Old 03-13-2010, 08:24 PM   #1
Neve
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Default No More "Beta" OS X versions.....

Dev Team, with all due respect, and THANK YOU for all the hard work. You're awesome!!!

I'm devoted.

Unfortunately I just can't use it as my main DAW as of now.

But, .... if you want to make this wonderful DAW happening in the "real" Pro world,

you have to make it as awesome as Logic is with midi and "Flex Time".

"Beat Mapping" should be simple and intuitive, and detect transients simply.

Remember that most Pro studio's (including mine) use OS X with Logic and Pro Tools.

Pro people come from these two main DAW's on OS X.

Take that into account,,,, (KB shortcuts, behavior, etc,,,)

I don't mean to patronize you guys, and I REALLY want to be constructive.

But you should focus on this as well ....

I'm trying to make constructive remarks. No offends intended.

Cheers.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:50 PM   #2
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Uh oh, I'm gonna have to tell Howard Shore, who composed the LOR soundtrack, that he's not a pro anymore. Why? Because he uses Digital Performer. Damn, them's the breaks.

Neve, I think you sound a little bit condescending, as though you're addressing people who don't understand what they're doing until someone like yourself points it out. There are a lot of professionals in here, including myself. And I don't use that kind of tone.

Secondly, what does "No More Beta Versions" have to do with what you posted? Nothing. You just asked for additional features.

Not trying to rag on ya, but don't rag on the homies. It's hard enough trying to write this software and still have time to be a gay satan worshipper in San Francisco. [anyone remember that one?] It's a lot of pressure.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:59 PM   #3
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I could probably make a similar but longer list of reasons why I supposedly can't use Logic or ProTools as my main DAW. Imho, for advanced and demanding users, not any single DAW is sufficient by itself. They all have 'deal-breaker' imperfections, restrictions, omissions, and plain old bugs. If all you have is a hammer... you don't have enough tools.

So, when choosing which platform to invest in (not so much in financial terms, but especially time spent learning it), a very important factor in how responsive its devs are to its users. Cockos can sure stand up a comparison to any DAW developer in that respect. If you would elaborate in more detail what exactly you miss/want when you say "As awesome as Logic is with MIDI" (I can imagine a few things myself, and many have already been requested), I'm sure we will get there, piece by piece (we have come a long way already). And probably way before Logic is going to be anywhere near awesome with routing, load in just a few seconds, have Jesusonic-like scripting, etc. (oh and you can just forget about any chance of cross-platform compatibility there, of course).
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:01 PM   #4
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I'm not condescending at all !!!!!

On the contrary!! I'm trying to be constructive and would like this DAW to make it into the real pro world. It'll take time, as PT and Logic are very well established. I'm using them both (PT HD3 and Logic Pro 9.1 Main DAW)

Take it as you will, but I'm not condescending.

I used to write lines and lines of code (many years ago). And I know it's not simple to code what people want/need.

Cheers.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:02 PM   #5
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I'm NOT starting this Thread to START a WAR !!!!!!!

I WANT TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, Damn it !
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
"As awesome as Logic is with MIDI" (I can imagine a few things myself, and many have already been requested), I'm sure we will get there, piece by piece (we have come a long way already). And probably way before Logic is going to be anywhere near awesome with routing, load in just a few seconds, ...
I agree 100%
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
not any single DAW is sufficient by itself
I agree. This is why many studios use Logic for composing and PT for recording audio.

Although both can be done under Logic.

But why can't Reaper be the BEST of both worlds? So to speak...

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Old 03-13-2010, 09:55 PM   #8
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?
What constitutes the 'real pro world' ?

We seem to have a tool here that many folks are being productive with.
They are recording, mixing, mastering in Reaper. Other companies are leveraging its capabilities to enhance their product[ Openlabs, Guitar hero?] Is that not professional enough?
From 25 years on the road as a musician, professional has come to mean using the tools you have to offer the best possible service you can, as consistently as possible.
Reaper at this time in its life is no DAW's little brother. It already has a name for itself. It is already distinctive; it is already allowing others to do new and exciting things.
Perhaps if you would learn the programme the way it presents itself,invest your time and person in the process, you may be better able to articulate a vision for Reaper that does not compare it to your 'other' DAWs.
That may be constructive!
[The above applies to Larry, too, as he rants in another thread. ]
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Old 03-14-2010, 07:04 AM   #9
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Wow didn't think you could fit the word pro so many times in one post
I'm so so glad i'm no PRO

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Old 03-14-2010, 09:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAS View Post
Wow didn't think you could fit the word pro so many times in one post
I'm so so glad i'm no PRO

NAS
i'm a pro "Tool" (spanner i think she calls me)

the funny thing is .....

bah Reaper kicks the arse of every other host i have used,

end of,

well not end of as it keeps getting better!

Subz
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
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Sure, Logic etc. have features that Reaper doesn't. So Reaper has features that others don't have. The devs have their reasons for choosing how to prioritise feature expansion, and that's not always going to be in line with what you or I want personally.

Ask yourself this... how many new features and improvements are appearing in Reaper over the weeks and months, against other DAWs? Are the features you want going to appear in Reaper in the near future? Likely.

For me it comes down to workflow. I can live without every feature so long as reaper doesn't get in my way - and it doesn't for me. If you need one of those "killer features" for your workflow, use that product. But also ask yourself whether the lacks in your favourite DAW get in your way. Software is always about compromise, and everyone's priorities for compromise differ, irrespective of "pro" or otherwise. Perfection is virtually unreachable.

You'd be hard pushed to find as many professional, knowledgable and helpful people in any other DAW forum. That's just one of the killer "features" for me.

z.
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappa View Post
Sure, Logic etc. have features that Reaper doesn't. So Reaper has features that others don't have. The devs have their reasons for choosing how to prioritise feature expansion, and that's not always going to be in line with what you or I want personally.

Ask yourself this... how many new features and improvements are appearing in Reaper over the weeks and months, against other DAWs? Are the features you want going to appear in Reaper in the near future? Likely.

For me it comes down to workflow. I can live without every feature so long as reaper doesn't get in my way - and it doesn't for me. If you need one of those "killer features" for your workflow, use that product. But also ask yourself whether the lacks in your favourite DAW get in your way. Software is always about compromise, and everyone's priorities for compromise differ, irrespective of "pro" or otherwise. Perfection is virtually unreachable.

You'd be hard pushed to find as many professional, knowledgable and helpful people in any other DAW forum. That's just one of the killer "features" for me.

z.
Agreed.
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subz View Post
i'm a pro "Tool" (spanner i think she calls me)

the funny thing is .....

bah Reaper kicks the arse of every other host i have used,

end of,

well not end of as it keeps getting better!

Subz
I may screengrab that and add it to all the XT threads where somebody else mentioned Reaper and i got blamed for it hahahahaha

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Old 03-14-2010, 01:27 PM   #14
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Neve,

Thanx for the feedback. However, it is true what everyone else is saying. Each one of us uses his "pro" DAW in their unique way. What I need from my DAW might not be what you require from yours.

Since version 2 of Reaper, I have finally sold my 2 ProTools rigs (heavy duty ones! - and luckily made more than I had expected, becuase of Digidesign's great marketing).

As far as "pro" is concerned, the last 23 Canadian network TV shows music, 4 HBO movies scores, Beijing Olympics Broadcast Theme for the CBC - written and produced, 11 TV commercials and 6 albums that I produced where all made with Reaper.
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:38 PM   #15
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Neve,

Thanx for the feedback. However, it is true what everyone else is saying. Each one of us uses his "pro" DAW in their unique way. What I need from my DAW might not be what you require from yours.

Since version 2 of Reaper, I have finally sold my 2 ProTools rigs (heavy duty ones! - and luckily made more than I had expected, becuase of Digidesign's great marketing).

As far as "pro" is concerned, the last 23 Canadian network TV shows music, 4 HBO movies scores, Beijing Olympics Broadcast Theme for the CBC - written and produced, 11 TV commercials and 6 albums that I produced where all made with Reaper.
Nice work you've done there indeed!
I'm doing pretty much the same stuff over here + many pop albums. Been doing that for the past 24 years or so.
I still have my PT HD rig, which I hate and almost never fire up, but customers like to see it. I get 99% of the job done in Logic with my 3 RME FF 800 connected to my trusty 24 track Neve console, and they don't even see it.

Anyways, you're right, I do need functionalities (such as beat mapping, and auto transient detector, to name a few), that I don't have in Reaper - Or I may just not know where to look.

I do like Reaper a lot. However, as far as midi functionalities and ease of use, for my personal needs,
I still prefer Logic. But that's probably because I know it so well.

I wished Reaper got out of Beta on OS X ....
I'd love to use it extensively.
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