Old 06-01-2015, 03:22 PM   #1
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Default Windows 10

Yer yer I know its already been a discussion, please dont bash.

Im sure many of you have got the icon on your tool bar saying reserve me a copy of windows 10, and once more its free for a year, well well so will you upgrade in july when it is released it does sound promising, but want really know until it messes up all your work and plugings hmmmmmmmm
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:39 PM   #2
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Been using the beta & the tech preview for a long while - baled out when it went to the public beta, though.

The last tech pre build was pretty good. Stable and ran everything I threw at it,including all my 64bit plugs etc.
RME interfaces predictably both ran fine.

Unless they really messed up between the last tech pre and now it is already a stable operating system.


And maybe since they are effectively giving it away to existing users, maybe the whining will be slightly quieter...
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:43 PM   #3
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I using the Windows 10 Beta in the studio, and it's been fine - zero problems. My old Mackie ASIO driver worked fine too. I had to replace my machine in the studio, it was very unstable. I bought a Levono K450e with an i7, 16G RAM and a 2G HDD. I have been very happy with the computer and the OS. I could not stand Windows 8.1 and didn't want to learn, since it's going away.
BTW: The Lenovo is $750 on frequent sales. There is nothing out there for the money that can touch it. I can't build a machine for that.

I'm getting a second machine in tomorrow for my electronics / R&D bench and am going to do the same thing. A also have it setup as a music test PC, as I don't have as much MIDI gear in that room.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:02 PM   #4
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I'll do the W10 update on a business machine to keep with the curve given the work I do, and a gaming/recreation machine just for the hell of it, but my DAW running W7 64-bit, no. It's a dedicated DAW that gives me all the power and resources I need to do what I need to do musically. I see no advantage in a W10 upgrade.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:46 PM   #5
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Interested in this for my daw-pc currently win8.1 x64
and for my laptop win7 x32.

So, RME runs fine in win 10?
And win7/8-drivers generally work fine?
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Old 06-02-2015, 12:42 AM   #6
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WIN10 improves overall system performance for a number of reasons and it has significant improvements for audio applications, although I can't say how much of these would impact Reaper as-is.

it has a much smaller memory footprint and is requires less resources when compared to any previous release.

If you're fine on WIN7 and want to stay there that's obviously fine but expect support and fixes for 7 to wind down much faster as happened with XP. Mainstream support for 7 has already ended.
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:11 AM   #7
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And what about after the first free year?
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:23 AM   #8
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Yer yer I know its already been a discussion, please dont bash.

Im sure many of you have got the icon on your tool bar saying reserve me a copy of windows 10, and once more its free for a year, well well so will you upgrade in july when it is released it does sound promising, but want really know until it messes up all your work and plugings hmmmmmmmm
I would like people reading at least exactly whats on their desktop.

its not free for a year, the offer to get it for free stands for a year. so if you get it within that year after appearance its yours forever. and you get the key. and you can roll back. so ... ?

and its done via Windows update as an in-place-update. no new clean install, so your data is fine.

and for the whole rest: why dont you read and discuss at the front with people who really know: Microsoft. but then again there are assumptions turning into myths and rumours and then there are assumptions based on these second hand rumours and myth.

man, sometimes I hate the internet. in the pre-internet-times those assumptions and myth-talks stayed within a small group of individuals. you only needed to stay awy a bit from them and have been out of this "§$%&-discussions.

if you want to play it completely safe: make an image-copy of your C-drive, update to Win 10, if you dont like it, store your backup back. thats it. done. end of uniformed discussion.

where is the point in discussing the ifs and whens of a system thats not even ready? when all the pre- and beta-testers say its good? I really dont get it ... what a waste of energy.
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:24 AM   #9
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And what about after the first free year?
read the Win 10 app on your computer. exactly. word for word. and try to understand.

the offer is free for a year. Win 10 is free for you forever, including all updates. around for the next 10 years.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:10 AM   #10
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The key here for all pro or semi-pro DAW-studio users
is of course compatibility. Does everything work in win 10?
And, the more concerned you are about uptime, the less eager one should normally be for jumping on an upgrade.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:12 AM   #11
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WIN10 improves overall system performance for a number of reasons and it has significant improvements for audio applications, although I can't say how much of these would impact Reaper as-is.
Are these improvements documented somewhere in detail ? For asio, not wasabi of course..

All I have read was a degradation due to a different scheduling strategy which trades doc against power savings (but I do not find this post anymore, it was somewhere hidden in a technote)
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Old 06-02-2015, 03:24 AM   #12
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man, sometimes I hate the internet. in the pre-internet-times those assumptions and myth-talks stayed within a small group of individuals. you only needed to stay awy a bit from them and have been out of this "§$%&-discussions.
I completely agree with you here. But the thread is still a good one, for me too, as this is what forums are about - we might get answers about compatibility, how old plugins work, and so on.
I'll just test win10 ("reserved" it) on my subnotebook for work, and if I like it, I'll install it on my DAW PC. Meanwhile I do exactly what many suggest here, I have a drive snapshot image and in case I don't like it I'll go back to win8.0 on my daw-PC.
All in all here even Windows vista, with some personal work to streamline it, worked fine with Reaper and all plugins i had (minus Amplitube, but that was no windows-related problem). My problem with Windows is not, since XP, reliability. I just don't like OS like from apple and Windows phoning home, but never got my head around doing audio with a Linux system. So I'll try Windows 10.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:01 AM   #13
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I hope the 'automatic updates' still give me the option to manually shutdown then manually start, because a 'restart' after an update usually crashes my Dell Studio 1557 laptop... (still don't know why after many hours/days of research).
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:03 AM   #14
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Are these improvements documented somewhere in detail ? For asio, not wasabi of course..

All I have read was a degradation due to a different scheduling strategy which trades doc against power savings (but I do not find this post anymore, it was somewhere hidden in a technote)
There are number of keynotes and documents around on this, especially the vastly improved audio latency and MIDI implementations. Now whether that will affect current DAW software immediately or the new API needs to be implemented I do not know.

I do not have the relative links at hand though. I certainly know that I see significant improvement in several areas since running WIN10.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:14 AM   #15
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...

I do not have the relative links at hand though. I certainly know that I see significant improvement in several areas since running WIN10.
so, bang, fine, thread closed.

seriously: I will clone my running system and the do the in-place-update and then I will see. maybe I read a bit about it all @ Microsoft, at the source.

over at reddit are Microsoft officials doing questions and answers. that is also new. in former times Microsoft wouldnt have come down to the primitive public ... now they do. see ... some things are getting better in this world. who would have guessed that?
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:17 AM   #16
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Default Windows 10?

I know that Reaper has backward compatibility to Win 98 (yay for the home team, for not leaving grandpa's PC in the dust!). What has been done to accommodate Win 10?

I got an icon in my taskbar (bottom of the picture) saying Win 7 users would get a free upgrade to 10. First of all, I gotta laugh. All the money they spent on 8, and now they're rolling out 10? What about 8.2, or even Win 9? SMH
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:32 AM   #17
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I see a huge difference in the way MS are approaching this compared to the beta stuff on 7 and 8.
They certainly do seem to be actually listening to the betas about the general look feel and behaviour this time, rather than just "did you manage to break it? How?" approach seen before.

And the pres have been significantly less squirrely than previously.
Only a couple of show stoppers in early-ish 9xxx builds and they were on them pretty fast at the time. Oh and the show stoppers there were, seemed to be mostly hardware combination dependent!

Tough to avoid that sort of thing on an open hardware platform.
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Old 06-02-2015, 09:19 AM   #18
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let's talk turkey on licensing

what happens if i download windows 10 on a machine, install it, sysprep it (assuming that still works) and then put that disk onto another machine?

come july 2X, will i basically have as many windows 10 copies as i currently have windows 7/8 licenses? what about vms, could you turn 1 windows 7 license into a billion concurrent windows 10 vms?

licensing is getting real weird.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:06 AM   #19
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what happens if i download windows 10 on a machine, install it, sysprep it (assuming that still works) and then put that disk onto another machine?
It's a large enough change to trigger a need for reactivation but as you are inferring I don't know what the result of the activation attempt would be. My guess is there will be some hurdle somewhere to overcome or there would be no reason for activation assuming it is still there.

Also, remember the point here is about interoperability etc. because Windows 10 is the first real rendition of the ability to run the same app across multiple devices and in some cases platforms. Thusly, having the majority of the user base on 10 is important.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:23 AM   #20
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how long before power users figure out how to disable windows 10 updates?

b/c automatic updates and installations of said updates is NOT something i want on a production/performance computer.

i hope to (as usual) run permenantly as local admin (effectively sidestepping all "user" features) and scoop out/disable all app store features, metro stuff, unwanted services etc...really hoping windows 10 does not forget about those of us who like to get under the hood
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:44 AM   #21
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how long before power users figure out how to disable windows 10 updates?

b/c automatic updates and installations of said updates is NOT something i want on a production/performance computer.

i hope to (as usual) run permenantly as local admin (effectively sidestepping all "user" features) and scoop out/disable all app store features, metro stuff, unwanted services etc...really hoping windows 10 does not forget about those of us who like to get under the hood
Updates > Advanced Options
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:05 AM   #22
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over at reddit are Microsoft officials doing questions and answers. that is also new. in former times Microsoft wouldnt have come down to the primitive public ... now they do. see ... some things are getting better in this world. who would have guessed that?
Yeah, MS have changed a bit for the better haven't they? A decade ago I viewed them as the archetypal evil, money-grabbing corporation but these days they seem more open and interested in the opinion of their users. Of course, my view has become less polarized as well, and MS is still a business and not a humanitarian organization. It's not like they're giving Windows 10 away out of the kindness of their hearts. But there is, I think, some difference in how their business is run and how user feedback affects their product development. This change might be based on self-interest and nothing else but still, if it benefits the users it's a good thing.

I'm definitely going to give Windows 10 a whirl on my 8.1 lappy, and if it looks promising, I'm going to consider it for my stationary Win 7 machine as well.
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:33 AM   #23
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Last I heard, M$ will no longer be charging for operating systems. I never heard anything about "free for a year."

Read an article a month ago that just said it will be free, even for people upgrading pirated versions, but those people would not have access to customer support. So I took it that buying a license would become more akin to buying a warranty with Win10.

Maybe I'm misinformed.

But I'm running the tech preview on the laptop and it still crashes pretty often, touch screen functionality is pretty hit and miss and many common apps run buggy (e.g. Skype). A stable release seems kinda far off yet, in my estimation.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:15 AM   #24
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Yeah, MS have changed a bit for the better haven't they? A decade ago I viewed them as the archetypal evil, money-grabbing corporation but these days they seem more open and interested in the opinion of their users. Of course, my view has become less polarized as well, and MS is still a business and not a humanitarian organization. It's not like they're giving Windows 10 away out of the kindness of their hearts. But there is, I think, some difference in how their business is run and how user feedback affects their product development. This change might be based on self-interest and nothing else but still, if it benefits the users it's a good thing.

I'm definitely going to give Windows 10 a whirl on my 8.1 lappy, and if it looks promising, I'm going to consider it for my stationary Win 7 machine as well.
me too. MS = evil, but Windows was needed.

and of course its a company, people work there and have to earn a living. but a comapny can be run so or so. and they are (seems so, time will tell) on the path from so to so. so to say. the tone in the MS forums has changed drastically, thats what I found the most obvious at first.

and because of their past there are this discussion, that never happen when Apple comes with a new OS. not in this way. I think they have a long journey still to go to get rid of that evil-empire image.

would be good for them and of course for the customers.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:21 AM   #25
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There are number of keynotes and documents around on this, especially the vastly improved audio latency and MIDI implementations. Now whether that will affect current DAW software immediately or the new API needs to be implemented I do not know.

I do not have the relative links at hand though. I certainly know that I see significant improvement in several areas since running WIN10.
Audio latency : wasabi / mmapi improved : who cares ? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...io-driver.html)
Midi : no Info / new API (win preview) but no info on ddk / midi.

USB : dpc Problems / scheduling still immanent

....
So I guess it is the usual marketing bloat : every windows is better than the last one , if you take a faster machine ....

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Old 06-03-2015, 02:41 AM   #26
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Have you ever tried WASAPI? It is delicious mixed with soy sauce.

And it also gets very close to the same sort of latency numbers as my BabyFaces ASIO drivers on my lappy.

Depending on how it is implemented an improved wasapi could be a real plus for users of lower spec computers with fairly mediocre interfaces.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:46 AM   #27
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--> dedicated thread ?
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:16 AM   #28
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Last I heard, M$ will no longer be charging for operating systems. I never heard anything about "free for a year."

Read an article a month ago that just said it will be free, even for people upgrading pirated versions, but those people would not have access to customer support. So I took it that buying a license would become more akin to buying a warranty with Win10.

Maybe I'm misinformed.

But I'm running the tech preview on the laptop and it still crashes pretty often, touch screen functionality is pretty hit and miss and many common apps run buggy (e.g. Skype). A stable release seems kinda far off yet, in my estimation.
Interesting. I ran all the tech preview builds on an i5 lappy with 8gb right up to where it went to public pre-release beta.
No issues at all. There was ONE pre build that caused certain combinations of hardware problems but that was rectified very quickly. If memory serves it was the build before 1041 that was naughty.
Might be worth checking your build number - also IF I recall correctly, the dodgy build was before MS went to automatic updates to the newest build.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:25 AM   #29
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Might be worth checking your build number - also IF I recall correctly, the dodgy build was before MS went to automatic updates to the newest build.
it's auto updating to the latest builds.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:53 AM   #30
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I've been running the tech previews since the 9XXX builds and it is still buggy as hell on my Surface Pro. It seems that they fix one problem only to create another. The thing I really love is when Win 10 asks for feedback and then freezes when you're trying to provide it. It's got a long way to go IMO but I think it will be great once they get it ironed out.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:43 AM   #31
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how long before power users figure out how to disable windows 10 updates?
Power users do not install Windows 10 Home, they use Pro or Enterprise, so they have the option to defer updates built in.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:45 AM   #32
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Last I heard, M$ will no longer be charging for operating systems. I never heard anything about "free for a year."
That's not correct. Current Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 installs will be offered a free upgrade to Windows 10. This option will exist for a year.

Enterprise and OEM still require a license to be bought and a year from now anyone upgrading at that time will also have to pay an upgrade fee.
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Old 06-04-2015, 06:40 AM   #33
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How's the general feeling on drivers ? I use an M-Audio FireWire 410 interface via an add-in SIIG FW card in my Win 7 x64 desktop. Most current drivers from M-Audio are for Windows 7.

Are people finding that Win 7 drivers are working on Win 10 ?
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:31 AM   #34
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I've been running the tech previews since the 9XXX builds and it is still buggy as hell on my Surface Pro. It seems that they fix one problem only to create another. The thing I really love is when Win 10 asks for feedback and then freezes when you're trying to provide it. It's got a long way to go IMO but I think it will be great once they get it ironed out.
Hilarious! So my 100% NOT MS hardware runs 10 pre very well with pretty much no issues and their own hardware can't handle it!

Is it the public beta now going the rounds that is giving you trouble or the earlier tech preview? I pulled out of the program when they shut down the tech review and wet to public beta but the last TP version was super stable for me.
Did they screw it up after they closed the tech preview???
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:46 AM   #35
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Hilarious! So my 100% NOT MS hardware runs 10 pre very well with pretty much no issues and their own hardware can't handle it!

Is it the public beta now going the rounds that is giving you trouble or the earlier tech preview? I pulled out of the program when they shut down the tech review and wet to public beta but the last TP version was super stable for me.
Did they screw it up after they closed the tech preview???
To be fair... works fine on my Surface pro and my Samsung Slate and one of my Desktops.
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Old 06-04-2015, 09:53 AM   #36
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How's the general feeling on drivers ? I use an M-Audio FireWire 410 interface via an add-in SIIG FW card in my Win 7 x64 desktop. Most current drivers from M-Audio are for Windows 7.

Are people finding that Win 7 drivers are working on Win 10 ?
M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 works with Win7/64 bit drivers (Delta 6.0.8) here. RME PCI Card works too, but thats no surprise. Focusrite Pro14 FW works but hangs sometimes, what it did in Win8.1 too.
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Old 06-04-2015, 10:09 AM   #37
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How's the general feeling on drivers ?
TC electronic desktop konnekt 6 has issues on previous builds but is fine now on build 10130.
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:43 PM   #38
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Hilarious! So my 100% NOT MS hardware runs 10 pre very well with pretty much no issues and their own hardware can't handle it!

Is it the public beta now going the rounds that is giving you trouble or the earlier tech preview? I pulled out of the program when they shut down the tech review and wet to public beta but the last TP version was super stable for me.
Did they screw it up after they closed the tech preview???
Yes, I'm running the latest build (10130) and each build has introduced new instabilities while fixing some previous ones. I can't speak to your statement regarding your hardware vs. mine, all I know is that my experience so far as been not been encouraging if they are as close to RTM as rumor has it. However, 10 does show a lot of potential I feel.
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:06 PM   #39
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That's not correct. Current Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 installs will be offered a free upgrade to Windows 10. This option will exist for a year.

Enterprise and OEM still require a license to be bought and a year from now anyone upgrading at that time will also have to pay an upgrade fee.
that's unfortunate. i stand corrected.
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:04 PM   #40
Fergler
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I have updated my install but the 10 app still doesn't appear.
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