjoying old records "live". This is kind of interesting in understanding this format.

No. For searching for hi-fi sound or other aspects of high quality.
Well said!
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Old 01-05-2022, 01:39 PM   #113
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Well, I'll see myself out then...
Hahaha, that was hilarious!

Forums still are quite entertaining.

Just because someone is bored of the way the discussion went, does not mean other (presumably feeling guilty for the said boredom) had to leave.
The bored person should find more entertaining threads, regardless of who have started the thread.
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Old 05-05-2022, 12:15 AM   #114
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Is it worth it?
Just... move on. Why is this obsolete tech. having a "come back" is ridiculous.

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Old 05-05-2022, 06:04 AM   #115
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I think it makes sense to look where the money is going.

In 2020, vinyl outsold CDs by two to one, at least in the Divided States of America. Before you laugh and say that streaming outsold all of them by orders of magnitude, you have to consider that different niches of music have different audiences with different preferences.

In my niche (traditional music), people still prefer physical CDs. We just released an album on Bandcamp and have already gotten six times more orders for the physical CD than we've sold in downloads, and that will bring in more income than 5 or 6 years of streaming. Most people who listen to our music never use streaming services; the people who stumble on our music on the streaming platforms usually do so by accident.

If vinyl is popular in your particular genre of music, why not pursue it? Same goes for DSD, which is popular in some genres as well (classical and jazz for audiophiles, mainly) and is starting to take off.
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Old 05-05-2022, 11:04 AM   #116
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Here I think the "is it worth it?" does not imply marketing and profit to the worth of it, rather the tech. aspects of it, do they worth it.

They do not. Nostalgia for a hipster culture. It has it market. I am not a customer on that market.
Yesterday I just bought 10 CDs (again) for £2 (about $US2.5) with music from the 30s, 40s.

Of course I still have a question: What were the sources for it?

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Old 05-07-2022, 12:29 PM   #117
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If you have some awesome cover art, or need a place to put your manifesto, or really groove on nostalgia, then vinyl is worth it. If you are looking for the best fidelity you can get, dragging a needle through a groove pressed into plastic isn't going to do it for you.

I love my records and continue to buy them. I don't kid myself about what they are, though.
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Old 05-07-2022, 01:24 PM   #118
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If you have some awesome cover art, or need a place to put your manifesto, or really groove on nostalgia
Actually I received what looked like a vinyl album in the mail some months back; I hadn't seen one of those in years so I forgot what a showcase the covers and inside could be for great art. It was a tribute to an old friend of mine who died years ago; members of his band decided to produce an album from old concert and studio recordings. In this case, though, you pulled the liner notes out of the sleeve and inside the notes was a CD. I thought that was brilliant, although I have no place to put it; vinyl albums require tall shelf spaces.
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Old 05-07-2022, 02:19 PM   #119
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Depends on your audience. One thing we can thank hipsters for is saving tape, vinyl and bookstores.
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Old 05-13-2022, 07:59 AM   #120
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Is it worth it?
Why are you resurrecting this thread? What is to be gained?
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