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07-18-2011, 02:28 PM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: portland, or
Posts: 208
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love the suggestions. Would like to add..
For ultimate user satisfaction, how about a pref tab that allows the user to specify target folder; eg: ../peaks = .reapeaks, where user is able to input the "peaks" part. Thus, if user A wants all in one folder, they can assign as such. Absent of user input, a default folder assignment would be in place. (not sure i explained that well enough).
For something like the "Bounces" and "Stems" folder nesting, maybe a combination of the former and some checkboxes that allow defining of such nesting?
__________________
nikki
Top FR's: Real panner ala Cubendo ; Mono track capability! ; Track Output = Software, not just Hardware |W7x64 |i7 920|Gigabyte UD5|12G ram|MSI GTX275|TX750PSU|MR816X|
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07-18-2011, 02:43 PM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
I don't think so, because the whole idea is that we simply decide what these folder should be called, and then reaper creates them as needed within our project directory.
I don't see the benefit of being able to change the names of each folder for specific projects.
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Aaahh, heh heh, aren't we getting a little lazy?
Yes that would definitely be koool but if it's in the "Prefs", then it should have it's own subtitle under Projects or something like that, Prefs are pretty confuseing as it is.
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07-18-2011, 02:47 PM
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#43
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Yeah, we need a new page with 24 options and 36 checkboxes plus some fields to fill up with 4 or 8 random places to store out data just in case a global catastrophe hits us in our way to create a new project.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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07-18-2011, 03:07 PM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 151
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This is an absolute must do. I'm just finishing the soundtrack to a film. 4400+ audio items across 5 project files and every one has a peaks file stuffed in the same folder. Backup files (set to 15 minute intervals - has saved my ass more than a few times)also in the same folder. Not a pretty sight. Just cleaning out old bak files is a major chore and there's always the fear of deleting the project file by accident.
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07-18-2011, 03:33 PM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Yeah, we need a new page with 24 options and 36 checkboxes plus some fields to fill up with 4 or 8 random places to store out data just in case a global catastrophe hits us in our way to create a new project.
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We already have a "Paths" page, and it already has enough space to accomodate additions ... they just need to be enabled for "paths relative to project directory", just as the media file path in the project settings dialogue already is ...
... call me naive, but it seems rather straightforward ...
///
@Tod, yes ... yes, I am lazy; that's why I use computers
Last edited by timlloyd; 07-18-2011 at 03:39 PM.
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07-18-2011, 04:09 PM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Yeah, we need a new page with 24 options and 36 checkboxes plus some fields to fill up with 4 or 8 random places to store out data just in case a global catastrophe hits us in our way to create a new project.
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HHahahahahahahaa Que paaaaaaaaaaadrisisisisimo!! This the funniest sentences of the DAY. We need all tones of options for this
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07-18-2011, 04:21 PM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
@Tod, yes ... yes, I am lazy; that's why I use computers
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Gotchya.
Quote:
We already have a "Paths" page, and it already has enough space to accomodate additions ... they just need to be enabled for "paths relative to project directory", just as the media file path in the project settings dialogue already is ...
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Of course they would have to be set up to simply type in the name of the folder you want to use for each part without a "Browse.." button.
Then there would have to be something added to the menu under "File", at least one subcatagory. Something like:
Save Project using Prefereces SubFolders
Or maybe a checkbox of some kind when you do a "Save project as".
Last edited by Tod; 07-18-2011 at 04:40 PM.
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07-18-2011, 04:40 PM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Unless I'm mistaken, it's as simple as:
[IMG]http://img585.**************/img585/9621/screenshot20110719at003.png[/IMG]
... doing that ^^ for the other paths, isn't it? If you type in a folder name instead of choosing a path or leaving it blank, reaper automatically creates a folder with that name in your project folder ...
It seems like the most seamless, characteristically optional way of doing it ... which is imperative, because it would be a travesty if users were forced by their software to engage in sensible file management
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07-18-2011, 04:49 PM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
Unless I'm mistaken, it's as simple as:
[IMG]http://img585.**************/img585/9621/screenshot20110719at003.png[/IMG]
... doing that ^^ for the other paths, isn't it? If you type in a folder name instead of choosing a path or leaving it blank, reaper automatically creates a folder with that name in your project folder ...
It seems like the most seamless, characteristically optional way of doing it ... which is imperative, because it would be a travesty if users were forced by their software to engage in sensible file management
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Huum, so your saying there will be extra Browse buttons in the "Project settings" or if you simply leave the "Paths to save media files" blank then it will create all these subfolders?
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07-18-2011, 04:55 PM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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No, I'm not sure how I can explain any more clearly
[IMG]http://img215.**************/img215/4531/screenshot20110719at005.png[/IMG]
We already have that prefs page.
Take the first field (the "Default render path") for example ...
All that would need to be done from a user's perspective, would be to give that entry field the same function as the media files path in Project Settings.
If, instead of clicking browse and choosing an absolute directory, you simply type in:
"Renders"
... a folder named "Renders" would be automatically created as needed in your project folders, and all files rendered from that project would be put in that folder (how the other daws do it) ...
It's the "can be relative" bit in the image in post 48 (!!) that is important.
And then, all projects are self-sufficient! You can just move their folders around to wherever you want, back and forth, and as long as reaper is on a computer (or flash drive), they can be opened with no media missing, no unnecessary time-wasting peak file calculation (that's been done already somewhere else ... ), all undo files and backup project files available ... like magic!!!
... except it's not magic, it's just basic file management ...
*sigh*
Last edited by timlloyd; 07-18-2011 at 05:07 PM.
Reason: needed to *sigh*
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07-18-2011, 05:44 PM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 224
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+1 for relative paths - better organized project folders needed.
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07-18-2011, 05:49 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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I voted. I also agree that subfolders such as /audio are basically no-brainers.
Karbo
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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07-18-2011, 05:54 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: portland, or
Posts: 208
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thank you Timlloyd. That is all I was attempting to suggest. Since we each may have different ideas of where things should be stored, how they are named, etc., with an app that is already (at times cripplingly) so infused with configurability, something so basic as file management should be afforded the same. And, should have been present much sooner. IMO.
The primary goal, IMO, is to retain transparency for those users who do not desire to utilize this. By default, it should be as simple as possible.. what I have had defined to me as, "noob friendly" (NOT, and I repeat, NOT meant in a disparaging way). While I love configurability with as much depth as possible to be available, I often forget that there are those who desire things to be as simplified as possible, or require simplicity, and sometimes desire to have the ability to "have freedom of options as my knowledge grows."
__________________
nikki
Top FR's: Real panner ala Cubendo ; Mono track capability! ; Track Output = Software, not just Hardware |W7x64 |i7 920|Gigabyte UD5|12G ram|MSI GTX275|TX750PSU|MR816X|
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07-18-2011, 07:30 PM
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#54
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
No, I'm not sure how I can explain any more clearly
[IMG]http://img215.**************/img215/4531/screenshot20110719at005.png[/IMG]
We already have that prefs page.
Take the first field (the "Default render path") for example ...
All that would need to be done from a user's perspective, would be to give that entry field the same function as the media files path in Project Settings.
If, instead of clicking browse and choosing an absolute directory, you simply type in:
"Renders"
... a folder named "Renders" would be automatically created as needed in your project folders, and all files rendered from that project would be put in that folder (how the other daws do it) ...
It's the "can be relative" bit in the image in post 48 (!!) that is important.
And then, all projects are self-sufficient! You can just move their folders around to wherever you want, back and forth, and as long as reaper is on a computer (or flash drive), they can be opened with no media missing, no unnecessary time-wasting peak file calculation (that's been done already somewhere else ... ), all undo files and backup project files available ... like magic!!!
... except it's not magic, it's just basic file management ...
*sigh*
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This is it, simple and basic, it works. kthxbai
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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07-18-2011, 07:37 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
We already have that prefs page.
Take the first field (the "Default render path") for example ...
All that would need to be done from a user's perspective, would be to give that entry field the same function as the media files path in Project Settings.
If, instead of clicking browse and choosing an absolute directory, you simply type in:
"Renders"
... a folder named "Renders" would be automatically created as needed in your project folders, and all files rendered from that project would be put in that folder (how the other daws do it) ...
It's the "can be relative" bit in the image in post 48 (!!) that is important.
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OK, I guess I missed something in a prior post.
So your're proposeing that if we don't use the Browse button and simply type in a name then that name will be created when we what, Create a New Poject? Also those folder names will show up in the Project Settings along with the current path of the Project? Of course all those paths will also have to be in the "Project Settings" in case something needs to be changed. I make changes all the time to accomodate what I'm doing.
Somehow Reaper will need to know when we are actually starting a New Project. Most of the time I simply use "Save Project as.." to start a new project.
Quote:
And then, all projects are self-sufficient! You can just move their folders around to wherever you want, back and forth, and as long as reaper is on a computer (or flash drive), they can be opened with no media missing, no unnecessary time-wasting peak file calculation (that's been done already somewhere else ... ), all undo files and backup project files available ... like magic!!!
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Heh heh, well it sounds a little like magic but I'm sure you've got it all figured out so please forgive this old fart brain of mine tim, it's not nearly as swift as yours.
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07-18-2011, 08:11 PM
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#56
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Hey Tod, I think it has to be done in one of two ways: right in Preferences or added to Project Settings (on a new page). It can't be done in 2 places at the same time (or at least it shouldn't) because it will confuse people. I'd put it in Preferences because I will just add:
Media Files
Reapeaks
Backups
Stems
Renders
to each field and just forget about it for the rest of my days. The thing is you say you make changes all the time to accomodate what you're doing so adding this to Preferences won't work for you (or at least it won't be easy to remember/change). In this (your) case this should be added to Project Settings instead and to be honest I wouldn't really care since I will just do the same: add those names I mentioned before to those fields in Project Settings and forget it (since I've always used a default startup project template it wouldn't hurt me a single bit ... and well, we always have that button called "Save as default project settings" heh).
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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07-19-2011, 01:34 AM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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I really don't mind if it ends up in Preferences or Project Settings. Whichever way accommodates all users best is the way it should ultimately be. I'm like MN, once we have it, I'll just set it up and then blissfully forget that it was ever an issue in the first place
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07-19-2011, 03:00 AM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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+1
and please include a separate folder dedicated to the Media Explorer peak files! No more random peak files in my sample and music collections, thanks!
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07-19-2011, 04:41 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: El Cajon, CA (San Diego)
Posts: 593
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This whole issue of relative project directory assignments and more individual sub-directories to sanitize and organize it, was brought up and discussed (lengthy, IIRC) about one year ago, perhaps a couple of months less.
The result? You guessed it, no comments and no results.
I hope that this time while already in there working on this beta series, we can finally see this happen. At least from my MMQB position, it seems pretty trivial.
Devs, what do you say?
--Bill
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07-19-2011, 04:56 AM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
+1
and please include a separate folder dedicated to the Media Explorer peak files! No more random peak files in my sample and music collections, thanks!
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Interesting problem.
Right now I keep all my peak files in a separate directory, because I don't want my sample library contaminated with zillions of peak files.
The media explorer presents a special case.
On the one hand you want your project peak files all stored in the a separate directory, but would that apply to all the stuff you check out with the media explorer as well ? As a compromise, I think, yes.
Everything you preview in the media explorer or elsewhere gets their peak files (re-)created in the peak file directory of the project.
That would of course slow down previewing a little for new projects, instead of instant-overview. In my case, some ambience tracks can be ten minutes long at 24-bit 96kHz, which may take a while, but that's not as bad as it would have been five years ago when disks and the CPU were a lot slower.
An alternative is to go all-out and store a peakfile cache per disk. The sound manager Basehead (baseheadinc.com) does it this way. It creates a directory at the root level of the disk in which all the overviews live. This would necessitate some offline scanning functions. Scan your disk overnight and the previews would be there instantly for all the samples on your disk. Reaper would update them as needed.
More work for the devs, potentially stronger fragmentation of the disk, which in the case of library drives isn't so bad.
I'd be happy with the first option for now. All peakfiles in the project peakfile-subdirectory.
Last edited by airon; 07-19-2011 at 05:04 AM.
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07-19-2011, 05:02 AM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Maybe store them in the actual Reaper directory?
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07-19-2011, 05:06 AM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bblue
This whole issue of relative project directory assignments and more individual sub-directories to sanitize and organize it, was brought up and discussed (lengthy, IIRC) about one year ago, perhaps a couple of months less.
The result? You guessed it, no comments and no results.
I hope that this time while already in there working on this beta series, we can finally see this happen. At least from my MMQB position, it seems pretty trivial.
Devs, what do you say?
--Bill
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There most probably won't be a discussion with the devs. We can assume they've seen this, and will do it, when they do it.
I know all about the uncertainty. Don't let it get to you .
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07-19-2011, 06:18 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Engineer
Just cleaning out old bak files is a major chore and there's always the fear of deleting the project file by accident.
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With that amount of stuff piling up, a decent file manager is a must, imho. Regardless of how Reaper will manage things now or later, these are handy with everything.
Quick example
https://i.imgur.com/2FV10.gif
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07-19-2011, 07:18 AM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Oh good Almighty God of Organization, please make this happen for v4 or at least during v4.xx
I've been dreaming for 4 years, dreaming with *default* folders for .reapeaks, rpp-bak's, stems and rpp-undo's. I have a dream....
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^^^ YES ^^^
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07-19-2011, 09:04 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro
Hey Tod, I think it has to be done in one of two ways: right in Preferences or added to Project Settings (on a new page). It can't be done in 2 places at the same time (or at least it shouldn't) because it will confuse people. I'd put it in Preferences because I will just add:
Media Files
Reapeaks
Backups
Stems
Renders
to each field and just forget about it for the rest of my days. The thing is you say you make changes all the time to accomodate what you're doing so adding this to Preferences won't work for you (or at least it won't be easy to remember/change). In this (your) case this should be added to Project Settings instead and to be honest I wouldn't really care since I will just do the same: add those names I mentioned before to those fields in Project Settings and forget it (since I've always used a default startup project template it wouldn't hurt me a single bit ... and well, we always have that button called "Save as default project settings" heh).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
I really don't mind if it ends up in Preferences or Project Settings. Whichever way accommodates all users best is the way it should ultimately be. I'm like MN, once we have it, I'll just set it up and then blissfully forget that it was ever an issue in the first place
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Hi guys, the destinations I forsee needing to be changed if not often, at least time to time, would be the "Media FIles", "Stems", and "Renders(Bounces)". Especially the "Media FIles".
> I create a lot of samples for sample libraries and often use "Render items as new takes". Of course these need to go in thier own special directories so they can be easily dealt with later. There may be as many as 20+ separate folders for this.
> I often use "Record: output" for rendering midi (along with other things) and I like to use separate folders for various reasons, easy access for deleteing and updateing being the main thing.
At any rate I think these default folders should be easy to get to with the click of a button and they would also need "Browse" buttons like they do now in Project Settings.
Also, how and when will these defaults be implemented and the directories be created? When you do a "Save Project as.." so that if the default folders don't exist then they will be created?
Sorry my friends, I'm just trying to understand how all this is going to work.
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07-19-2011, 06:08 PM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,528
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Oh yes, +12! Now that the splash screen has a very professional vibe to it, it would be a good time to apply the same professionalism to the file management.
If the paths end up at the Project Settings, there has to be a way to save old projects with the new organizational manner.
But I wouldn't mind if the paths were not selectable by user. If done right, I can't think of a need to change them.
__________________
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.. MacBook Pro 16" Late '19 .. Scarlett 6i6, Saffire Pro 24 DSP (+ADA8000) .. FCA610 .. EVE SC207 .. Focal: Shape 65, Alpha 65, CMS 40, Listen Pro ..
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07-20-2011, 01:12 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrelwood
But I wouldn't mind if the paths were not selectable by user. If done right, I can't think of a need to change them.
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I agree, as long as they're not called "reastems", "rearenders" ... etc ... ugh ... I hate all that
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07-20-2011, 01:24 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
I agree, as long as they're not called "reastems", "rearenders" ... etc ... ugh ... I hate all that
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lol, agreed imho they should be as short as possible (no space etc.)
but descriptive. Personally I'd set them up as: Audio
Backup
MIDI
Peaks
Render
Stems e
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07-20-2011, 01:35 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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That deffo works for me.
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07-21-2011, 06:38 PM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 265
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+ 1
Gembez
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07-22-2011, 03:30 AM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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My only gripe is that "clean project directory" can bite you if you've unknowingly started another project by mistake in the same directory.
A simple "clean directory" function that was cognizant of only deleting files originating with the open project would be useful, or even a separate utility that would show any directories with sound files that were color coded if they belonged to a project/.rpp that wasn't in the same directory.
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07-22-2011, 03:34 AM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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^^ That's a very good point.
I often have multiple project files in each directory for working on different stages of a project ... which is why I've stayed away from the auto-dir clean thing. I do it manually, but upgrading that function is a very good idea.
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07-23-2011, 07:31 AM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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If it presented you with a dialog that showed all the files in said folder, and color coded them so you could see a) what is relevant to the open project and b) what *was* part of the open project so that c) you could see what was "questionable" before you deleted it.
I don't want to think of how many gigs I'm wasting right now because of over the years I've added/swapped drives, computers, bands, projects, false starts (many), accidental duplication through trying to use both x32 and x64, blah blah blah.
I feel I need to devote an entire day - maybe more - to opening every last .rpp file on my drives one at a time, and then resaving them (moving files) to "safe" directories and wiping the old from orbit. At the moment it's the only way to know for sure.
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07-25-2011, 10:38 PM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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boinggg
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07-26-2011, 01:01 PM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eesti
Posts: 2,716
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Or even an auto-clean that looks into all the projects that are saved in the same (open) project directory and wouldn't delete the files that were used in any of these projects.
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07-27-2011, 07:11 AM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbon
Or even an auto-clean that looks into all the projects that are saved in the same (open) project directory and wouldn't delete the files that were used in any of these projects.
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My problem is that, since I've been "in between projects" for.. ack, a few years now, being extremely prolific I tend to put a premium on "how fast can I get an idea down".
Likewise, my drives are a complete mess. An "Auto Clean-Corral Project Tidier" feature for me would:
1) First corral a list of *all* project files on a drive.
2) Corral a list of all associated files per project.
3) On command, tidy the whole mess up by consolidating them all into a directory based on their associated project's name.
4) What's left over, strays and peak files, would then be deposited in a separate folder for "hard drive recycling".
I bet I'm not the only person that would benefit greatly from this. I'm OCD inwardly, not extroverted - while my hard drive is a mess, I despise and hate that it is so unorganized.
It would actually be a psychiatric benefit having such a utility, knowing that afterwards everything would be all nice and neat in their respective directories and I could safely dispose of the rest. I mean, am I the only person who, every time they look in their temp directory they notice some Reaper files, or "oh, there's some in my root directory, uhg", or "oops, resaved that project in a subdirectory of this other project" on and on... uhg, hate thinking about it.
/ I can understand the popularity of the Tao of Apple in hiding all of that, but *I* know it's still there. Uhg.
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08-06-2011, 09:31 AM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 17
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v4.01 and still no relative paths? I was kinda hoping ....
Me personally, I also like to keep my reapeaks with the media .... especially now with the new Project Bay .... I make do. But I'd REALLY like to specify my timestamped backups (in the additional path) as a relative path ... say like '\backup'
That would really clean up my project folder a lot already.
J
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08-06-2011, 09:48 AM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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It certainly would most definitely and very much so; indeed.
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08-06-2011, 09:54 AM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Engineer
Just cleaning out old bak files is a major chore and there's always the fear of deleting the project file by accident.
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This, above all else is arguably the most important reason to have relative paths for non .rpp files. Some people, such as yourself, do this for a living. Accidentally deleting a project file is no small matter.
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08-06-2011, 12:15 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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another plus one from me!
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