v6.27+dev0418 - April 18 2021

[Edgemeal]

v6.27+dev0418 - April 18 2021
* Includes feature branch: EEL2 x86_64/SSE
* Includes feature branch: VST3 bridging
* Includes feature branch: ReaSurroundPan
* Includes feature branch: media item lanes
+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors
+ Theme: add razor_env, razor_env_l, razor_env_r cursors
+ macOS: improve behavior when scanning VST plug-ins that present modal UI

Full changelog / Latest pre-releases

[Edgemeal]

+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

I can move points Up, Down, and Tilt , pretty cool!

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

I can move points Up, Down, and Tilt , pretty cool!

Here it is, thank you devs this is so important ! <3. Once this hits the MIDI CC editor it'll be game over. This is tremendous already.

[fakemaxwell]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

I can move points Up, Down, and Tilt , pretty cool!

Yep, extremely useful. The only other addition that would be very handy would be this part of juliansaders tool:



Maybe allow it to be used with a mouse scroll wheel? This may not be everybody's experience but I basically always have to feather in the sides of any type of envelope edit like this.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

v6.27+dev0418 - April 18 2021
+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

After smiling and immediately putting this to use, my only thoughts:

1. The Tilt hotspots operate at the left and right edge of the envelope itself - this is problematic if the envelope veers towards the top/bottom of the lane because it conflicts with Resize Razor Edit Area hotspot of the RE.

Not sure what is best, but I definitely struggled fighting between Tilt and Resize RE as they occupied the same hotspot when the envelope was near the top/bottom.


juliansader's script solves this by having the Tilt hotspots exist outside the RE, but it's less intuitive because you're interacting with a tool instead of the points directly.


I do love how tactile today's implementation is though - you want to drag the points down so you pull them down, it's perfect. It's just the Tilt stuff that can maybe be massaged?

:::edit:::
What if the RE envelope actions operated on the center of the RE rather than near the envelope itself? Top/Bottom/Sides of RE have their own actions, center has its own?

[ferropop]

Also when you get to adding Compress/Expand Envelope in RE, again these will conflict with the Resize hotspots.

Juliansader's tool foregoes all these issues by adding the funky tool GUI, but if there's a way to make this all work cleanly on the RE itself that sounds best.

Ableton has tiny squares signifying the Tilt/Compress/Expand handles.

Just some ideas.

[n997]

+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

This, and other improvements in recent months (including ME rework, the whole RE feature, and all the small quality-of-life updates) are making REAPER ever more amazing.

Thanks!

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

v6.27+dev0418 - April 18 2021
+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

This is so very welcome.

If I draw an RE on a straight envelope, then max out the envelope segment using the new editing behaviors, I can't "grab" the top of the envelope again to adjust it further.



Steps:

1. Start with a straight envelope segement
2. Draw an RE
3. Use the new editing behavior to max out the envelope (you'll see the mouse modifier change)
4. Let go of the mouse
5. Attempt to grab the maxed out envelope in the same RE to bring it down some

Result: you can't.

[Mercado_Negro]

+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

Now we're talking! Thank you!

[deeb]

Since you are in the cycle of taking care of envelopes with RE i would like to kindly ask to consider the snapping to neighbour values or existing envelope points values in envelope lane that should work for both: RE and Envelope Points Selection.

This hugely helps having fast precision when editing envelopes points - volume, filters, delay tempo etc.

If feasible i think the best and more useful would be to snap to every existing points already in envelope lane but would be already very useful and probably the simplest way is to consider as neighbour just the last and next envelope point , which allows to have a perfectly horizontal segment between neighbours very quickly.

This feature could go crazy and transversal between "envelope lane and osc/midi learn and mod" which i try to explain on 3)

I paste here 3 different requests in FR forum :

1) req: Modifier for CC and Envelopes to Snap to Nearby Points
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=226794

2) vertical snapping in automation envelopes
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2220357

and going a bit deeper and complex:
3) Req: Param Anchor points for envelope lane and osc/midi learn and mod
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=225652

[cool]

Tilt with Razor, that's cool! But also, I would love to see the mouse modifiers to tilt the selected points.

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by cool

But also, I would love to see the mouse modifiers to tilt the selected points.

And allowing us to set same value for ALL selected points, not only one.

[hans]

This is just amazing! Thanks guys. You're the best!


Taking the opportunity to sneak a request in. You are probably already aware of it but I'm forwarding this anyway.

Originally posed by Sexan in his Area Selection thread.

Originally Posted by Sexan

Adjusting fades on right click drag, edge limiting and etc

Would it be possible to implement this? Adjusting fades like this would be a such time saver.
Adjusting the fades is something that is time consuming today.

[rstockm]

Originally Posted by hans

Would it be possible to implement this? Adjusting fades like this would be a such time saver.
Adjusting the fades is something that is time consuming today.

Agreed. I'd like to see this for all kinds of envelopes, and both outwards and inwards (the fades).

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

v6.27+dev0418 - April 18 2021
+ Razor edit: add razor edit envelope editing behaviors

YAY!! Will test later when back home, thanks a lot! In the meantime does it work bipolar or just unipolar?

Would be great to adjust both ways with modifiers, so maybe a dedicated context?

[lerian]

Open reaper > open project > play around > click new project > close reaper

"Reaper quit unexpectedly" window appears.

reaper_host_x86_64 remains hanged in memory taking about 50% cpu.

OSX 10.14.6 / 2015 Intel i7 mobile @ 2.8

[bolgwrad]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

I can move points Up, Down, and Tilt , pretty cool!

Yep, it's really, really useful and works like pooled automation items across tracks in multiple REs - but it took me a while to work out it only happens in an envelope lane. I get the sexy new envelope cursors in a regular track RE area, but not the actions, which is a bit confusing.

[Vagelis]

Ok back after testing, I love that we can adjust multiple envelope parts with multiple REs, could you please add support for media and most important take envelopes?
Especially take envelopes since we can't mod them with AI or RE but only with TS. Then RE could start being an all around tool.

Even if there are multiple take envelopes on an item and we create an RE, it would be nice if the mouse could detect each take lane and adjust it accordingly.

Some extra thoughts:
I saw there's already a envelope context, would be nice to have also bipolar mod to adjust both sides at the same time, just like AI's amplitude function.

Any thoughts for adding some AI functions in RE envelope modifiers?

Also the envelope mod is broken with AIs, when we adjust the shapes are changing.

And last, any chance to be able and drag points with RE in its boundaries as we can do with TS?

[Vagelis]

Some more thoughts that might sound crazy.

Would it be possible to loop the RE contents from the edge? This would be useful to draw the shape we selected

Also Ableton has a dedicated RE menu which contains the basic shapes to paste in RE.
A shape menu that would let us copy in slots and paste the shapes in RE would be extremely amazing.

Sorry if it's too much, super excited and great work as always!!!

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Would it be possible to loop the RE contents from the edge? This would be useful to draw the shape we selected

Also Ableton has a dedicated RE menu which contains the basic shapes to paste in RE.
A shape menu that would let us copy in slots and paste the shapes in RE would be extremely amazing.

Not sure what all these mean.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by vitalker

Not sure what all these mean.

That's why i wrote they might sound a bit crazy

[mccrabney]

this seems new:



create AI in media lane
create RE
move RE away and then back, leaving split
create envelope point in one of the newly created AI
issue: AI acts as if it were not split

[mccrabney]

adding "razor edit envelope area" makes it a lot harder to grab and move RE segments that contain envelopes in the media lane. now, a user has to aim much more carefully for non-AI occupied section of the RE selection.

part of RE's big benefit is that users can create blocks that can be moved without carefully aiming for (potentially small) item contents.

i propose that "razor edit envelope area" only applies to envelopes in the envelope lane, not the media lane.

alternatively, AI in the media lane should have some sort of modifier to enable envelope manipulation via RE -- but not by aiming for an area with the mouse (edit - already done)

[mccrabney]

if the envelope is at 100% height, the user can't trigger the "razor edit envelope area" mouse modifier -- the "resize AI handle" appears seems to supersede any of the new envelope tilt/move modifier tools.



not shown in gif: note that this doesn't happen with envelopes at 0% height - the modifier cursor changes and everything works OK until you bring it to 100% height.

this makes me wonder again (edit-done already) if some sort of RE-envelope-edit-enabling-modifier should be required before envelopes can be manipulated via RE, instead of just aiming the mouse at an envelope area. there are already so many things to aim at, it'd be a lot nicer to just wave the mouse instead of being so precise.

[mccrabney]

EDIT - done already, great work -- maybe the potential issue i address below would be resolved if the "move/tilt" mouse modifier action was applied to ctrl left drag instead of default-left drag

adding "razor edit envelope area" makes it a lot harder to grab and move RE segments that contain envelopes in the media lane. now, a user has to aim much more carefully for non-AI occupied section of the RE selection.

here's a demonstration of a situation that will arise due to too many hotspots:



here, i create an RE over an item that is crawling with media lane AI (very typical in my world). i then try to click and drag that item here and there. i'm only successful some 50% of the time -- the other part of the time, my mouse is unintentionally snagging an RE envelope hotspot.

i see that we can turn off the action in the "razor edit envelope area" mouse modifier page. this solves the issue, but it also eliminates the feature for envelope lanes, where it is more sensibly used.

RE were/are different than items in that they're not crawling with mouse hotspots that do different things. particularly when you're working with AI over items in the media lane, you end up with a hotspot frenzy. in contrast, REs require very little conscious aiming - you just mouse to the middle of the RE area and clickdrag, bypassing all of the hotspots that we had to so carefully avoid before RE.

let's please keep them that way and instead enable those valuable envelope hotspots via modifier - so that they only appear when a user intends to grab them, rather than lying in wait 100% of the time.

[Mercado_Negro]

I think a few modifiers for compression or expansion of points in razor edit area would be useful. Like this:

[mccrabney]

^ those clever devs travelled back in time and fulfilled my request - if you apply the razor edit envelope area mouse modifier to something other than "default action" for left drag, it behaves as i requested above.

thank you! i'll leave that content above for reference, but awesome work.

[Mercado_Negro]

I've been thinking about asking for something that maybe it's easy to implement with an option in Preferences, I don't know how complicated it might be.

In Nuendo, if you create a range selection and then click or cmd+click one or more tracks/envelope tracks ("panel" in REAPER) the range is expanded or moved to the selected tracks. Like this:



You can't imagine how useful this is when you're working on projects with lots of tracks. For example, let's say you need to automate the volume on a VCA lead track but that VCA is at the bottom of the tracklist so you can't actually see the VCA tracks that are following because they're at the top. In this case you scroll up to see the VCA tracks that are following, create the razor edit area there so you can see excatly what you need to cover with the area and then scroll down and click on the VCA lead track (panel). The razor area moves to the VCA lead track and you can do your automation with precision.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I think a few modifiers for compression or expansion of points in razor edit area would be useful. Like this:

Def, that’s a perfect example with bipolar transform as i mentioned above.

[deeb]

i love those mouse handlers too.

[ferropop]

This is exciting stuff! When envelopes manipulations are fully sorted, and RE can be used on MIDI CC (with Tilt, Expand, Compress!) we will by flying!

ie: want to quiet the dynamics of the entire string section? RE the CC1 lanes for all the strings, and drag down. Done.

[ferropop]

^This is doable if you use ReaControlMIDI for drawing CCs in Arrange, but the visual separation between your MIDI notes and the CCs is not ideal. You might think MIDI Inline Editor so that your notes and CC curves are together, but then you lose the myriad of useful modifiers exclusive to MIDI Editor. We have this situation:

MIDI Editor only: has everything but is missing Razor Edits, and drawing CCs feels different (worse) than Arrange View envelopes.

MIDI Editor with ReaControlMIDI for CC: has benefit of Razor Edits in Arrange View but you are jumping back and fourth between MIDI Editor and Arrange which feels super disconnected

Inline MIDI Editor with ReaControlMIDI for CC: benefit of Razor Edits but missing all the useful modifiers from MIDI Editor

Ultimately they could all be tied together by having RE exist in the MIDI Editor, and CCs existing natively in Arrange View as lanes, without needing ReaControlMIDI (as in every other DAW). The disconnect between the two is one of the largest gaps in consistency across the entire DAW imo.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Def, that’s a perfect example with bipolar transform as i mentioned above.

+1000

[benmrx]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I've been thinking about asking for something that maybe it's easy to implement with an option in Preferences, I don't know how complicated it might be.

In Nuendo, if you create a range selection and then click or cmd+click one or more tracks/envelope tracks ("panel" in REAPER) the range is expanded or moved to the selected tracks. Like this:



You can't imagine how useful this is when you're working on projects with lots of tracks. For example, let's say you need to automate the volume on a VCA lead track but that VCA is at the bottom of the tracklist so you can't actually see the VCA tracks that are following because they're at the top. In this case you scroll up to see the VCA tracks that are following, create the razor edit area there so you can see excatly what you need to cover with the area and then scroll down and click on the VCA lead track (panel). The razor area moves to the VCA lead track and you can do your automation with precision.

+1. I'm able to get a somewhat similar behavior as you can see below, but the implementation could be smoother. FWIW, I've been spending the last couple of weeks diving back into Reaper. All because of Razor Edits. It's 'THE' feature I was waiting for. FWIW, I'm coming from Nuendo (and was a PT user for 20 years before that).



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EDIT
I posted a couple of scripts here that roughly give the behavior Mercado_Negro mentions for adding/removing razor edit areas to tracks. The behavior is a little better than in the Licecap above as you no longer need to drag the edge of a razor area to extend it to other tracks.
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=398

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[ferropop]

Originally Posted by benmrx

+1. I'm able to get a somewhat similar behavior as you can see below, but the implementation could be smoother. FWIW, I've been spending the last couple of weeks diving back into Reaper. All because of Razor Edits. It's 'THE' feature I was waiting for. FWIW, I'm coming from Nuendo (and was a PT user for 20 years before that).

Sorry off topic (!) but how did you get that vertical line to appear over your items?

[benmrx]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Sorry off topic (!) but how did you get that vertical line to appear over your items?

I tweaked this script a bit to suit my needs:
Script: amagalma_Toggle show editing guide line on item under mouse cursor in Main Window or in MIDI Editor.lua

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by fakemaxwell

Yep, extremely useful. The only other addition that would be very handy would be this part of juliansaders tool:

[...]

Maybe allow it to be used with a mouse scroll wheel? This may not be everybody's experience but I basically always have to feather in the sides of any type of envelope edit like this.

Just a heads-up that with recent versions of the Multi Tool, you can do this kind of symmetric feathering with a single action: