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Old 03-24-2011, 04:33 PM   #1
egoplasma
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Default Slow response when "Save full VST plug-in state is ticked"

When working with NI Maschine (or other "bigger" plug-ins) the option "Save full VST plug-in state" in the VST-preferences has to be ticked. If not, you will lose your maschine settings the next time you start your project.
But with this setting it´s very annoying to work with, cause it takes very long till the fx-chain window is closed. When the preference is unticked everything is fine.

Have also a look:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69158

Last edited by egoplasma; 03-24-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:58 PM   #2
Win Conway
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Same story with Vsampler 3.5, but maybe even worse
With save full state on you get to open the project and it is all great, however when you move a dial on the UI the sound cuts out
Untick save full state and the plugin works perfect but doesn't save

I think you can pretty much expect the Cockos devs to say it is the plugins fault (may well be, but as usual it only happens in Reaper)

I have just got into the habit of opening prefs unticking save state and then reticking it when i save, it is a complete pain in the ass but its the crap you have to live with if you use a cheap host like Reaper
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:19 PM   #3
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Schwa has commented on this problem quite a bit and I'm sure they are working on a solution.

Gpunk, will you ever stop with your sly negative remarks, they are hardly constructive, the devs have feelings you know.

and what does this mean "Used to be NAS (wont be here long don't worry)"?

Are you dying? (and if you are I apologise)

Last edited by musicbynumbers; 03-24-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:25 PM   #4
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and before you say anything, yes it affects me too and yes it's annoying but I've been here long enough to trust that the devs will get around to it.

They put it in a massive amount of over time on this DAW (regardless of if they enjoy it or if it's for the money etc) and it's obvious that you have a love hate relationship with Reaper.

Just try to be positive and patient. You may think that Reaper is full of half finished stuff but that's only one way of looking at it.

I prefer to think of it as the most amazing DAW you can get for any kind of money and is way more stable than all the others and has the right features for me (mostly since we have a big say in what goes into Reaper). Any addition features you deem un-finished can just be not used until they are
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:50 PM   #5
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Just been through some of your posts and realise that you intend to stop posting after reaper 4 is released so I guess that's why your so eager to get all the bugs fixed, Perhaps just try to stop sounding so pushy, (I don't think that's a rude request?)

Others might agree and have just been more polite, It's not like all you do is moan because you do help people out a lot too
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
To handle this issue, what we would need to add in REAPER is an option to disable undo for plug-ins. We've done a bit of design thinking about this, but it's not a trivial thing to add -- it would make it easy for undo states to get out of whack.

. .
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #7
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Default Problem solved....almost!

Problem is solved in v4 alpha 58. That was fast. Thank you!
I´ve checked "Save minimal undo states" in the new compatibility settings and now when clicking the fx button in the tcp directly, Ni Maschine appears and disappears immediately. Cool!

But there´s now another hickup... For switching the fx chain window I use jeffos wonderful action "SWS&S: Toggle show fx chain windows for selected tracks". I´ve binded it to a key shortcut, in my case to "F1".
On almost all plugins it works fine but with "bigger" sized ones like NI Maschine there is now a significant delay on opening the window but not on closing. That´s weird!
Don´t know if there´s something went wrong in the new programming or if this belongs to jeffos action.

Can you please have a look at it?

Thanks!

Last edited by egoplasma; 03-28-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egoplasma View Post
But there´s now another hickup... For switching the fx chain window I use jeffos wonderful action "SWS&S: Toggle show fx chain windows for selected tracks". I´ve binded to a key shortcut, in my case to "F1".
On almost all plugins it works fine but with "bigger" sized ones like NI Maschine there is now a significant delay on opening the window but not on closing.
Technical explanation: the new FX compatibility setting prevents REAPER from asking the plugin for its full state for normal undo points.

That extension action calls the API function GetSetObjectState, which REAPER has to interpret as a request for the full FX state. REAPER has no idea what the caller intends to do with the information, so it would be wrong to return anything but the full state.

We'll add a separate API function to get the object state with a flag so the caller can tell REAPER if it's OK to get just the state that would be used for an undo point. If it makes sense for the extension to call that function instead, it should fix the problem.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:02 PM   #9
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Cool! And thanks for your hard work you put into reaper. I really appreciate it!
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:34 AM   #10
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egoplasma, sorry for the huge hijack but I think it's the best place to post what follows... btw, as far as I tested, your issue should be fixed thanks to the new "minimal undo" pref (and without changing anything to my action "SWS/S&M: Toggle show fx chain windows for selected tracks", that's why I'm posting..)
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
We'll add a separate API function to get the object state with a flag so the caller can tell REAPER if it's OK to get just the state that would be used for an undo point. If it makes sense for the extension to call that function instead, it should fix the problem.
I know I come 10 years after the battle.. So, first thanks for the heads up but I think there's either a bug or I misunderstood something: GetSetObjectState2 seems useless to me. As I don't understand where are the savings, I'll just describe what I can monitor:
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
That extension action calls the API function GetSetObjectState, which REAPER has to interpret as a request for the full FX state. REAPER has no idea what the caller intends to do with the information, so it would be wrong to return anything but the full state.
That's not what I'm seeing: GetSetObjectState as well as GetSetObjectState2 don't always return the full state, they obey the new "minimal undo" pref although I also think "it is wrong to return anything but the full state" whatever is that pref..

Also, I can't monitor "consistent" and real efficient savings using GetSetObjectState2 (tests done with a track state of 18Mo, using native funcs only):
- getting a massive state is a little bit faster (around 15, 20%) with isUndo=false - but the big picture still slow from an user POV
- however, it's the reverse when setting a massive state: slower with isUndo=false (around 40%) - but the big picture still slow from an user POV
Of course (even if not expected): getting/setting with GetSetObjectState or GetSetObjectState2 with "minimal undo" ticked is faster than my cat hunted by a dog.

So what is the difference ? Or, if I take the pb the other hand, here's what I was expecting with GetSetObjectState2: sets or gets a full state (if isUndo is true, minimal state if false) whatever the user's "minimal undo" pref is. This would lead to BIG savings (when you don't need FX states) but it looks like I'm rather missing something BIG => sorry in advance!
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:12 AM   #11
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Hi Jeffos, thank you very much for your answer. You are very welcome hijacking this thread...

Your action "SWS/S&M: Toggle show fx chain windows for selected tracks" is one of my main used actions. Don´t know how often I hit the "F1" key...
If you find a solution for the delay time on opening the fx-chain-window when NI Maschine is inserted you would make me really happy.
As I said this delay happens only when I use your action on opening the fx-chain window. When I directly click the fx-button with the mouse the fx-chain window pops up instantly. "Save minimal undo states" is ticked.

Thank you for your time and effort!
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:53 AM   #12
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I can't reproduce that but I have to say that I don't own Maschine so I tested something else (but something I thought worse).
=> egoplasma, could you upload such a project somewhere so I can have a closer look (no media needed, just the RPP file) ? This would help me..

note: I also did an optimization that should make things faster when Maschine is the only FX in the chain, coming in the next SWS beta build (tech. details: I still don't use GetSetObjectState2 though due to what I said above)
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
I can't reproduce that but I have to say that I don't own Maschine so I tested something else (but something I thought worse).
=> egoplasma, could you upload such a project somewhere so I can have a closer look (no media needed, just the RPP file) ? This would help me..

note: I also did an optimization that should make things faster when Maschine is the only FX in the chain, coming in the next SWS beta build (tech. details: I still don't use GetSetObjectState2 though due to what I said above)
Hi Jeffos, I´ve uploaded a project to the stash. It´s a simple project with only one track with NI Maschine inserted.

https://stash.reaper.fm/8378/NI_Maschine_for_Jeffos.RPP

Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-30-2011, 01:11 AM   #14
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Default Problem completly solved

The problem is completly solved with the new SWS v2.0.0.19!!!
Thanks again Jeffos! Now I´m a happy camper!
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