My God, stop giving all different names to the same action!

[Argitoth]

I'll keep adding to the list as I find more. There's so many actions and ways of saying things, that's why there's so many misguided noobies, they can't find the damn action because it's impossible to know what arbitrary term was used for a desired action.

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

I too would like to see this cleaned up as it's like playing a texted based adventure game trying to find the right command! You have to guess wildly sometimes

"Edit cursor" OR "Cursor" NOT "Cursor position"
-have one way to differentiate between play and edit cursor

"Cursor position" OR "Current position" OR "Edit or play cursor" OR "play/edit cursor"
-have one way to refer to the active cursor. the active cursor is the play cursor when playing or recording. the active cursor is edit cursor when the play cursor does not exist

"Move edit cursor" OR "Go to" OR "Goto" OR "Move"
-have one way of referring to moving the cursor.

"Time selection" NOT "Current time selection"

"Marker" NOT "Project marker"
"Project marker" NOT "Marker"
-We have stretch markers now, so project marker needs its own distinction.

"1" NOT "01"

"Recall" OR "Restore"

"Item" OR "Items" OR "Selected items" NOT "Item(s)"
-"Item(s)" doesn't work well when searching for actions.

"Delete" VS "Remove" VS "Erase"
-This is quite bad, half the actions use one, half the actions use the other. Remove should be used for anything that can never be completely deleted from existence. Item fades are removed. Time selection is removed. Envelope points are removed. Media items are deleted. Tracks are deleted (currently, the term "remove" is used for tracks, but the popup is "are you sure you want to delete?"). Items are deleted. "Erase" should only be used when the action has to do with the mouse. I drag my mouse to erase. I click my mouse to erase. I do not click my mouse to delete. I click my mouse to select and THEN I PRESS A BUTTON to delete. Erase is one step. Delete is two.

"View" OR "Show"
-I personally think it should be "show".

"Height" OR "Vertical zoom"

"Add" VS "Insert"
-When I insert something, I am creating something in the timeline. I insert a project marker, an item, or empty space. When I add something, there is no time component. I add a track. I add a take to a media item. I add items to my marquee selection.

[MichaJo]

In principle you're right.
There should be a consistent nomenclature.
I think it's a lot of work to "re-engineer" it.
(Possibly a kind of cross-reference of synonyms could be a workaround?)
But first you'd have to consolidate it regarding content and meaning.

E.G. "Time selection" vs "Current Time Selection".
IIRC there are the SWS extensions where you have slots for storing and restoring time selections?...

[Argitoth]

Let me know if you guys find any more, ill add it to the first post. Disagreements with my ideas are welcome.

[semiquaver]

IIRC "insert/add"

[Tod]

Not this though..

"1" NOT "01"

Zeros are needed to keep things in order. Many times if zeros aren't used a 10, 11, 12, etc. will come before a 1.

[Susan G]

I definitely agree that it would be good to have more consistency in naming actions. See http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=121094.

Maybe it's too late now? Dunno. It may be that changing the Action List and Menu commands at this point would do more harm than good, but then again I remember a time when there was no "Transpose," in the ME, only "Move notes up/down," and I think changing that was a good thing !

-Susan

[Tod]

Originally Posted by run, megalodon

I don't think it has to be that way. I forget the name, but there is some kind of sorting procedure like alphabetical that will put numbers in the right order.

Yes it can be a little strange, although usually (nearly always for me), 01 is ahead of 10 which I guess means that a "0" comes before a "space". However there are times when that's not the case. I will say this though I think a 01 will always precede a 10.

Really there should be some categories to help things as well instead of one giant list. Especially for noobs who don't know whats there.

Heh heh, I don't think it's just noobies that will benefit from some kind of organizing.

On the other hand it could cause some confusion when it comes to searching. At the very least it would take some deep thought to work right.

Originally Posted by Susan G

Maybe it's too late now? Dunno. It may be that changing the Action List and Menu commands at this point would do more harm than good, but then again I remember a time when there was no "Transpose," in the ME, only "Move notes up/down," and I think changing that was a good thing !

Yeah, when you stop and think about it, just think how many custom actions and macros will stop functioning if things were to change. I've got a bunch of them and I'm rather new to Reaper compared to most of you folks.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Tod

Yeah, when you stop and think about it, just think how many custom actions and macros will stop functioning if things were to change.

They wouldn't stop functioning. Changing the name of an action is not the same as changing the action ID. Action ID stays the same. Action name changes. Two different things.

[Susan G]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

They wouldn't stop functioning. Changing the name of an action is not the same as changing the action ID. Action ID stays the same. Action name changes. Two different things.

True. I was thinking more about finding things in the Action List using the filter. Sometimes it takes a couple of false starts to find things as it is, so the more naming consistency the better, IMO.

-Susan

[Tod]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

They wouldn't stop functioning. Changing the name of an action is not the same as changing the action ID. Action ID stays the same. Action name changes. Two different things.

Aah ED but will the previous macros follow the names or the IDs. If old macros automatically change the names of the associated actions that would be great.

Then maybe it isn't too late.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

Aah ED but will the previous macros follow the names or the IDs. If old macros automatically change the names of the associated actions that would be great.

Then maybe it isn't too late.

The entire reason for their having IDs would be to prevent that. If they were tied to the names behind the scenes instead of the ID, there would be no need for IDs.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

The entire reason for their having IDs would be to prevent that. If they were tied to the names behind the scenes instead of the ID, there would be no need for IDs.

Probably karbo, I hadn't thought about it much, I sort of associated the IDs with action markers and cycling actions.

So no matter whether they are Command IDs or Custom IDs, the names of the root actions can be changed without consequence.

That's great, so now all we need is someone to go through and make the changes.

[Susan G]

Originally Posted by Tod

Probably karbo, I hadn't thought about it much, I sort of associated the IDs with action markers and cycling actions.

So no matter whether they are Command IDs or Custom IDs, the names of the root actions can be changed without consequence.

That's great, so now all we need is someone to go through and make the changes.

But then that someone would have to update the changes every time there's a new REAPER version, right? Custom actions are stored separately, but not the native ones, AFAIK.

-Susan

[Reno.thestraws]

Cough*** and you can't imagine how it's hard to translate the langpack. It's pain in the ass ***cough


Edit: and... You can use langpack to change action names...

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Susan G

But then that someone would have to update the changes every time there's a new REAPER version, right? Custom actions are stored separately, but not the native ones, AFAIK.

-Susan

Humm, not sure I follow you Susan, if all macros and the actions in those macros are referenced by ID and not the name then I'm assuming even if the name changes, the actions will remain the same based on the IDs.

Now I'm assumeing any name changes are going to be made by one of the cockos team, and for the SWS it will be the persons associated with those extensions.

I think if it's done once and you've got them as part of your working Reaper, it should take care of itself and go on from there just like it does now. Right?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Tod

So no matter whether they are Command IDs or Custom IDs, the names of the root actions can be changed without consequence.

I can't guarantee but having unique IDs while still depending on free text names for uniqueness would be a little odd. It can't be that hard to test.

[Susan G]

Originally Posted by Tod

Humm, not sure I follow you Susan, if all macros and the actions in those macros are referenced by ID and not the name then I'm assuming even if the name changes, the actions will remain the same based on the IDs.

Now I'm assumeing any name changes are going to be made by one of the cockos team, and for the SWS it will be the persons associated with those extensions.

I think if it's done once and you've got them as part of your working Reaper, it should take care of itself and go on from there just like it does now. Right?

Hi Tod-

Sure, if Cockos or SWS does this, but by "someone" I thought you meant "some one of us users." I doubt going through and making name changes to make the action names more consistent is high on their list of priorities, though. That's why I said it may be too late, even though I think it's a good idea.

-Susan

[Argitoth]

Originally Posted by run, megalodon

View/Show: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=103177
Height/Zoom: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=97035

Originally Posted by semiquaver

IIRC "insert/add"

Originally Posted by Susan G

I definitely agree that it would be good to have more consistency in naming actions. See http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=121094.

added to the list. BTW, there is a good use for the word "erase", you can read about it in my updated post.

Also, the whole "01" vs "1" debate: If you so love to see "01" then why not make it "001"? Because after all, if there's only one zero, the sorting only works up to 99. That's why we need to just make sorting more logical. Let's please all agree that 1 is is better than 01 with the correct sorting.

AND YES YOU CAN CHANGE NAMES OF ACTIONS WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE! With my macros, I do it all the time.

[Argitoth]

oh and here's the scary part: Hey, this is just English. I wonder what nomenclature apocalypse has befallen the other languages.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I can't guarantee but having unique IDs while still depending on free text names for uniqueness would be a little odd. It can't be that hard to test.

How would you go about testing this karbo? Is there an ini file somewhere? How do yu gain access to the name so you can change it without changing the IDs.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Argitoth

Also, the whole "01" vs "1" debate: If you so love to see "01" then why not make it "001"? Because after all, if there's only one zero, the sorting only works up to 99. That's why we need to just make sorting more logical. Let's please all agree that 1 is is better than 01 with the correct sorting.

Argitoth, there are several actions that use slots for saving and retrieving. Some of them us Slot 1, 2, etc. and are usually screwed up with 10, 11, 12, etc. There are also some that use 01, 02, etc. and these fall in place very nicely. As far as going up to or beyond 99, there's very little call for that. Few if any will go that far.

AND YES YOU CAN CHANGE NAMES OF ACTIONS WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE! With my macros, I do it all the time.

Heh heh, yes we can all do that but can you change the name of a regular Reaper or SWS action?

[Argitoth]

Originally Posted by Tod

Argitoth, there are several actions that use slots for saving and retrieving. Some of them us Slot 1, 2, etc. and are usually screwed up with 10, 11, 12, etc. There are also some that use 01, 02, etc. and these fall in place very nicely. As far as going up to or beyond 99, there's very little call for that. Few if any will go that far.

No, you don't go that far only because you don't have huge tasks to perform with REAPER. I do. I make use of thousands of markers, and some people make use of hundreds of tracks. With scripting, anything can go beyond 99.

Originally Posted by Tod

Heh heh, yes we can all do that but can you change the name of a regular Reaper or SWS action?

no I cannot. SWS has to, and the REAPER devs have to do it. Only they hold the power! GOOOO CAPTAIN PLANET! Clean up this environmental naming hazard.
edit: removed for stupidity

[semiquaver]

we need a system of actions with scope like in VIM - in vis there are scopes like

to the end '$'
To the beginning '^'
to the start of the next word 'w'
to the end of current word 'e'
to the end of paragraph '}'

as well as numbers - '1', '2' 3' etc

commands like

'change' 'c'
'select' 'v'
'delete' 'd'

etc are combined with the scopes (in VIM they call them "gestures") to make compound commands

so d4e will delete until the end of the 4th word v4} will select until the end of the 4th paragraph. Very powerful...

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Argitoth

No, you don't go that far only because you don't have huge tasks to perform with REAPER. I do. I make use of thousands of markers, and some people make use of hundreds of tracks. With scripting, anything can go beyond 99.

Heh heh, well I guess if it's that big a problem for you then it's fine with me and if it helps you make thousands of markers and hundreds of tracks I certainly wouldn't want to make it more difficult for you.

[Argitoth]

Well, what do we have here? Shall I rename all 9 macros one by one to satisfy the sorting Gods? Damnit! :\

[drew]

Originally Posted by Tod

Not this though..



Zeros are needed to keep things in order. Many times if zeros aren't used a 10, 11, 12, etc. will come before a 1.

I was pretty sure an extra space in the text would fix that...

Track 1
Track 9
Track 10

etc. May depend on implementation though

[James HE]

I think all actions should use the following format.

"Move the dohickey to the whatchamacalit within the thingy."


would make this all clear

[G-Sun]

I think the OP has a great point.

m2c:
- There will never be one correct term for all things.
- We need some sort of sorting -maybe native tags, maybe colors, maybe user-defined tags.
- Then there are many different versions some of the actions. Could preferable be collapsable/expandable in the list.

And BTW: Man gave name to all things, not God

[bradleyfilms]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Cough*** and you can't imagine how it's hard to translate the langpack. It's pain in the ass ***cough


Edit: and... You can use langpack to change action names...

I don't think they're listening, or at least haven't read your post.
So I'll just bump it.
Steve

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Argitoth

Well, what do we have here? Shall I rename all 9 macros one by one to satisfy the sorting Gods? Damnit! :\

That indeed is irritating. One would think that Reaper could use a "logical" sorting that actually makes sense.

[Banned]

+1 for more consistency and common sense.

Some improvements in terminology would be welcome as well. E.g. "transpose" instead of "move notes".

Originally Posted by Argitoth

[...] "Erase" should only be used when the action has to do with the mouse. I drag my mouse to erase. I click my mouse to erase. I do not click my mouse to delete. I click my mouse to select and THEN I PRESS A BUTTON to delete. Erase is one step. Delete is two. [...]

For the sake of correct terms, I'd suggest "pointer device" instead of "mouse", too. I haven't seen a mouse in weeks (laptop with trackpad, pen tablet) but move the pointer all the time.

[Argitoth]

Banned, being sarcastic? We can turn the mouse into an Erasor. That is why we need the word Erase.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Cough*** and you can't imagine how it's hard to translate the langpack. It's pain in the ass ***cough


Edit: and... You can use langpack to change action names...

Originally Posted by bradleyfilms

I don't think they're listening, or at least haven't read your post.
So I'll just bump it.
Steve

Heh heh, okay fellas, where do we get it and how does it work. I tried to google it and see Reaper has it available for translating Reaper to different languages but how does this help renaming Actions?

[Argitoth]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Edit: and... You can use langpack to change action names...

I highly doubt that. So you change one word... now every instance of that word is changed? That doesn't solve the problem. Edit: Ok, if one word change affects every instance of the word, that would help 50% of the problems.

[Reno.thestraws]

Originally Posted by Argitoth

I highly doubt that. So you change one word... now every instance of that word is changed? That doesn't solve the problem. Edit: Ok, if one word change affects every instance of the word, that would help 50% of the problems.

nope, there's a section at the bottom of the txt file only for action list

[Argitoth]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

nope, there's a section at the bottom of the txt file only for action list

Are you kidding me? You took that long to reveal this information?

OK Could you tell everyone how to access it? We need a ReaActions like we have a ReaMenu, methinks.

Edit: This?: http://www.cockos.com/reaper/langpack/
Edit2: Uhhh, so how do we foolish Americans access the English (US) langpack? Anyone who is European can download the English (UK) langpack.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

nope, there's a section at the bottom of the txt file only for action list

So where do we get it Reno? Maybe explain a little more?

[Reno.thestraws]

I just did the test right now

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ReaperLangpack


I only change the action (ID 2000) : prompt to continue (only valid in custom action"

"to prompt to continue the loop"

Just check by yourself

install the langpack and see (drag and drop the langpack file and restart REAPER)

if you want to change some action

- change extension name of the langpack file to .txt and open it in a txt editor
- make a search (ctrl + F) for the line : 1AA754B58DA60919 (A97D415B0FD742FD for MIDI editor action list)
you've got the entire action list to edit

- for editing a line, remove the ";" at the start of the line and edit

- when finished, go at the top of txt file and give it a name and save it

- now, remove the .txt extension and name it .ReaperLangPack

- drag your brand new langpack in Reaper and restart



If you want to turn back to original langpack, go in preferences -> language and choose default (or prompt on load) and Restart Reaper



Oh and... i mentionned it at post 17 of this thread

[Reno.thestraws]

SWS actions are not part of the langpack, ask the SWS guys (jeffos) to get the SWS langpack

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

install the langpack and see (drag and drop the langpack file and restart REAPER)

The only langpack I could find is called: uk.ReaperLangPack.

Is that it?

I did a search for 1AA754B58DA60919 but no findee.