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Old 04-27-2014, 04:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Mink99 View Post
Currently we do not know whether midi notes are dropped or the audio output of some elements is missing.
But we *do* know from the OP that *additional* MIDI notes are heard, or notes are heard at the wrong time. Or that arpeggiators switch octaves. That has absolutely nothing to do with "missing audio output of some elements".

Moreover, if you would categorically miss the audio of an entire note, but can simultaneously hear all other notes perfectly, that would seem to indicate MIDI rather than audio issues as well. While it is not perfectly clear from the OP, that seems to be what he's describing to me. Audio dropouts do not sound like specific missing notes, they sound like short missing pieces of *all* audio.
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Btw midi ox (better to say midi yoke ) will not help, because you might be able to send midi to reason but you will not get audio back. Maybe rewire with no midi transfer at all and using the internal sequencer from reason for the reason instruments would help. But that is a guess at the moment.
I don't understand what you're saying there. You can monitor what MIDI is being sent before going through ReWire in REAPER, or simultaneously send it to a virtual/harware MIDI port and monitor it there. Also, I'd figure that you can have Reason send the same MIDI both over ReWire and to external MIDI outputs.

But indeed, the OP's entire setup is a guess at this point. I'm just saying, I don't see *any* indications in the OP that audio driver / latency issues could be responsible for his list of issues. Better focus on MIDI aspects of the setup, imho.
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:27 AM   #42
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The dropouts seem to happen more frequently as I add more instruments. My CPU usage is still very low as I monitor it (never higher than 20% and usually lower than that.) It seems that the more parts I record, the more likely a dropout is to happen (this is just a theory at this point, but in my latest project with a bunch of instruments, I had a few more dropouts than normal during that session.)

I also tested without using Reason and the dropouts happened just as often.

They are not full audio dropouts, they are midi data drops. Again, I will sequence some midi data on any number of instruments, and occasionally the thing just skips a note I sequenced like it wasn't there. If I replay the section again, it works fine, but down the line another note may drop somewhere else.

I'm using the Wasapi drivers with latency set to 10ms. I tried increasing that number but it didn't do much, the drops still happen.

The only midi input devices I use in my setup are a 63 note keyboard for playing sessions and a Nanokey2 for all other midi input. And again, the parts that drop will play fine the next time they are triggered, it's just random note drops that happen over the course of playbacks.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:17 AM   #43
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The dropouts seem to happen more frequently as I add more instruments. My CPU usage is still very low as I monitor it (never higher than 20% and usually lower than that.) It seems that the more parts I record, the more likely a dropout is to happen (this is just a theory at this point, but in my latest project with a bunch of instruments, I had a few more dropouts than normal during that session.)

I also tested without using Reason and the dropouts happened just as often.

They are not full audio dropouts, they are midi data drops. Again, I will sequence some midi data on any number of instruments, and occasionally the thing just skips a note I sequenced like it wasn't there. If I replay the section again, it works fine, but down the line another note may drop somewhere else.

I'm using the Wasapi drivers with latency set to 10ms. I tried increasing that number but it didn't do much, the drops still happen.

The only midi input devices I use in my setup are a 63 note keyboard for playing sessions and a Nanokey2 for all other midi input. And again, the parts that drop will play fine the next time they are triggered, it's just random note drops that happen over the course of playbacks.
Ok, that indeed sounds like a MIDI issue rather than anything related to audio drivers. Good that you eliminated Reason/ReWire from the setup, even if only for diagnostic purposes.

To further hunt down the cause of your issues, I'd suggest we take a look at the MIDI routings in your setup (I would guess that the MIDI hardware devices you have connected probably are not relevant to this issue, btw). Try inserting an instance of ReaControlMIDI right in front of every instrument, to see if it is receiving 'incorrect' MIDI, and doing the same right after any arpeggiator, to see if it is sending 'incorrect' MIDI. If that still doesn't give you any clues, please consider posting an example project, even with empty MIDI items it should provide helpful information about your specific setup.

Fwiw, it's quite easy to create the sort of issues you describe by using an 'incorrect' setup. For example, when you would be using the same MIDI channel to sequence different instruments, while instruments receive MIDI intended for other instruments. Or, by sending MIDI from multiple arpeggiators to the same instrument. Etc.

Since you mention that you have *recorded* several parts, you probably have all recorded them using the same MIDI channel. It's good practice to manually change the MIDI to different channels for different instruments; e.g. channel 1 for bass, channel 2 for strings, etc.), so that even when an instrument receives MIDI intended for a different instrument, it will just ignore it.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:18 PM   #44
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It doesn't seem like anyone mentioned this, so just for completeness... make sure you have disabled Microsoft GS Wavetable synth, It has been known to cause all sorts of strange behavior...

You disable it under Options->Preferences->Audio->MIDI Devices
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:48 PM   #45
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Since you mention that you have *recorded* several parts, you probably have all recorded them using the same MIDI channel. It's good practice to manually change the MIDI to different channels for different instruments; e.g. channel 1 for bass, channel 2 for strings, etc.), so that even when an instrument receives MIDI intended for a different instrument, it will just ignore it.
Thanks for the tip, I will do this from now on. Can you quickly explain how to record on different midi channels or point me to the section of the manual that covers it? I looked up and read the Recording Midi section but either I'm blind or it made no mention of recording on separate channels. Also, is there any way to go back and change the channel once the data is recorded?
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:07 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by georgemarauder View Post
Thanks for the tip, I will do this from now on. Can you quickly explain how to record on different midi channels or point me to the section of the manual that covers it? I looked up and read the Recording Midi section but either I'm blind or it made no mention of recording on separate channels. Also, is there any way to go back and change the channel once the data is recorded?
When you select the input device such as your MIDI keyboard on the track you are recording, you get the choice of All Channels or 1-16. You'd just switch it there as you go. Others might have a quicker method, not sure.

There is one great hint for using Reaper... right-click everything even it if doesn't appear a thing to be right-clicked.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:58 PM   #47
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Just to add: when you used asio4all you were confident with the latency etc. why did you switch back to a Japanese driver ? (Wasabi)

Regarding midi :

You might create one track in reaper, and insert only the obx vst.
Then go to the midi editor and create a simple pattern there. Let us say 1/8 notes octave run. Copy that pattern several times. No loop. Press play . Something missing ?

Next track. Insert the ts808. Go to the pattern editor and create a simple 4 to the floor. Copy that pattern several times. No loop. Press play . Something missing in this or the previous track?

Next track. Insert the arpeggiator and another vsti. Go to the pattern editor and create a simple 2 bar pattern, with one chord as 1/1 notes and another chord as 1/1 notes too.Copy that pattern several times. No loop. Press play . Something missing in this or the previous tracks?

It is not necessary (at this point) to change the midi channels as long as you keep the tracks separated.

And could you post a screenshot of the midi preferences dialog ?
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:19 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Mink99 View Post
why did you switch back to a Japanese driver ? (Wasabi)
Was that a joke?

It's WASAPI, and in a lot of cases it works better than A4A...
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:51 PM   #49
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User did not want to switch to a real sound card with real ASIO . We are in soundblaster land...

And the forum editor always removes the irony tags...
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:25 PM   #50
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Also, is there any way to go back and change the channel once the data is recorded?
You mean you want to output the midi events on a given track to a specific device and channel?

This is how I do it.

Right click on IO for the track you want to channel and select it's destination channel.

P.S. Don't read anything into the MS SW Synth device. What anybody has here will be what they have installed. I just did this on my office PC to show you where the stuff is in the menu so nothing fancy here though does all work fine by the way.
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:41 PM   #51
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You mean you want to output the midi events on a given track to a specific device and channel?

This is how I do it.

Right click on IO for the track you want to channel and select it's destination channel.

P.S. Don't read anything into the MS SW Synth device. What anybody has here will be what they have installed. I just did this on my office PC to show you where the stuff is in the menu so nothing fancy here though does all work fine by the way.
Thanks! I'll change the midi channels so each item has a unique channel from now on and see if that solves anything.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:03 PM   #52
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You mean you want to output the midi events on a given track to a specific device and channel?

This is how I do it.

Right click on IO for the track you want to channel and select it's destination channel.
Almost, but not exactly: he wishes to (destructively) change the MIDI channel of everything in already recorded MIDI items. That way it also affects plug-ins in the same track.

Another (non-destructive) workaround is to change the sending channel on the Media Item Properties, btw. That does affect any destinations for that data, including plug-ins in the same track.

For changing the MIDI channel of all notes *and* any other events in an existing MIDI item, the best way I know, is to view the MIDI item in event list mode, select all events, then use event properties to select a specific MIDI channel. There are also actions for setting all selected events to a specific channel (1 to 16, Cmd IDs 40020 to 40035), which you can assign to keyboard shortcuts.

For *recording* on different MIDI channels, right-click the TCP/MCP > Input: MIDI > Map input to channel > select channel. That way you can ensure that recordings on different tracks (typically containing different instruments) use different MIDI channels, regardless of the MIDI channel of the MIDI keyboard.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:39 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post

For *recording* on different MIDI channels, right-click the TCP/MCP > Input: MIDI > Map input to channel > select channel. That way you can ensure that recordings on different tracks (typically containing different instruments) use different MIDI channels, regardless of the MIDI channel of the MIDI keyboard.
I've never used this method.
Does it monitor correctly? i.e. If you map input to channel 10 and set midi hardware output to a GM compatible device you'd hear drums when you play the keyboard before actually recording?

Follow Up:: So, I got the chance to slip out and check. Yup it's all good like that too. Good to get another angle on things. I tried some things in the routing dialog today. Got a better understanding of using midi channels on sends and receives.

Last edited by Amazed; 04-28-2014 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Follow Up.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:42 PM   #54
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I tried some things in the routing dialog today. Got a better understanding of using midi channels on sends and receives.
REAPER's routing is *super* flexible and powerful, no doubt.

But imho how the sends / receives handle MIDI is a bit, ehm, broken.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:20 PM   #55
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REAPER's routing is *super* flexible and powerful, no doubt.

But imho how the sends / receives handle MIDI is a bit, ehm, broken.
I got it working and didn't find it too cumbersome.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:25 PM   #56
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Hey, we are on vsti not on hardware.....
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:35 PM   #57
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Was that a joke?

It's WASAPI, and in a lot of cases it works better than A4A...
Well I thought it was funny, ED...


Oh, and a +1 for using WASAPI instead of A4A. Every time I tried A4A I had issues of one sort of another, but WASAPI always worked - latency almost as good as the ASIO drivers when I have tried it with my "proper" audio interfaces.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:08 AM   #58
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I am using asio, mostly because the experience and "tradition" in developing drivers on that area is more solid that on windows api s within the manufacturers, my guess.

Microsoft made clear in several announcements that RT Audio is not on their priority list, they are focussing on codecs for telephony, games and multimedia surround solutions etc.

A4A of course is only a fallback solution.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:02 PM   #59
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I'm using Wasapi because I was having trouble getting A4A to work properly. Mainly because I couldn't get it to do multiple things at one time. I'm sort of an adult ADHD type of person, and when I'm making music in Reaper I like to take short breaks and go browse YouTube, or listen to music or something, and not being able to do that while Reaper is running is a problem. If I can somehow figure out how to use A4A and still be able to do 2 things at once, I'll use it, but I tried figuring out the answer the other night and I couldn't figure it out.

I definitely am going to upgrade my soundcard in the future, that's a must. I just need to save my pennies, as money is an issue right now.

Also, just had another weird issue happen. When I use offline render, the pitch of the instruments varies greatly. It sounds completely out of tune and all over the place pitch-wise. Very odd. It's happened twice now in full-speed offline renders. It works fine if I online render, so there is a workaround, but it's a bit of a bummer I can't seem to use regular offline rendering.

Also, is there any way to online render and use 44100 hz? It seems the only way it will work is if I use 48000. Not a major issue or anything but I'm just curious.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:30 AM   #60
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At the risk of offending, George, SAVE those pennies, but be very careful which interface you choose.
Buying cheap will usually wind up costing you more in the long run.
I went through no less than four "cheap" laptop interfaces - A Tascam, an Alesis and two flavours of Focusrite - before settling on the *OUCH*-provoking price of a RME Babyface.
You dont have to go to those lengths to get a good reliable interface, but the money I dropped on the other four would have bought the Babyface!!!!
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