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07-11-2011, 12:48 PM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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update
I just corrected a spelling mistake and included a different phrase.
Been thinking over night.
I come from Pro Tools
To my way of thinking Reaper has "Two channel" tracks so the same signal is going down the same speaker wires.
All we do is create two "Aux channels" fed by your source with the source
(In this case your Drum Instrument track )muted at the i/o un-tick the box Master Parent send: end.
These two Aux tracks in stereo, name say BFD Left and BFD right. Then just pan each to your leisure. This will give true central panned Stereo if you need it. Pan to your desire on the left and right Drum aux channels.
However if you want to pan 40 left on left and 20 left on right you can!
Then use your FX on mono on normal tracks for your mono tracks.
My UAD AND Nomad Factory plugins work in mono so they will create a true mono I presume.
I note that Reaper will record Mono tracks from say a true stereo source this is something I always use recording my synth work from Instrument midi to Audio tracks.
Sounds true in my headphones, I tried it as soon as I got up with a new track that has synth on it.
We have to think as you do with a big true mixing desk as Reaper is anyway.
I think this works what do you all think? I may be wrong.
If this seems strange I did it in a hurry!
I normally work in all mono but I intend to do my instrumentals in stereo now.
Grinder
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12-10-2011, 11:49 PM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8
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+1000 for MONO tracks!
I like to mix traditionally in any DAW,
and Reaper shouldn't be an exception.
And mono meters please.
Please.
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01-02-2012, 06:57 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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hey this is a bump
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01-02-2012, 11:36 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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I'd still really like to have this feature; working at 88.2 and using lots of "warmifier" plugins eats a lot of CPU and any savings would be great!
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01-03-2012, 05:18 AM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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+1 to that
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01-16-2012, 02:24 PM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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bumpity bump bump
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01-28-2012, 04:12 AM
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#87
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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transfer from tracker IID#3344
from the tracker ticket 3344:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzuther
I consider this to be a very important addition to Reaper. Ask about any professional recording or mixing engineer about their workflow and they'll tell you that they mostly track/mix mono sources. The reason for this is that mixing stereo sources leads to less "defined" mixes (for lack of a better word). In contrast, mixing mono sources leads to much more clarity in your mixes. This holds not only true for the original recordings, but also for stereo plugins on mono tracks -- not to speak of wasted computer resources. (Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.)
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04-07-2012, 10:14 AM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,824
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As I have posted this should be considered a bug not a request, since I see this as a bug, if you walked into any size studio, they would think you are from mars when you tell them my mono tracks get summed to 2 channels lol on it's track.
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04-08-2012, 11:14 AM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,173
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Wow, a 5 year old thread about a simple request & the reasons for it, and it STILL has not been implemented...
So much for fast updates, 'eh?
__________________
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HP Z600 w/3GHz 12 Core, 48GB Memory, nVidia Quadro 5800, 240GB SSD OS drive, 3 480GB SSD Sample/Storage drives, 18TB External Storage, Dual 27" Monitors
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04-08-2012, 11:17 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf
Wow, a 5 year old thread about a simple request & the reasons for it
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It's not necessarily simple to implement ... I do agree though - this and a few other really old and really popular requests haven't shown up in pres yet, which is disappointing :-/
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04-08-2012, 11:45 AM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Seeing as this thread has popped up again, I thought I'd post the link to the feature request on this page also.
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3344
As far as votes cast, this hasn't actually been one of the more popular feature requests, which kind of surprises me. But then again, I'm easily surprised.
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04-08-2012, 06:00 PM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
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Until this simple feature is implemented I have to use Pro Tools as Reaper just ain't cutting it.
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04-09-2012, 07:01 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,824
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This is why i use reaper only for tracks forsome live stuff. This
mono and no vca groups, is why I don,t mix in it.
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08-30-2012, 05:14 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 642
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Would it be possible to make Reaper support DX plugins with mono input. They don't show up on the list.
thanks
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12-05-2012, 07:14 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 483
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Bump!
I can't believe we don't have this yet! There are some TRULY resource hungry plugins released this year without a separate mono plugin. We really need to be able to force reaper to process only a single channel!
Many of these plugins have the ability "built in" so that it automatically detects when it's on a mono track. Well guess what? Doesn't work in Reaper..
What does this mean? It means that many instruments like a simple snare, kick, tom channels, bass etc. which are usually mono in a lot of typical productions all eat DOUBLE the CPU that they would. This is NOT funny when running CPU heavy plugins like Studio Devil VTP or wavearts Tube plugin.
Not to mention things like Zynaptic Unveil which eats a whopping 25% or more CPU on a modern i7! We really really really REALLY need to be able to force mono in Reaper.
Come on Cockos! You can do it!
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12-05-2012, 08:25 AM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Shaolin => NJ
Posts: 1,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic
Bump!
I can't believe we don't have this yet! There are some TRULY resource hungry plugins released this year without a separate mono plugin. We really need to be able to force reaper to process only a single channel!
Many of these plugins have the ability "built in" so that it automatically detects when it's on a mono track. Well guess what? Doesn't work in Reaper..
What does this mean? It means that many instruments like a simple snare, kick, tom channels, bass etc. which are usually mono in a lot of typical productions all eat DOUBLE the CPU that they would. This is NOT funny when running CPU heavy plugins like Studio Devil VTP or wavearts Tube plugin.
Not to mention things like Zynaptic Unveil which eats a whopping 25% or more CPU on a modern i7! We really really really REALLY need to be able to force mono in Reaper.
Come on Cockos! You can do it!
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oh... my... God... I need $800 QUICK to purchase the hell out of Zynaptic plugins. This makes Melodyne look like a toy. You shouldn't have put me on to this. Shame on you.
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12-05-2012, 09:22 AM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,824
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Yes even taking out one of the ins and outs making it mono, a Stereo plugin still uses the same CPU, just checked here in some plugins.
So Yes without a question we need Mono tracks or be able to force A track into Mono so that we can use plugins on mono tracks that are not mono
For now:
right click the wav file on the MCP and click "Take Channel Mode: MONO DOWNMIX"
At least that takes care of the summing issue with Mono tracks having 2 channels summed when a mono track should only be 1 channel
That creates a lot of problems when Mixing as Mono tracks are sending always 2 channels on the send when again should send only 1 .
I have to put a Js plugin ( found on the forum) that allows you to put 1 going out into 1 or 2 or 1/2 to 1/2 . I add this plugin at the begining of each mono track in case I forget to click the Downmix option ( written above)
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12-05-2012, 12:57 PM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 417
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+1 to mono tracks
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12-05-2012, 01:45 PM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 72
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12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
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First Time Poster, Long Time User. Few plugins do comply with the pin connector configuration which results in significantly reduced CPU resource utilization (sometimes 1/2 latency too). Dealing with large track counts becomes a real problem especially with new plugins that are doing highly intensive real-time calculations (or maybe are poorly coded).
This feature is a must in my book.
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12-10-2012, 11:02 PM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Only ten more "Yes" votes to reach triple-digits! Maybe we should start a PBS style pledge drive?
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01-28-2013, 06:16 AM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 21
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I just did a 5.0 mixdown from 5 mono tracks, and the way I had to configure it was as follows:
Front Left: Track Channels 2, Parent Channels 1-2, Panned Left
Front Right: Track Channels 2, Parent Channels 1-2, Panned Right
Center: Track Channels 2, Parent Channels 3-4, Panned Left
Rear Left: Track Channels 2, Parent Channels 3-4, Panned Right
Rear Right: Track Channels 2, Parent Channels 5-6, Panned Left
So now C and rL are on the same "stereo channels", 3-4, the former panned left and the latter right! Utter confusion, mono channels are direly needed for sanity of multichannel handling.
So +1.
Also, why do I always need to set the track channels to a paired number? Why do I need to have the mixer using 6 channels when I'm doing a 5 channel work?
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01-28-2013, 03:16 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 34
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+1 for mono tracks here, please!
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03-28-2013, 02:20 AM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,268
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At this point it is clear REAPER will probably never have mono tracks..
I wonder why ... what could be the reason?
Is it not worth to save some cpu cycles? maybe not so much now...
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03-28-2013, 12:43 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
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Go Cubendo/PooTools for separate mono/stereo/group/midi/shitti tracks! We don't need no separations!
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03-28-2013, 12:57 PM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjaxis
Go Cubendo/PooTools for separate mono/stereo/group/midi/shitti tracks! We don't need no separations!
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So, we can count on you for a "yes" vote then?
The actual feature request is not to change the operation of the tracks at all, just to make it possible in the plugin pin selector to have one channel as the smallest selectable setting. There may be good reasons why this would be difficult or impossible to implement, I don't know either way; would just be nice to have.
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03-28-2013, 01:05 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 129
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If I need (very rarely) true mono track, I simply use routing like that:
This also saves CPU time when using stereo plugs on mono recordings and when no need stereo output of FX.
When i came from cubendo, i also searched for mono tracks, but now, when i need to work in cubendo, i shit bricks from these separations :P
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03-28-2013, 01:08 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 143
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That does work with some plugs (Slate, Softube...) that seem to detect incoming audio and process accordingly, but not a lot of others that detect the number of incoming channels. Thanks for the suggestion, though!
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03-28-2013, 01:49 PM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
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I just checked and setting ReaVerb to operate with 1 input reduces CPU use here.
I think it depends on how the plug-in is buffered. (and thus possibly depends on user settings.)
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03-28-2013, 02:53 PM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,824
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Of course it does.
The issue here is people are mixing everything wrong in Reaper!!!
When you have a Mono track you add mono fx not stereo like Reaper is doing!!
Reaper does not know that your recorded track is mono
easy test:
record a track ( mono) then apply ReaEq
Look on ReaEq VST pins on the 2in 2 out button
Why did Reaper set the FX to Stereo when we are dealing with a MONO TRACK!!!
The issue is how Reaper deals with Stereo FX on mono tracks, it does not force them to Mono it does not care it feeds the FX with 2 channels even though we recorded and are dealing with a friken mono track!!!
Another test:
record a mono track
now add reasurround fx to it, and in Reasurround MUTE THE 2ND channel
That is now a Real mono track as you took out the 2nd channel
Put the channel 1 ball in the center
goto the track and pan it SEE YOU CAN STILL PAN THE TRACK PROPERLY without the stupit 2nd channel there
It is simple cockos is silly
32 tracks in Reaper use up 64 channels since they each take 2 channels default.
If we had proper mono tracks we would have 64 tracks each using their own channel
This creates a nightmare with channels!!!
Double the CPU on St FX on Mono tracks
Less tracks with 2 channel default (32)
Having to mute the 2nd channel pins on every FX!!
Having to use mono downmixers ( JS and Reasurround) to disable the second channel
One word FUNKED UP!!!
This is why I already explained I record and do quick jobs in Reaper but until Reaper get's Mono tracks, Vca group autmation natively I mix in Sampltiude and do not have the friken Mono track issues!!!
Because of the way Reaper was made this will never be fixed as every track is everything in Reaper which means they must have 2 channels always!! so this makes mixing Mono a very stupid way in Reaper.
FIX IT!!! Did they not see a Console? Mono track 1 channel!!
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03-29-2013, 05:52 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjaxis
If I need (very rarely) true mono track, I simply use routing like that:
This also saves CPU time when using stereo plugs on mono recordings and when no need stereo output of FX.
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That is all fine and dandy for a quick fix. But it becomes a royal PITA when you have to re-do that routine each time you re-open a saved project. IOW, those pin settings are NOT saved with your project. Imagine having dozens of those tracks with a mono pin configuration and having to re-do this each time you re-open a project. Do it with a few projects (dozens of tracks each time) and you will not be so pleasant about it. I am using VST plugins in REAPER v4.32 x64 on Win7 x64(SP2) and most of my tracks are mono (vocal, kick, snare, bass, etc...) BTW.
Billy Buck
Last edited by billybk1; 03-29-2013 at 06:00 AM.
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03-29-2013, 06:03 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybk1
those pin settings are NOT saved with your project.
Billy Buck
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This is not correct. I'm not sure what you are doing wrong, but plugin in pins are always saved.
They are also saved in presets, so you could make a MONO preset for you r plug in's if you wanted.
They are also saved in track templates as well.
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03-29-2013, 06:26 AM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE
This is not correct. I'm not sure what you are doing wrong, but plugin in pins are always saved.
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Hmmm.......I make the pin changes, save my project and when I re-open, the pins are set back to stereo each time. Is there some special command for this as it does not work for me using REAPER v4.32 x64 using Win 7 (SP1) and my UAD VST plug-ins. So it does not seem to be a workable solution with all plug-ins, in my case.
Cheers,
Billy Buck
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03-29-2013, 06:35 AM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
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Could be a bug with bridged plugins?
(or perhaps UAD)
I'm on 32bit, all is working here.
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03-29-2013, 06:43 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE
Could be a bug with bridged plugins?
(or perhaps UAD)
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I am using x64 UAD plug-ins (no bridging required using REAPER x64).
Thanks anyway,
Billy Buck
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03-29-2013, 01:10 PM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 2,057
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I want 1-channel option so that the "export multichannel tracks to multichannel files" will be more useful... so that mono exports as mono, stereo exports as stereo, 4-chan exports as 4-chan. Right now I have to use the render queue to say
"export this mono, export that stereo..."
and mistakes can be made
"oops that was supposed to be stereo! damn! start over"
__________________
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MyReaperPlugin - Easy-to-use cross-platform C++ REAPER extension template
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03-29-2013, 02:24 PM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,824
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I see I am not the only one with the mono problem.
The 2.4 VST standard stats that a plugin can either be put in as Stereo or Mono on a mono track however it is up to the Daw to setup the VST STEREO TO MONO properly
Some plugins do not have the Mono version as a separate plugin so Reaper has to follow the 2.4 VST standard that all Daw's follow on mono tracks
Cockos is not following the 2.4 VST standards on STEREO TO MONO FX.
That is why if you load ReaEQ on a mono track both vst pins will be active when IT SHOULD NOT BE ACTIVE IT SHOULD BE 1 PIN only.
It is a mono track NOT STEREO!!
Since other Daw's have "Add mono track" they do not have this issue. as the Daw already knows that the track is full MONO since the user told it to add a Mono 1 channel track and thus any FX loaded into that track will be processed as Mono.
results: you Mix better as your Mono tracks are properly set up with their FX, no need to remember to go back to the 3rd effect on the list to know weather both pins are active!!!
Cockos needs to the ball with this, this is the major reason is Stopped mixing in Reaper.
I mix in Samplitude Pro 12 because it does have mono tracks and tons of features not found in reaper.
Each track has it's on Reasurround type FX natively on each track no need to load any FX.
Many other reasons but the mono thing nailed it for me.
If Samplitude 13( update) get's VCA group automation then that is it for Reaper, it is being pulled and Samplitude will take over the Live useage as well
If things are not implemented after 4 years of being requested and these are Studio features requests, you move on.
Copy, improve or GTFO that is as basic as it get's.
Every software feature in Daw's should of already been copied, in fact all major Daw's should of had the same features by now
COPY, IMPROVE OR GTFO that is my motto.
Last edited by danfuerth; 03-29-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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03-29-2013, 02:47 PM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: I'm in a barn
Posts: 4,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfuerth
results: you Mix better as your Mono tracks are properly set up with their FX, no need to remember to go back to the 3rd effect on the list to know weather both pins are active!!!
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BS
this is just a CPU resource issue. There is no sonic difference weather the plug in operates on 1 channel or 2. Set the pins up for mono and stereo on 2 identical tracks and do a null test.
plugs like Reatune or some VSTi's might not null, depends on how the output is handled i guess.
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03-29-2013, 02:57 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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I don't care so much about the other stuff but I do prefer seeing a single meter for mono as opposed to 2.
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