Old 11-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
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Default Akai mpk 61

Hello Im planning to get an Akai Mpk 61 keyboard to use with Reaper 64 bit and wondered if anyone on the forums have experience with it. Also, if you have any comments or suggestions on other keyboards, like the Oxygen 61, for why it might be better in one area than the Akai it will be helpful. The keyboard would have to be 61 keys or more, and have assignable knobs and faders and other helpful features. It wont be a small investment so I want to have all the input of the forums.
Thanks!

Last edited by Nazarko; 11-08-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:50 AM   #2
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Welcome to the club Nazarko.

My own choices is between.

- Novation Impulse 61 -

Cheapest in this bunch.
Only powered through usb (good/bad?)

- Akai MPK61 MPK 61 -

My runner up, the feel on the keys beeing too firm for my taste, pianoplayers might find it easy so, it all personal preference, no gliching or wierdo stuff though.
Too bad, damnit.. like it otherwise.

- M-Audio AXIOM AIR 61 -

My personal favourite atleast when it comes down to the feel of the keys.

I would also know what the more experienced users have to say, maby owners?
Also, i really really don't want any compability problems with Reaper.
That is, All knobs and dials should send some sort of native midi CC without problem i hope without installing their software, i hope..

So, i'm also taking a seat and hope we get good answers.

Last edited by SmajjL; 11-09-2013 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Impumulse? latest midi keyboard or? :)
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:29 AM   #3
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I have the smaller brother of the MPK 61, the MPK 25, and that works well with Reaper. No need to install any software, creating a new preset for the most common midi commands (expression) is enough for me.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:42 AM   #4
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I have the smaller brother of the MPK 61, the MPK 25, and that works well with Reaper. No need to install any software, creating a new preset for the most common midi commands (expression) is enough for me.
Thanks you peter! for confirming so fast!
I will do fingerworkouts for that one should noone confirm the same for AXIOM.
I need a new one ASAP and i'm comming from CS1x which has superlight keys so, i can adapt if necessary. :P
So Reaper can "learn" and recognise every knob/dial/pad on that thing, including VSTs?
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:59 AM   #5
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And Nazarko.

M-Audio Oxygen 61 3d Generation has no glitchy/noisy keys either and is maby a good cheap alternative.
Pretty light keys.
Sorry i can't offer more info, but keep an eye out for that one and what people say about it should you choose budget.

All i got, for now.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by peter5992 View Post
I have the smaller brother of the MPK 61, the MPK 25, and that works well with Reaper. No need to install any software, creating a new preset for the most common midi commands (expression) is enough for me.
Ok thanks!

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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Welcome to the club Nazarko.

My own choices is between.

- Novation Impulse 61 -

Cheapest in this bunch.
Only powered through usb (good/bad?)

- Akai MPK61 MPK 61 -

My runner up, the feel on the keys beeing too firm for my taste, pianoplayers might find it easy so, it all personal preference, no gliching or wierdo stuff though.
Too bad, damnit.. like it otherwise.

- M-Audio AXIOM AIR 61 -

My personal favourite atleast when it comes down to the feel of the keys.

I would also know what the more experienced users have to say, maby owners?
Also, i really really don't want any compability problems with Reaper.
That is, All knobs and dials should send some sort of native midi CC without problem i hope without installing their software, i hope..

So, i'm also taking a seat and hope we get good answers.
Yes I've looked at those keyboards as well. I've been playing piano for 7 years so it throws me off sometimes when other places on the internet say the keys are terrible and some say theyre amazing.
I dont know about the USB powered thing do you find any problems in it?
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:48 AM   #7
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If you have played real piano, then the you should not have any problem with the AKAI at all, it's "stiffness", but you know its synth keys feel offcourse.
It's all a matter of preference, but when i did tests i was not looking for my own preferance per say, i was looking for if it made noises, if you grab one key and move it sideways etc, it should be built solid, hope you know what i mean.
AKAI and the AXIOM was "solid" stayed together so you should able to do a Jerry Lewis without the keys making scrambling noises.

Ive seen only One youtube bad critic on the Impulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNLr3KjbT4M

To me, it should be an offcaurse that a midi keyboard should work and send midi and all it knobs should have a native number, atleast.
But these fancy keyboard nowdays have their own software solution to make things more "easy and fun", If supported by the OS and your DAW which you also should check if that is of interest to you.

I am for now pretty much as lost as you and i hope we get the answers we are looking for.

Ps. why don't i just go and buy one and turn it back if it's not living up to my expectations? not funny enough, i was not allowed from my perticular store who had it, i asked..
But with my HS7 monitors, i had 8 days... go figure how some work.. lol
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:52 AM   #8
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I have a CME UF5 and it has a pretty good keyboard. Light enough for fast work but enough tactile to give some feedback while playing. I also have a Roland RD-150 with a weighted wooden hammer-action keyboard and they complement each other very well for different playing styles.

There are negative reviews to be found about it, but that goes for all keyboards. The CME stuff is build like a tank (most part of their case is actually metal). However, in comparison with other available keyboards today they might have slightly less controls available (I can map a total of 50 controls). There are also no drum trigger pads if you want those. I use a Korg PADkontrol for that.

If I would buy a new keyboard today I would probably go for the Nektar Panorama P6, although I haven't played one yet so no idea about its keys
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:10 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by technogremlin View Post
I have a CME UF5 and it has a pretty good keyboard. Light enough for fast work but enough tactile to give some feedback while playing. I also have a Roland RD-150 with a weighted wooden hammer-action keyboard and they complement each other very well for different playing styles.

There are negative reviews to be found about it, but that goes for all keyboards. The CME stuff is build like a tank (most part of their case is actually metal). However, in comparison with other available keyboards today they might have slightly less controls available (I can map a total of 50 controls). There are also no drum trigger pads if you want those. I use a Korg PADkontrol for that.

If I would buy a new keyboard today I would probably go for the Nektar Panorama P6, although I haven't played one yet so no idea about its keys
Hello! i don't live in the rainforest! it should be available in my local store now! *kidding*
Thank you for the tip, never seen that one, the price is vs AKAI and AXIOM it seems also.
Also, no way i'm recommending or investing in anything a have not tryed or can find reviews on, i need one now! ahh! + gentle echo, freeware offcaurse. (H. L. Goldberg)

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Old 11-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by technogremlin View Post
I have a CME UF5 and it has a pretty good keyboard. Light enough for fast work but enough tactile to give some feedback while playing. I also have a Roland RD-150 with a weighted wooden hammer-action keyboard and they complement each other very well for different playing styles.

There are negative reviews to be found about it, but that goes for all keyboards. The CME stuff is build like a tank (most part of their case is actually metal). However, in comparison with other available keyboards today they might have slightly less controls available (I can map a total of 50 controls). There are also no drum trigger pads if you want those. I use a Korg PADkontrol for that.

If I would buy a new keyboard today I would probably go for the Nektar Panorama P6, although I haven't played one yet so no idea about its keys
Ive never heard of CME Ill have to try it in stores. The Nektar Panorama looks good. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
If you have played real piano, then the you should not have any problem with the AKAI at all, it's "stiffness", but you know its synth keys feel offcourse.
It's all a matter of preference, but when i did tests i was not looking for my own preferance per say, i was looking for if it made noises, if you grab one key and move it sideways etc, it should be built solid, hope you know what i mean.
AKAI and the AXIOM was "solid" stayed together so you should able to do a Jerry Lewis without the keys making scrambling noises.

Ive seen only One youtube bad critic on the Impulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNLr3KjbT4M

To me, it should be an offcaurse that a midi keyboard should work and send midi and all it knobs should have a native number, atleast.
But these fancy keyboard nowdays have their own software solution to make things more "easy and fun", If supported by the OS and your DAW which you also should check if that is of interest to you.

I am for now pretty much as lost as you and i hope we get the answers we are looking for.

Ps. why don't i just go and buy one and turn it back if it's not living up to my expectations? not funny enough, i was not allowed from my perticular store who had it, i asked..
But with my HS7 monitors, i had 8 days... go figure how some work.. lol
I have a bunch of M-Audio and Akai products so I'm sort of leaning toward them and maybe the Impulse. The keys movement is important like you tested so thanks for that. I think itll just come down to Axiom air 61 and Akai mpk 61 and see what we get.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:32 AM   #11
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You are welcome.
Hope all these is available in your store so you can feel 'em, doesn't matter if it's the smallest version, should be the same feel of the keys.
Happy hunting.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:40 AM   #12
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You are welcome.
Hope all these is available in your store so you can feel 'em, doesn't matter if it's the smallest version, should be the same feel of the keys.
Happy hunting.
If you get one of these be sure to tell me how it is! I'll do the same as I will be ordering in the next couple of days
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:56 AM   #13
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If you get one of these be sure to tell me how it is! I'll do the same as I will be ordering in the next couple of days
Ohh man.. you'll be getting one before Me then most likely damnit.
I got a feeling that i will say something famous in a couple of days then.
- i'll have what He! is having! -
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:30 AM   #14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGMoD2t06Rc
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #15
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Sir gremlin, are you getting payed for this?
Looks good though and he did say one magic word, - works with every DAW -
But we have yet to have anyone here on this forum saying that none of this thread current options will not work so. :P
Make it available in a fysical store p l e a s e and before christmas!
damnit or this Nektar have no chance.
Speaking for myself yep. :P
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:49 AM   #16
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The p6 i think looks the best out of all my options. How the keys feel is whats interesting to me.The price is a bit over my budget but itll definitely be considered.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Nazarko View Post
The p6 i think looks the best out of all my options. How the keys feel is whats interesting to me.The price is a bit over my budget but itll definitely be considered.
"here" i see it like this.

Nektar Panorama P6 = 479Euro

Akai MPK 61 = 468Euro

M-Audio AXIOM AIR 61 = 444Euro

Edit: Damnit! Gremlin! lol
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #18
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Found it! fysical store in my town!
Nektar Panorama P6 for 4.399 swedish kronors, it's too Saturday for me to translate..
If you can wait until Monday, i'll give my opinion about the keys.
Maby we'll owe furry gremlin a beer, we'll see.
Or "better" yet, all is realative.. heh
If there are no glich or any funny bissness with the keys, you will be the first to get to see the theme i'm working on, if you like to that is.

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Old 11-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #19
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Found it! fysical store in my town!
Nektar Panorama P6 for 4.399 swedish kronors, it's too Saturday for me to translate..
If you can wait until Monday, i'll give my opinion about the keys.
Maby we'll owe furry gremlin a beer, we'll see.
Or "better" yet, all is realative.. heh
If there are no glich or any funny bissness with the keys, you will be the first to get to see the theme i'm working on, if you like to that is.
Well I'm in the US so its dollars for me lol.
The panorama is obviously a step up in technology and price unfortunately.
Looks like itll be Axiom air vs mpk 61 for me
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:38 PM   #20
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Default Akai MPK 61 vs Axiom Air 61

If you have any comments on either of these keyboards please share. Keys, features, and compatibility with Reaper will great.
Just want to have some opinion before I buy one of these thanks!
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:41 PM   #21
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"here" i see it like this.

Nektar Panorama P6 = 479Euro

Akai MPK 61 = 468Euro

M-Audio AXIOM AIR 61 = 444Euro

Edit: Damnit! Gremlin! lol
Hahaha.... the funny thing in all this is that I didn't know about it myself, but one of the interns in my company just bought one last week and can't stop talking about it Unfortunately he's not an actual keyboard player so no info on playability

Talking about keyboards, I'm thinking pretty hard about picking up a Alesis Vortex tomorrow
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #22
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Even a dedicated control surface unit like the Novation SL MkII lists just limited REAPER control, as in "Mixer control, Transport control, 3rd Party plug ins" (according to their website). I take that to mean no control of REAPER's built-in vst's (however, I may be misinterpreting this). So be careful and double-check if you want to be able to control everything in Reaper.
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:05 PM   #23
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Even a dedicated control surface unit like the Novation SL MkII lists just limited REAPER control, as in "Mixer control, Transport control, 3rd Party plug ins" (according to their website). I take that to mean no control of REAPER's built-in vst's (however, I may be misinterpreting this). So be careful and double-check if you want to be able to control everything in Reaper.
I don't follow about what you mean about everything. I just want to record an instrument and move on to the next and do it with as little turning from the keyboard to my laptop as possible. And when mixing or mastering I want to group certain instruments so i can control their volumes and pans right from the keyboard. What else did you mean by control everything? I'm interested
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #24
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IT sounds to me, from their website, that this controller may not give you any control of the VST and VSTi settings of Reaper's built in effects. But I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE. When they say it WILL control "3rd party plug-ins", I take that to mean NOT the BUILT-IN in plug-ins. Maybe someone else can tell us that either I am correct, or hopefully that I am wrong. Let's wait & see.
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:21 PM   #25
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Here: http://us.novationmusic.com/midi-controllers/sl-mkii

Scroll to the bottom of the page. Some of the OTHER DAW's listed, list control of "Included Plug-ins." But not for Reaper. Just "3rd Party Plug-ins."

Maybe that's not important to you. I'm just pointing it out so you're not disappointed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #26
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IT sounds to me, from their website, that this controller may not give you any control of the VST and VSTi settings of Reaper's built in effects. But I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE.
Support for a specific software means in most cases 'support without setup'. You can control just about anything in Reaper with just about any control surface. Where things start to get sketchy is with MIDI-feedback and such. I conytol Reaper from my US-2400 that has NO! specific support for Reaper, but it handles everything gracefully. The motorized faders are supported without any specific setup, even VU-mode works (meaning channel VUs are showing on the control surface. However, although I can control Repaer's internal FX and just about any external plugin (that supports automation) from the US-2400, Reaper does not support MIDI-feedback for those things.

I'm going to get a Zero SL MkII soon and I can tell even before working with it that it will do everything I want or need. Altgough Automap will probably not work, manually setting things up certainly will
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:33 PM   #27
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Support for a specific software means in most cases 'support without setup'. You can control just about anything in Reaper with just about any control surface. Where things start to get sketchy is with MIDI-feedback and such. I conytol Reaper from my US-2400 that has NO! specific support for Reaper, but it handles everything gracefully. The motorized faders are supported without any specific setup, even VU-mode works (meaning channel VUs are showing on the control surface. However, although I can control Repaer's internal FX and just about any external plugin (that supports automation) from the US-2400, Reaper does not support MIDI-feedback for those things.

I'm going to get a Zero SL MkII soon and I can tell even before working with it that it will do everything I want or need. Altgough Automap will probably not work, manually setting things up certainly will
Thanks for the clarification. Manual setting is better than nothing at all right? :P
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:44 PM   #28
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I'm going to get a Zero SL MkII soon and I can tell even before working with it that it will do everything I want or need. Altgough Automap will probably not work, manually setting things up certainly will
That's great, TGremlin. Maybe after you give it a test drive, you can get back to us and let us all know exactly what it will and will NOT control as far as Reaper's "Included Plugins".

I think it looks like a nice unit, but haven't had a chance to find out much more than the website says.

I'll look forward to your report.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:45 AM   #29
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That's great, TGremlin. Maybe after you give it a test drive, you can get back to us and let us all know exactly what it will and will NOT control as far as Reaper's "Included Plugins".
I think you still didn't get what I was saying: EVERYTHING that is externally controllable in Reaper, will be controllable from a Novation SL controller. If something can not be controlled, then it is because Reaper does not support it. It has NOTHING to do with the controller you use.

Controllers use standard MIDI CC-messages to control things. The important word here is 'STANDARD'. You can pick up ANY controller and make it work (less the feedback, as I explained as well).

So I don't have to write up a report as to what will work or not, I can tell you NOW! it will all work without much trouble. There are several reports here on the forum from Novation SL owners, stating it works without problems. Automap is overrated anyway, as it will map controls based on the order they are being presented by the plugin; what you end up is pretty seldom actually a useful setup. However, it seems you can then 'move around' the mapping on the controls (it seems). Me having made controller mappings for just about anything (and for decades, we where already doing this with Cubase on an Atari back in the days, to control MIDI-hardware from the sequencer), I'm staying away from Automap anyway and whip up my own mappings.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:57 AM   #30
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Hahaha.... the funny thing in all this is that I didn't know about it myself, but one of the interns in my company just bought one last week and can't stop talking about it Unfortunately he's not an actual keyboard player so no info on playability

Talking about keyboards, I'm thinking pretty hard about picking up a Alesis Vortex tomorrow
Well, could you please stop recommending stuff that You personally have not even tryed.
Some of us is serious about getting a replacement and asking for help so the odds that we come home with our new toy, it won't just be a good looking brick, if not much is working.
And you just said Nektar, now a Vortex, what the hell gremlinzkji is up?
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:22 AM   #31
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Well, could you please stop recommending stuff that You personally have not even tryed.
Just pointing out it's existence, you'll figure it out

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Some of us is serious about getting a replacement and asking for help so the odds that we come home with our new toy, it won't just be a good looking brick, if not much is working.
So you are going to buy something that expensive without trying it out yourself, based on my recommendation... well, what can I say but 'thanks for this impressive vote of confidence in my -say so-'

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And you just said Nektar, now a Vortex, what the hell gremlinzkji is up?
Yeah, didn't get the Vortex today, will be next week probably. Then I can pick up the Novation Zero as well
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:42 AM   #32
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I can multiquote too! i hope. Edit: No i couldn't ah hehe
I know you do but but... oh nevermind, i'll get used to it i guess.

Yes and no.
Yes if i have no choise, no help, no alternatives.
I just went though all my local stores policies, and it seems like ive been in the worst one on my first try.
The one i will be going to is allowing me to open it *duh thanks* try it and return it in a fair way should i not be pleased.
And this is if i buy it from the store even! no internet.
So it looks like i will be fine.

Don't take me wrong, i appreciate your suggestions and enthusiasm very much, i think i have hinted that already.
You such a nerd, and where i live, that is good!
I know this is text, internet, but i promize, i am not mad or anything like that.
My intentions is good.

Yeah, the Novation Zero is enough for me also should i ever be unlucky to buy a dead brick with keys. Goody goody.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:26 AM   #33
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If you're looking to use MIDI controllers to send CC messages, then you could do a lot worse than the korg nano stuff - nanopad2, nanokontrol2 etc. They're pretty cheap to replace if ever they should break (mine haven't...yet), and are a breeze to use with the free korg kontrol editor.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:30 AM   #34
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Yes if i have no choise, no help, no alternatives.
I just went though all my local stores policies, and it seems like ive been in the worst one on my first try.
The one i will be going to is allowing me to open it *duh thanks* try it and return it in a fair way should i not be pleased.
And this is if i buy it from the store even! no internet.
So it looks like i will be fine.
Don't get me wrong, but stuff like this, where the actual experience is part of the buying decision, I go out to a shop and demo it there before I buy it. It's worth the trip always as it let you go home with that you want, not some expectation of 'what you might get'.

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Don't take me wrong, i appreciate your suggestions and enthusiasm very much, i think i have hinted that already.
You such a nerd, and where i live, that is good!
I know this is text, internet, but i promize, i am not mad or anything like that.
My intentions is good.
It's the other way around as well, so no problem here. Just don't read to much into my replies, as I'm just here to help but like to make some fun as well (the world is a dark enough place already, we should all lighten up a bit ).

Oh, and I wasn't suggesting the Vortex; I'm just getting one for myself in addition to my UF5. Back in the days I used a DX100 as a strap-on keyboard on stage (it has specific functionality for that), and ever since giving it away (yeah, I know, don't start... ) I'm urging to get a keytar or other strap-on keyboard back because of the feel it gives when playing solos and basslines. I'm not getting rid of my CME UF5, that's just one of the best MIDI-keyboards I ever owned. Not as good as the keyboards on a DX7 or even a ESQ-1 (I have owned both), but those are full synthesizers of course. However, I know people that have a DX7 only to use it as a MIDI-keyboard because of it's incredible good keyboard. For me that didn't work as it has no assignable knobs and sliders.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:35 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by PTF View Post
If you're looking to use MIDI controllers to send CC messages, then you could do a lot worse than the korg nano stuff - nanopad2, nanokontrol2 etc. They're pretty cheap to replace if ever they should break (mine haven't...yet), and are a breeze to use with the free korg kontrol editor.
The Korg Nano controllers are fun stuff, but....

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The keyboard would have to be 61 keys or more, and have assignable knobs and faders and other helpful features. It wont be a small investment
..and...
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I've been playing piano for 7 years so it throws me off sometimes when other places on the internet say the keys are terrible and some say theyre amazing.
... should make it clear that he's not looking for a Nano controller
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:49 AM   #36
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... should make it clear that he's not looking for a Nano controller
You did mention a keytar yourself, hehe!

There's no reason this guy couldn't get a makeshift strap going on a nanopad2, and play it like a guitar. And if he does, he should DEFINITELY do a Pete Townshend style arm-windmill, for sure!
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:04 AM   #37
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You did mention a keytar yourself, hehe!

There's no reason this guy couldn't get a makeshift strap going on a nanopad2, and play it like a guitar. And if he does, he should DEFINITELY do a Pete Townshend style arm-windmill, for sure!
I think you are (still) missing the point; the Vortex was NOT a recommendation, we where talking about the Nektar Panorama P6... and the OP is not looking for a strap-on keyboard, I'm the one going to get one
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by PTF View Post
If you're looking to use MIDI controllers to send CC messages, then you could do a lot worse than the korg nano stuff - nanopad2, nanokontrol2 etc. They're pretty cheap to replace if ever they should break (mine haven't...yet), and are a breeze to use with the free korg kontrol editor.
It has crossed my mind to go with a budget midi keyboard and go with cheap controllers like that.
But, i'm afraid i can't say that the cheaper simpler midi keyboards keys are better or equal if i can put it like that.
Not having tryed everything on the planet, i must say that the feel of the M-Audio Oxygen 61 3d Generation was OK, just the feel though, no sounds so i could hear that i might add.
I think the keys are "only" basic velocity-sensitive, not the extra AXIOM comes with for example.
"TruTouch semi-weighted piano-style keys with aftertouch".
Is it enough for my needs? ohh man, not sure and it kinda bothers me that if that was the case, i could and would buy it on Monday!

Thank you for posting PFT.

Last edited by SmajjL; 11-10-2013 at 08:45 AM. Reason: if i had a dollar for every time...
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:15 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
It has crossed my mind to go with a budget midi keyboard and go with cheap controllers like that.
But, i'm afraid i can't say that the cheaper simpler midi keyboards keys are better or equal if i can put it like that.
Not having tryed everything on the planet, i must say that the feel of the M-Audio Oxygen 61 3d Generation was OK, just the feel though, no sounds so i could hear that i might add.
I think the keys are "only" basic velocity-sensitive, not the extra AXIOM comes with for example.
"TruTouch semi-weighted piano-style keys with aftertouch".
Is it enough for my needs? ohh man, not sure and it kinda bothers be that if that was the case, i could and would buy it on Monday!

Thank you for posting PFT.
There's no shame in getting a top-notch keyboard and a cheap controller for MIDI CCs. Plus a nano controller would look pretty cool and get you lots of attention from the ladies in a attendance!
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Old 11-10-2013, 08:20 AM   #40
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I think you are (still) missing the point; the Vortex was NOT a recommendation, we where talking about the Nektar Panorama P6... and the OP is not looking for a strap-on keyboard, I'm the one going to get one
When you go and buy your keytar, you simply must adopt this pose when trying it out:

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/50...nic+Temple.png
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