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Old 07-06-2017, 08:16 PM   #1
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Default Help with understanding a limiter

I've got a track that is too quiet. I poked around and found a recommendation to try LoudMax, which I like.

For reasons not worth explaining, I first tried it on stereo mixdown wav of my project. This gave pretty good results, but I wanted to compare different settings, and rendering to wav and reimporting seemed cumbersome.

So I unhid the master track and put LoudMax on and rendered to MP3, but it doesn't do the same thing. The waveform is not "normalized" as compared to the others, and it shows much less peaks/valleys, ie it's a smaller thick line as opposed to a normal peaks view.

snip additional comparison steps that were not apples to oranges

I finally rendered the full project to a stereo wav using the exact same settings as I'd done on the mixdown, and it neither looks nor sounds the same.

Why would that be?

Top track: mixdown of full project to wav, and rerender with LoudMax set to -15 threshold and -1 limit

Second track: MP3 render of full project to -13 threshold and -0.5 limit

Third track: MP3 render of full project to -13 threshold and -1 limit

Fourth track: MP3 render of full project to -13 threshold and -1 limit, with master fader set to 0 (Master fader has been at -5 on all other renders)

Fifth track: Wav render of full project to -15 threshold and -1 limit, with master fader at -5. The "apples to apples comparison; expectation is that it's the same as the top one.
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Last edited by Reason; 07-06-2017 at 08:20 PM. Reason: added screenshot and legend
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:44 AM   #2
Ulf3000
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on the master channel the limiter sits before the fader i.e. it gets the signal as if you exported at 0 dB , not -5
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:50 AM   #3
ashcat_lt
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^^^Yep.

So when you first exported (without the limiter), Master was at -5? That makes all the difference in the world.

If the plug has input gain, turn that to -5db. Otherwise stick JS Volume before that plug and bring it down to -5db, but for safety's sake, turn its Max Volume Parameter way up.

Edit - Actually setting Threshold to -10 should theoretically do the same thing, but I'd almost bet that this plugin won't do exactly the same thing, so just turn the mic down before it even gets here.

Also, of course, you'll need to reset your Master to unity.
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:26 PM   #4
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OK, thanks. That helps. I don't think I understand exactly what's happening but experimentation will teach me better, and having a direction to go and/or look helps a lot.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:27 AM   #5
bobobo
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So .. talking about limiter and using loudmax is not on the spot as
loudmax isn't a pure limiter, more a maximizer.
It contains a limiter part, but uses more to acomplish what it does superbly.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
^^^Yep.

So when you first exported (without the limiter), Master was at -5? That makes all the difference in the world.
Yes. I exported the project, which had the master at -5, to a stereo wav; imported that wav into a new project as a stereo track, and exported with LoudMax on the track.

Quote:
If the plug has input gain, turn that to -5db. Otherwise stick JS Volume before that plug and bring it down to -5db, but for safety's sake, turn its Max Volume Parameter way up.

Edit - Actually setting Threshold to -10 should theoretically do the same thing, but I'd almost bet that this plugin won't do exactly the same thing, so just turn the mic down before it even gets here.

Also, of course, you'll need to reset your Master to unity.
(It's all MIDI, this project.) So, in other words, resetting the master to unity, with JS Volume and then Loudmax on the master track, with JS Volume at -5, *should* give me very similar results to my export > import > export method as above?

I know I should just try it but it's been a really busy weekend.

Quote:
So .. talking about limiter and using loudmax is not on the spot as
loudmax isn't a pure limiter, more a maximizer.
It contains a limiter part, but uses more to acomplish what it does superbly.
What exactly is it doing? I'd think it's increasing the volume of its input, up to a certain level at which point it is limited.

However when I tried something similar manually, i got terrible results. It's probably user error but I don't understand my error so it's hard to correct.
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