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Old 07-11-2013, 12:38 AM   #1
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Default Some VST effects sound different in Reaper..?

Hello,

I'm one of the long-time Cakewalk/Sonar users considering to switch to Reaper, and so far I'm very impressed. However, I noticed a strange thing that I couldn't explain.

It seems that certain plugin effects, most notably the FabFilter Volcano, sound very different in Reaper from what I'm used to hearing in Sonar. I wonder if this is a compatibility issue, or if I have simply overlooked some obvious setting. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:07 AM   #2
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Actually, it sounds as if the filter were much more resonant in Reaper, around 200 Hz maybe.

In the meantime I've also tested this in the Studio One demo where everything sounds just like in Sonar. So, it seems that Reaper is the odd one.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:46 PM   #3
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OK, I realize it's hard for me to explain this thing in words, so here are 2 examples to make it clear. I used the exact same preset in both cases.
Attached Files
File Type: zip audio_examples_mp3.zip (568.5 KB, 130 views)
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:55 AM   #4
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Does it also sound different when you bounce it down?
I have no experience with Fabfilter plugs (O shame on me! ) but I know loads of plugs works with quality settings. (ie offline render)
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace404 View Post
Does it also sound different when you bounce it down?
I have no experience with Fabfilter plugs (O shame on me! ) but I know loads of plugs works with quality settings. (ie offline render)
I think bouncing and rendering are the same in this regard. So, yes.
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:13 AM   #6
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Default I ve noticed the same

The plugins and even instruments sound different in Reaper compared to Pro Tools. I work with Reaper for about 2 weeks now and even my external Hardware Reverb (TC M2000) sounds noticeably different in Reaper as send/return fx applying same presets with same send amount.
I can not say if it sounds better or worse, itīs definitely different.


Very strange ??? What is the cause ?

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Old 07-12-2013, 04:21 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=bgrg;1209252]Actually, it sounds as if the filter were much more resonant in Reaper, around 200 Hz maybe.

Thatīs how I would explain it, too - "much more resonant"!
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:20 AM   #8
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Wow, listening two those two samples I would assume completely different settings, or even a completely different effect. Could there somehow be differences in the gain structure feeding the effect on the different DAWs? It almost seems to me like Reaper is feeding a hotter (or weaker - not really sure how Volcano works)signal to the effect causing it to behave differently. Are the DAWs otherwise set the same, pan laws, etc?
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:01 AM   #9
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Are you using 64-bit host and 64-bit plugin - or any other difference between Sonar and Reaper?

Is plugin bridged, and things like that is my thinking.

And also that preset might be made on 32-bit, and loaded with 64-bit version - possible difference as a preset is loaded, kindof.

Are there different version of plugin - like Waves often have mono/mono, mono/stereo, stereo/stereo version to load of every plugin?

In Reaper you see this as 1 in 2 out, etc.

In Sonar you set the track mono/stereo - so is this setting the same?
You run the plugin as stereo in Sonar as well as Reaper?

A few things that might interfere...
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:15 AM   #10
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Default bridged

There should be no difference in Quality and Sound when plugins are bridged from 32 bit to 64 bit as far as I know, only a difference in CPU and Ram usage.
There must be Kind of eq or filter in Reapers Input (or Output?).
I ve found out that I can reach a similar Quality of Sound like in Pro Tools when I use eq Settings like this - the best way maybe would be to make this Settings (cuts only!) for the mix in the end.
Take an eq with a linear and neutral sound, do not use e.g. Waves Renaissance Eq or something like that !

230 hz -4 Q 3.1 and 680 hz - 4.8 Q 2.4 (bell-filter)

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Old 07-14-2013, 03:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
The plugins and even instruments sound different in Reaper compared to Pro Tools.
I don't really find a striking difference in the general "sound" of these DAWs, so I have to disagree. I think what you describe could be explained by differences in audio settings. But not this case I'm talking about.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog951 View Post
Wow, listening two those two samples I would assume completely different settings, or even a completely different effect. Could there somehow be differences in the gain structure feeding the effect on the different DAWs? It almost seems to me like Reaper is feeding a hotter (or weaker - not really sure how Volcano works)signal to the effect causing it to behave differently. Are the DAWs otherwise set the same, pan laws, etc?
No, pan laws and plugin input levels are the same.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nip View Post
Are you using 64-bit host and 64-bit plugin - or any other difference between Sonar and Reaper?

Is plugin bridged, and things like that is my thinking.

And also that preset might be made on 32-bit, and loaded with 64-bit version - possible difference as a preset is loaded, kindof.

Are there different version of plugin - like Waves often have mono/mono, mono/stereo, stereo/stereo version to load of every plugin?

In Reaper you see this as 1 in 2 out, etc.

In Sonar you set the track mono/stereo - so is this setting the same?
You run the plugin as stereo in Sonar as well as Reaper?

A few things that might interfere...
Both instances are 64 bit (so not bridged) and stereo.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrg View Post
I don't really find a striking difference in the general "sound" of these DAWs, so I have to disagree. I think what you describe could be explained by differences in audio settings. But not this case I'm talking about.
How could you disagree ? You talked about Sonar and not about Pro Tools !
I have to disagree ! There is a difference in sound, but I can only compare with Pro Tools, I do not know Sonar. No difference in Audio Settings, when I play my guitar I use the same gear and connections for PT and for Reaper. Settings in the daws are the same, too. And itīs the same with plugins.
Maybe thatīs what PT is famous for, I do not know, the PRO TOOLS Sound ! or whatever, there is also a special Hollywood sound in movies, I ve heard people saying that a lot, but itīs especially because they all use PT and Lexicon reverbs.

Does anyone expect a daw that costs USD 60 to have equal sound like a daw that is much more expensive ?

But I do like the Reaper sound, I will NOT use an eq in order to get or imitate the PT sound !

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post

But I do like the Reaper Sound, I will NOT use an eq in order to get the PT sound !
DAWs don't have a "sound". Something is being overlooked.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
DAWs don't have a "sound". Something is being overlooked.
You have an Audio track, letīs say 10 bars of a rythm guitar.
You load this Audio track
in SONAR
in REAPER
in Cubase
and in Pro Tools
Then you apply a reverb plugin, letīs say eg. Valhalla with the same preset in every daw.
Panning, volume etc. have the same value in every daw.
And you really think that the guitar will have 100% equal sound in every daw ?

Mics also are different, most of them are not neutral or linear, they have eq-boosts or cuts
affecting sound in certain frequencies
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
You have an Audio track, letīs say 10 bars of a rythm guitar.
You load this Audio track
in SONAR
in REAPER
in Cubase
and in Pro Tools
Then you apply a reverb plugin, letīs say eg. Valhalla with the same preset in every daw.
Panning, volume etc. have the same value in every daw.
And you really think that the guitar will have 100% equal sound in every daw ?

Mics also are different, most of them are not neutral or linear, they have eq-boosts or cuts
affecting sound in certain frequencies
As far as the DAW itself and the exact settings, Yep.

DAWs don't have "sounds". However, by piling on changes, pan laws, internal processing bit and sample rates and VSTs you create a situation where it becomes tough to actually know you have them set the same across the board. That being said there is likely something set differently as to how the VSTs are being processed or pan laws or something we are missing.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:49 PM   #18
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In "Project Settings" you can change pan law amount.
Default Setting in Reaper is 0, itīs recommended to change it to - 3,
if one works with different daws - thatīs just what I ve heard.
I have changed to -4,5, thatīs what I had in PT.
Does anybody know what is gain compensation (pan boost) good for ?
Do not comprehend the manualīs explanation. Why would anyone
want a signal to be boosted when panned to center ?
Actually I prefer to cut and not to boost.

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:17 PM   #19
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Default Default settings

The worst things about Reaper are some important Default Settings and
I am not talking about pan law only.
Reaper is a great daw offering many detailed things one can select.
But you can not even save Projects automatically in different files by default,
and you have to press two keys for important shortcuts like record and undo and
some more annoying and absurd default settings.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
DAWs don't have a "sound".
Wrong......OUT OF THE BOX they do.....
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
You have an Audio track, letīs say 10 bars of a rythm guitar.
You load this Audio track
in SONAR
in REAPER
in Cubase
and in Pro Tools
Then you apply a reverb plugin, letīs say eg. Valhalla with the same preset in every daw.
Panning, volume etc. have the same value in every daw.
And you really think that the guitar will have 100% equal sound in every daw ?
The problem with using a reverb for this test is that modulation in the algorithm would make it slightly different every time even multiple sequential renders from the same DAW.

I'm not saying you shouldn't test though. If you heard a difference then you should investigate why.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrg View Post
OK, I realize it's hard for me to explain this thing in words, so here are 2 examples to make it clear. I used the exact same preset in both cases.
Just listened to the examples. I'd get in contact with FabFilter to get their input or report the bug.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:06 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Naji View Post
Does anybody know what is gain compensation (pan boost) good for ?
Do not comprehend the manualīs explanation. Why would anyone
want a signal to be boosted when panned to center ?
it doesnt boost the centre, it boosts the sides when panned, same basic result but 3dB hotter

I use it so when I create a new track to use as a folder I dont have to change the pan law back to 0
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Just listened to the examples. I'd get in contact with FabFilter to get their input or report the bug.
Hi, thanks for staying on-topic. I will, but since I only experience it in Reaper, and that's the DAW I'm currently about to switch to, I thought I would seek some answers here first.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
Wrong......OUT OF THE BOX they do.....
I just loaded a wav file in two different DAWs (out of the box). They sounded the same. It's not the DAW sound, it's the settings, configuration, or the DAW or something is busted.

I realize its just semantics but its important to differentiate between the two or people will end up thinking DAWs have different characters and mojo when they don't/shouldn't.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:07 AM   #26
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Default Daws

I īd also say there is a difference, you can even just load a wav file and playback it - you hear a difference and the difference gets bigger as soon as you apply fx.
Maybe the daw Producers are not able to explain why they sound different and maybe itīs a secret, Pro Tools definitely sounds like Pro Tools AND I do NOT like it ! Too many prof productions were made with PT, so there is a certain coloration of sound one can notice and hear.
Perhaps one could compare it with wine e.g. red wine "Bordeaux" from France, you can buy different bottles of Bordeaux, and in every bottle there is Bordeaux-wine, and every bottle tastes like Bordeaux-wine, but the taste or flavor of each bottle is a little different.

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Old 07-15-2013, 07:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
I īd also say there is a difference, you can even just load a wav file and playback it
That's the problem, it needs to be proven, not assumed.

Quote:
Maybe the daw Producers are not able to explain why they sound different and maybe itīs a secret, Pro Tools definitely sounds like Pro Tools AND I do NOT like it !
It's much more likely the person making the claim hasn't found the thing that is causing the difference.

This has been discussed to death in the past so it's really beating a dead horse to do it all over again without brushing up on said discussions. There are some exceptions but I don't think we are anywhere near any of those here upon hearing those samples.

FabFilter just released a new bug update a few days ago FYI. So, the VST could have a problem or Reaper could have a bug but its not because DAWs sound different. Please pay special attention to how I worded that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #28
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Default 2 and 1

There are two People here saying that daws sound different and you (=1 Person) who says daws donīt sound differently. Of course I could load a wav file in pro Tools, in cubase and in reaper. then I could record the track once more in every daw without fx, and I could record it with a fx plugin and you would hear a difference.
Thatīs one reason why PT is number one in prof Audio recording, profs want to have PT sound.
They certainly do not purchase PT, because Avid plugins are so good, most of them are not very good.
And really every plugin I ve checked in Reaper sounds different in Reaper, and I like that ! I like those Input filters or output eq or whatever Reaper has integrated,
they will not tell YOU ! I want to have that Reaper daw-sound, itīs pretty interesting, now I even use plugins I have never used before !
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:51 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
There are two People here saying that daws sound different and you (=1 Person) who says daws donīt sound differently. Of course I could load a wav file in pro Tools, in cubase and in reaper. then I could record the track once more in every daw without fx, and I could record it with a fx plugin and you would hear a difference.
Thatīs one reason why PT is number one in prof Audio recording, profs want to have PT sound.
They certainly do not purchase PT, because Avid plugins are so good, most of them are not very good.
And really every plugin I ve checked in Reaper sounds different in Reaper, and I like that ! I like those Input filters or output eq or whatever Reaper has integrated,
they will not tell YOU ! I want to have that Reaper daw-sound, itīs pretty interesting, now I even use plugins I have never used before !
Fortunately, the truth is not a democracy.

Pros don't purchase PT for it's 'sound.' They do it mostly because they like the workflow or are in a position where it's status as the so-called 'industry standard' is important.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
There are two People here saying that daws sound different and you (=1 Person) who says daws donīt sound differently. Of course I could load a wav file in pro Tools, in cubase and in reaper
If forum votes and anecdotal evidence is what you use to come to technical conclusions, then I highly suggest you go with the other two and ignore everything I said.


Quote:
I like those Input filters or output eq or whatever Reaper has integrated, they will not tell YOU !
I'm sorry but that is simply and utterly incorrect. Please start another thread on how DAWs sound as to not further degrade this one with misinformation. You'll get plenty of replies and answers.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:55 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Fortunately, the truth is not a democracy.

Pros don't purchase PT for it's 'sound.' They do it mostly because they like the workflow or are in a position where it's status as the so-called 'industry standard' is important.
+1 on this!
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:39 AM   #32
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I am pretty surprised being faced with people who are in doubt about the fact that there is a Pro Tools sound. The workflow in PT is the main reason I do not like to work with PT, it is way more complicate and not user-friendly than Reaper, and if you are in doubt again just search in Google, there a many many threads in www. showing why People do not like PT or what they do not like compared to other daws. It is not my intention to give misinformation, it is just the fact that one of the first things I noticed was the different sound of Reaper. And I said I do like that sound.
And if there are people who say a daw has not characteristic sound, then I
accept this opinion, so why getting upset, different people have different ears !
And now I am curious and I am going to buy sonar, maybe I will like the sound of sonar and plugins sounding different in sonar, itīs a very interesting thing to be able to have different colorations of sound using different daws.
And you are right it would be good to make a new thread in order to discuss
the sound of daws.

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Old 07-16-2013, 04:37 AM   #33
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Default Ha !

I ve just seen an advertisement of Samplitude:

"An outstanding strength of Samplitude is its absolute sound neutrality."

Why would Samplitude explicitly mention it if daws had not a special
characteristic sound !? Ha !

I have no further questions !
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:47 AM   #34
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Anyone can write anything they want in their marketing blurbs, you know?

It was proven a number of times: if different DAWs are set to the same settings (sample rate, dithering, pan law, rendering settings), then they will null each other. Which means they don't have their own "sound" and are in fact all neutral. Because 1+1 is 2, no matter which DAW calculates it with zeroes and ones.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:53 AM   #35
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Whatever anyone will write concerning this matter,
Reaper is the best daw for me, and one reason is the sound.
Itīs different from PT and maybe it is because of different settings
or something I do not see now.
What about the rumor of PT havin so called silky filters, I am not sure about that expression?!

Maybe every software has features that are not revealed.


1 + 1 = 2. Thatīs just because it was determined that way.
Say that to a Buddhist
One simple example:
1 USD plus 1 USD = 2 USD
Maybe you will get 4 Bananas for 2 USD today.
Maybe you will get only 2 Bananas for 2 USD in one year.
When you consider or examine something closely, you ll find out that 1 + 1 and 1 + 1 is not 1 + 1 !

Whatever you will try to say
I LOVE REAPER !

And Evil Dragon, I know this is not a community here to discuss
philosophical matters - I agree !

I have noticed here that some people do worship PT and I do not understand that.
Pt is not bad, but I saw here that someone tries to imitate and integrate the mixer of Pro Tools
into Reaper, and a whole lot of people like it! Why doing that ???
www.duc.avid.com is a better place to worship PT.

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Old 07-16-2013, 05:57 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naji View Post
Whatever anyone will write concerning this matter,
Reaper is the best daw for me, and one reason is the sound.
Itīs different from PT and maybe it is because of different settings
or something I do not see now.

1 + 1 = 2. Thatīs just because it was determined that way.
Say that to a Buddhist
One simple example:
1 USD plus 1 USD = 2 USD
Maybe you will get 4 Bananas for 2 USD today.
Maybe you will get onl y 2 Bananas for 2 USD in one year.
When you consider or examine something closely, you ll find out that 1 + 1 and 1 + 1 is not 1 + 1 !

Whatever you will trying to say
I LOVE REAPER !

And Evil Dragon, I know this is not a community here to discuss
philosophical matters - I agree !
you do know that computers doesn't take currency echange rates into consideration when computing 1+1 ? do you ?

but as EvilDragon said, the TEST HAS BEEN DONE and the sound NULL between each DAW... you can't have a better proof than this!
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:20 AM   #37
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The only proof I accept are my ears !
And I already said everyone has different ears,
and so I have to repeat 1 + 1 is not necessarily 1 + 1.
my ears are not your ears or the ears of Henry or George or etc.!
It was just an example to make you understand the nitty-gritty!
I did not say computers take currency into consideration.

Ok, I agree with you in order to end this discussion:
all daws have the same sound.
And this fact must be the reason some(quite a lot) people want to be Reaper
just like Pro Tools ??!
and pls do not tell anyone itīs because of PTīs workflow !
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:26 AM   #38
EvilDragon
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Originally Posted by Naji View Post
1 + 1 = 2. Thatīs just because it was determined that way.
Say that to a Buddhist
One simple example:
1 USD plus 1 USD = 2 USD
Maybe you will get 4 Bananas for 2 USD today.
Maybe you will get only 2 Bananas for 2 USD in one year.
When you consider or examine something closely, you ll find out that 1 + 1 and 1 + 1 is not 1 + 1 !

Sorry, but you gave a very wrong example there.

Value of money is relative. Basic math (which computers operate on) is absolute. Buddhism has nothing to do with it.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:46 AM   #39
ambient
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I have to repeat 1 + 1 is not necessarily 1 + 1.
When you're talking basic mathematical operations (upon which computers operate), then yes it is. Always.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:47 AM   #40
Naji
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Thatīs what Buddhism is all about
"Everything is fading, so nothing can be settled etc.

But I am not a guy who must always be right, maybe all daws are equal in sound,
and my ears deceive me,
and those who think that PT is the ultimate, ok why not,
I definitely prefer Reaper - and itīs especially the Sound AND the workflow !
The plugins are so great in Reaper, and as I said, I use plugins
I have not used before in PT, they are different and more interesting to me in Reaper.

And whatever you load in Reaper or the software itself, it is so much faster in Reaper !

I really do not want to convince anyone of purchasing REAPER, download a Trial Version,
and you will see whether you like it or not.
As far as I know Evil Dragon works with Reaper already

Last edited by Naji; 07-16-2013 at 07:07 AM.
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