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Old 11-25-2007, 11:11 AM   #1
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Default UAD-1 playback/render problem [Reaper 2.011]

Hi!
I'm having serious problems with my UAD vs Reaper. My problem I havent been able to solve is to create flawless renders. First of all my config/settings.

my PC config: Intel Core2duo E6300, Asus P5b, Kingmax DDR2-800 2*1GB, E-mu 1820m
my [starting] Reaper settings which may be in connection with my problem. / reaper 2.011 /

FX processing settings are unchecked.


FX processing settings are unchecked.
UAD-1 synchronous mode off


my UAD settings (latest (4.8) software)


Okay, to represent my problem let's say i want to get a slightly overdriven sounding kick with disco character. Sample hunting ended,bpm is set to let's say 125, 4p4 pattern created.
I select Cambridge eq to boost a little bit. Good stuff, I love the Cambridge! With the feature presented above loop-playback is good, no problem. But, If i make a render (force 1x render is checked) the first sample will not be rendered perfectly.



If I selected UAD-1 synchronous mode in the preferences even the playback would sound the same like this render.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:12 AM   #2
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The Silence you can se above and below is actually 1279 samples long.





But if i shift the kick pattern a little further, I mean the loop selection is not starting from the first beat, the render is ok.


I have tried to find the right settings in the PCI Bus settins in the UAD-1 configuration window. The default is 64, I found 32 the best. By now I went through all of the possibilites I could think of but I did not manage to achieve both flawless render and playback.

I also get random click noise when bypassing/re-enabling the fx. Here is my video that represents my problem (during playback) ( 6Mb wmv file), you can download it from here:
http://mail.roik.bmf.hu/~diak7/nappa...Dproblem01.avi
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:44 AM   #3
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So when using UAD plugins and in order not to suffer with the render I have to shift the items created.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:37 PM   #4
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Simply putting the items further and render the loop selectoin does not solve the problem. So this way I get the same result. [ first sample is not rendered correctly ]




finally, this is the solution I could find, render the loop selection like this above.

At least it works this way. Both the playback and the render...
But it should work if i make my selection without the empty spaces before the events..

thanks for your help in advance!

/boka
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:01 PM   #5
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Not sure why you are getting that gap in your renders. Does it happen everytime or is it intermittent? Is this a track render (bounce) or a project render? Have you tried changing the card to a different PCI slot? Make sure that your audio & UAD-1 cards are not in a "shared" PCI slot. I have a very similar DAW setup (Core Duo e6300/ASUS P5B-E). After consulting with the MB manual I discovered that the PCI lot that my UAD-1 had "internally" shared IRQ assigments with the onboard HD Audio device and a USB Host Controller. I ended up just disabling those devices (I did not need them) so that the UAD-1 was on it's own IRQ. I also disabled other devices that I was not using thereby freeing up even more IRQ's (Parallel Port & Com ports).



FYI, I have included some pics of the REAPER
Preferences settings, that I use for best performance,
when using UAD-1 plugins:


REAPERv2.012 Buffer Settings:





REAPERv2.012 Playback Settings:






REAPERv2.012 Audio Device Settings:






REAPERv2.012 Audio Settings:


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Old 11-25-2007, 04:02 PM   #6
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REAPERv2.12 VST Settings/UAD Configuration Settings:





Cheers,

Billy Buck
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka View Post
UAD-1 synchronous mode off
Synchronous mode really needs to be on! Without it you will get glitches and/or UAD driver crashes.

-Justin
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Synchronous mode really needs to be on! Without it you will get glitches and/or UAD driver crashes.

-Justin
I agree it should stay enabled. Having it enabled has no adverse affect on UAD performance, if the rest of the configuration settings are adhered to.
Hey Justin, the Syncronous FX multiprocessing switch is working better than ever here. I have a mixed UAD/native plugin REAPER project @ 1024, using both cores with sustained CPU usage as high as 74-78% with nary a crackle or dropout.

(30) UAD-1 plugins
(18) Native plugins
*including several Nebula 3's, (6) Gearbox VST's, Amplitube 2, Trash, Perfect Space, lots of WAVES plugins.


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Old 11-26-2007, 01:34 AM   #9
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As for my IRQ setup:

My sound card and 2 of the usb ports are on 23, can it have effect on my UAD problem?


Billy: Thanks for sharing/posting your settings.I compared them to my one and we have absolutely similar settings.
Only Synchronous Fx Multiprocessing limit to 2 CPU-s is unchecked here, should i select it checked? I tried it before but it did not realize any difference.


Justin : I understand that the UAD-1 synchronous mode should be checked in the preferences but i keep getting glitches even in playback too as you may have seen in my video.

/boka
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:53 AM   #10
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I'm having similar problems with UAD, although in my case both cards drop out (error-21) and I need to reboot to restore them.

This has only started since V2. V1 was solid as a rock - the reason I switched to reaper in the first place
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulls Hit View Post
I'm having similar problems with UAD
I hope it will be solved asap for both of us.
I really need my UAD for my work...
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka View Post
My sound card and 2 of the usb ports are on 23, can it have effect on my UAD problem?
USB Host Controllers are the absolute worst to have sharing with an audio/DSP device. Even if you are not actually using them they are constantly "polling" (hence plug & play) which could interupt the audio data stream causing a glitch. Try disabling those USB Host Controllers or moving the card to another PCI slot. You really need to consult your P5B MB manual and find out what (if any) "shared" IRQ assignments are for each PCI slot. There are only (16) hardware IRQ assignments (0-15) anything over 15 is virtual and probably sharing. You can see this in the IRQ assignment table in your MB manual. It will show you what is really going on underneath, at the hardware level. The easiest thing is to try another PCI slot or disable any devices you are not using (parallel/com ports, unused USB ports, etc.)and re-boot. Do you have any free PCI slots?

Quote:
Billy: Thanks for sharing/posting your settings.I compared them to my one and we have absolutely similar settings.
Only Synchronous Fx Multiprocessing limit to 2 CPU-s is unchecked here, should i select it checked? I tried it before but it did not realize any difference.
Are you really sure they are absolutely similar, just from the few screen shots you provided I see lot's of differences in our preferences settings:

UAD-1 Compatibilty mode is unchecked
Syncronous FX multiprocessing is unchecked
Better Buggy processingReplacing compatibility mode is checked

DSP Settings:Limit CPU Load is checked
PCI Bus Settings: MIN_GNT is set to 32

If I looked at the rest of your UAD related preferences I might spot other differences, as well. Do you have the Run FX when Stopped enabled? Take another close look at my preferences settings.


Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 11-26-2007, 08:25 AM   #13
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Here is a shot of the render of the project in my previous post. I did several renders and they all came out "gap" free with both cores fully utilized during the render. One thing I should mention related to the gap in render issue. I use my Delta 66 PCI, as my primary record/playback device, but I also have a TonePort UX2 USB device, as well. I had always kept it connected (USB) with the device/drivers available, for use, in REAPER. I started to get a visible & audible "gap" like the pic in the first post when doing a render in REAPER. This single "gap" would occur, at a different point in the render file, after an export and would be twice the project latency (around 2048 samples), in length. This was quite disconcerting, at the time, as you can imagine, until I figured out the probable cause. Once I disconnected the TonePort UX2 USB cable, from my DAW, all resulting renders were gap free. I always kept my TonePort connected, in the past (even if not being actively used) and never had a problem with "gaps" in renders. The only thing I can think of, is that I did upgrade the GearBox software/drivers from v3.01 to v3.5 around the time this "gap" on renders started to intermittantly occur. So my modus operandi is to disconnect my TonePorts USB cable from my DAW when rendering, for gap free renders. FYI, this same issue with the TonePort,(gap in render when USB cable is connected), occurs in SONAR 7, as well. Which leads me to believe it is a GearBox v3.5 USB driver issue.

Gap (glitch) in render when TonePort UX2 USB (v3.50) is connected and not used:



I do have a question for Justin. I notice that when rendering the FX CPU use goes up dramatically, when watching REAPER's Performance Meter. FX CPU use that shows a steady 51-53% during playback will zoom to 80% or even 105%, at times, during a render. It does not really seem to affect anything, just curious as to why that happens:




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Old 11-26-2007, 12:50 PM   #14
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Billy, I will read it over again.

I checked my bios settings and i couldn't find how to disable separately those 2 usb ports which are on same IRQ with my E-mu card. Does it make sense to disable them in Win xp?


Thanks!
/boka
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka View Post
I checked my bios settings and i couldn't find how to disable separately those 2 usb ports which are on same IRQ with my E-mu card. Does it make sense to disable them in Win xp?


Thanks!
/boka
You can disable your parallel & com ports from your BIOS that will free up IRQ's. I even disabled my floppy drive to free up another IRQ. Like who really uses old floppy drives anymore? The USB Host Controllers can be disabled from the the Device Manger in Windows. It can be a bit tricky figuring out which USB Host Controller controls which USB ports. For me, it was just trial & error (one at a time) until I found the right combination. You don't have to re-boot. As soon as you disable a particular USB Host Controller, from the Device Manager the USB ports assigned to that USB Host Controller will no longer function. There are usually (2) USB ports (in pairs) assigned to each host controller.


Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 11-27-2007, 04:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybk1 View Post
It can be a bit tricky figuring out which USB Host Controller controls which USB ports. For me, it was just trial & error (one at a time) until I found the right combination. You don't have to re-boot.
That's what I've been thinking of... for instance, which usb port is ICH-8 2836 referring to...

Billy, I tried your settings but I got more gaps... :'(

Yesterday I talked to 2 of my friends who are also UAD & Reaper users and they sent me screenshots with they reaper settings. None of their congigs fit to my setup.They both had difficulties at getting the right setup and finally they figured out that UAD works with reaper if UAD-1 Syncrhonous mode is not checked. So It seems that it does not have to be chekced necessarily.. ? It depends on the PC...
My idea would be to try every each combination of settings to find the only one that works perfectly.


Justin : If I do not succeed I might try to give a bit more detailed explanation of my problem. Do you think is possible to check the UAD-1 issue in order no to have so much difficulty at setting it up in Reaper?


Thanks for your help!

/boka
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:11 AM   #17
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Hey boka,
You may want to check out Adjusting PCI Latency Settings to Fix Clicking and Popping Problems (by Joe Bryan and Tom Freeman) Support Report, from the June 2005 issue of the monthly UA WebZine:

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/j.../content5.html


You can prioritize your DAW PCI Latency Timer settings with a free software tool. This can fix clicking & popping problems,
which I already knew, during playback. But, I did not realize my audio card should have had top priority, so I bumped it up to 248, from 64 (kept my UAD-1 cards @ 64) and I have noticed, much better low latency performance, without crackles and more even CPU distribution, on my Core Duo.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 11-27-2007, 07:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybk1 View Post
Hey boka,
You may want to check out Adjusting PCI Latency Settings to Fix Clicking and Popping Problems (by Joe Bryan and Tom Freeman) Support Report, from the June 2005 issue of the monthly UA WebZine:

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/j.../content5.html

Wow!! Thanks for the URL. I'll read it as soon as I've got home.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:25 AM   #19
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So...

I read the article and installed PCI Latency Tool and set the values. I also disabled those 2 USB ports which were on same IRQ with my E-mu soundcard. The fact is that glitch in loop selection render still exist if there is item in the beginning of the selection. If i leave a little empty space before the loop starts so i lengthen my selection everything goes well, both the playback and the render. One more thing I experienced. If I do not leave empty space before the loop so an entire four quarter is selected there are a little gap in the playback BUT if i disable my UAD during playback and re-enable it, everything is ok with the playback afterwards. (render still sucks )


/boka
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:50 AM   #20
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I am having major troubles using Nebula 2 with my (3) UAD-1 PCI cards when configuring Reaper the way Billy suggests. When I insert Nebula2 or Nebula2 Reverb (commercial) I get major gapping on playback, even though the CPU use is low and not spiking. These problems disappear when enabling Anticipative FX. But, then there are major rapid dropouts (crackling) using UAD plugins. UAD mode under VST preferences does not appear to change anything.

My temporary solution is to enable Anticipative FX and turn off Synchrounous FX and UAD compatible mode in VST prefs. If I hit play in Reaper, then quickly turn the UAD plugins off and back on again with the UAD-1 Meter, playback is smooth and glitch-free. The only time the glitches come back is when I start and stop playback, sometimes when I solo a track, and--oddly--when I open the GUI for Nebula2. Whenever the glitches come back I turn the UAD-1 plugs off and then on again with the UAD-1 Meter and playback is smooth again. This is a major pain in the ass but it is the only way I can use my UAD-1 plugins with Nebula2. If I am using Synchronous FX mode in Reaper with Anticipative FX disabled, I cannot stop the gapping playback even if I turn UAD plugins off and then on again.

Justin, would it be possible to enable a different UAD mode in Reaper that completely turns off all UAD plugins and then turns them back on again whenever playback is stopped and started (i.e., do what I manually do by using the UAD-1 Meter)? This would fix a lot of my problems and enable me to use the best buffering mode for my Q6600.

Billy, I'm baffled as to why Nebula3 is working with your UAD-1 cards and Nebula2 is not working with mine. I have talked to Acusticaudio and tried some of their suggestions of altering my Nebula2.xml file but nothing helps (not even the latest build of Nebula). Hopefully all of us UAD users can get to the bottom of our problems!

- Jim Bob
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:20 AM   #21
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Billy, I'm baffled as to why Nebula3 is working with your UAD-1 cards and Nebula2 is not working with mine.
I guess I live a charmed life. Seriously though, my DAW is self-built and all components have been pre-selected & optimized for DAW use. I have no other extraneous apps installed (except those related to making music & editing video) and I don't surf the net with it. It's a lean, clean music making machine.
If you have a dedicated DAW that is setup properly and you have followed all my REAPER setup instructions to the letter (you can't just pick & choose which to do, as one can affect another), and you are still having issues, I don't what more to tell you. I can use (4) UAD-1 cards worth of UAD-1 plugins (sometimes 30-50 at a time), lot's of native FX & virtual instruments (even multiple instances of Nebula 3, GearBox VST, convoultion reverbs, WAVES plugins, whatever) and playback is crackle/dropout free, looping is flawless & my renders are pristine. I hope you guys get it figured out, but I can't help but think that there is something else going on in your DAW's or you don't have your UAD-1's and/or REAPER setup exactly like I do. I also have this same DAW/UAD-1 setup working successfully in SONAR 7, as well. I can effortless switch between using REAPER & SONAR 7 and the only thing I change is the SONAR Compatibilty mode (which I activate when using SONAR to alleviate the CPU munch), from the UAD-1 Performance Meter.

Cheers,

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Old 11-27-2007, 10:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jba View Post
Justin, would it be possible to enable a different UAD mode in Reaper that completely turns off all UAD plugins and then turns them back on again whenever playback is stopped and started (i.e., do what I manually do by using the UAD-1 Meter)?

+1 for that...it would be really good to have a sophisticated UAD support
(and of course we could help test if anything new got added to reaper in connection with UAD)
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka View Post
+1 for that...it would be really good to have a sophisticated UAD support
(and of course we could help test if anything new got added to reaper in connection with UAD)

I don't know what more Justin can do. He does not have a UAD-1 to test on even if he wanted to. So I would not get your hopes up, especially if there other UAD-1 users that do not have these issues. He could start changing things blindly, for a few, which could disrupt those of us that already have it working perfectly. In all honesty, if you can't get it to work, in REAPER 2.012, you might want to consider selling the UAD-1 or going to another DAW VST host that is proven to work perfectly with your UAD cards. I am sure that is not what you want to hear, but just trying to be realistic about it and maybe save some of the hair on your head.

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Old 11-27-2007, 11:55 AM   #24
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Thanks for the suggestions, Billy; I appreciate your help. I also built my DAW from the ground up recently and everything really works OK except for Nebula2! I'll just keep doing my workaround (turning UAD-1 meter off and on) when I want to use Nebula2 and hope either UA updates its drivers to be more multi-core friendly (so we can use Anticipative FX without any issues) or Justin discovers some other way of dealing with the UAD cards' craziness.

Of course I really appreciate all the work he and Cristoph have done to get the UAD cards working with Reaper. I was just hoping to have a completely seamless Reaper/UAD/Nebula experience, which isn't happening yet!
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jba View Post
Thanks for the suggestions, Billy; I appreciate your help. I also built my DAW from the ground up recently and everything really works OK except for Nebula2! I'll just keep doing my workaround (turning UAD-1 meter off and on) when I want to use Nebula2 and hope either UA updates its drivers to be more multi-core friendly (so we can use Anticipative FX without any issues) or Justin discovers some other way of dealing with the UAD cards' craziness.
Hey Jim,
You may want to check out the latest v2.013 update. Justin added an interesting twist. You can now (apparently, I have not checked yet myself), set Anticipative FX Processing on a per track basis. It has always been a global function before. What this means is that you set the track (which includes any bus or buses it is routed to), for Anticipative FX Processing which is what you need for your Nebula 2 to work efficiently with REAPER & your quad cores. The only caveat, is that you can't have the Nebula on any track or bus that a UAD-1 plugin is routed to. The UAD-1 plugins do not work effectively with Anticipative FX Processing enabled, which is why it is recommended to have it disabled before, since it was a global function. This may solve your Nebula 2 problem. Just make sure any track/buses that have UAD-1 plugins still have Anticipative FX Processing disabled or you may get even more problems.

Cheers,

Billy Buck
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:49 PM   #26
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Still couldn't manage to take a step forward with my UAD problem...:-/
It's my birthday today and I was hoping that my UAD would work with Reaper by today without any gaps... :'(

anyway, I'm not giving up...
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:29 PM   #27
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Billy, yes, there are users having no problem with UAD, but It would be absolutely cool if Reaper had total UAD support like Cubase or Logic has. I mean not to have only couple of satisfied Reaper&UAD users but all of them could use it without problem and complaint. Those who have only a projekt pak with 1 card and even those power users who have 4 cards installed. From my view this would be a bit better approach of the problem and none of us would have disadvantage from it. What do you think?

/boka
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:28 PM   #28
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I do appreciate the new per track buffering options in 2.013. Hopefully this will help some users out there. For me, the situation is not really improved. I use UAD-1 plugins on virtually every track (esp. 88RS). I already have elaborate routing schemes with multiple tracks and it would seriously impede and clutter my workflow to create separate tracks for UAD and Nebula plugins. Even then, in almost every scenario I am sending tracks with UAD plugins out to other tracks, which would have to have Anticipative FX off. So there is no point to enabling Anticipative FX at all and I am back at where I was--turning the UAD-1 plugins off and on manually through the UAD-1 Meter.

At least with my work-around I don't have to choose between using UAD plugins or Nebula2. But I do have to put up with the hastle of random glitches and disabling/enabling the UAD plugins. I am glad that I can get the job done right now, but I'm sad to see that UAD-1 implementation is not 100% there in Reaper for myself and a few others.....yet. I never had a problem with UAD integration with Nuendo3 but I don't have a license anymore so I can't test it with Nebula 2. Plus I refuse to use any other DAW but Reaper from now on!!!

-jimbob
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:43 PM   #29
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Plus I refuse to use any other DAW but Reaper from now on!!!

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So do I :-)


same situation here if i disable/enable UAD effects during playback everything seems to be ok (in playback). I still have not found any trick for rendering without gaps...

/boka
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:11 AM   #30
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Well, I can say that I have never had any problems rendering any files using UAD plugins in Reaper. At least I'm lucky in that sense

I'm trying to set up a macro using Autohotkeys to quickly disable and re-enable the UAD plugins through the UAD meter but I haven't been successful yet. If I can figure it out it would save me some mouse clicks.
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:22 AM   #31
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My latest results : If there is only 1 or 2 items put on the timeline and I use UAD on them everything goes well :-/
But if I load my project file in which i had 20+ tracks, lots of items and UAD effects as well there are gaps in both playback/render.
It's strange...
Does any of you have idea how to go on looking for the solution?

thanks
/boka
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:32 AM   #32
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Default Same problem

Hi!

I have a same problem. It wasn't problem before 2.014, but now it's a seriously bug!

I don't have any changes in my config. When I use UAD plugins and start playing, I hear a glich, noise, pattanás etc. When I putted back 2.011, R worked perfektly! It's same problem in render mode, like Boka and Beat-by-bit. But I don't have problem with looping, only on the start.

Please, do something!

Thank You and bye,
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:41 AM   #33
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oh yes, lots of "pattanás" here.. (crackle)

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Old 12-03-2007, 03:10 AM   #34
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->Still have lots of crackles when adding UAD plugin in fx list.
->If having 10-15+tracks with at least 8-9 plugins I experience glitches in both playback and render.

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Old 12-14-2007, 01:01 PM   #35
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Default Reaper 2.016

It's just getting worse....:-/
Reaper v 2.016
Apart from the crackles and render/pb problem stuffs I got this error window...



I re-installed the UAD-1 software again, and It seems not to be giving this error window anymore.

Justin could you please spend time on UAD-1 issue,please?

/boka
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:32 PM   #36
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Justin could you please spend time on UAD-1 issue,please?

/boka
If only UA would spend some time on it They've had years
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:52 PM   #37
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If only UA would spend some time on it They've had years
From what I've read over the years it does seem UA *can be* sometimes glitchy outside of a certain few daws, and for some people even then. While others cruise along happily with no issues. Maybe UA just fixes thing to work in those daws... I don't know. I think Pipe is on the right track though.

On a related note...

Reaper has tons of configuration options that when taken as a whole has to be (I can't personally do the math) many possible combinations. At this stage, it *may* be getting close to time for configuation storage and recall?

Passing config settings back and forth via JPG seems a bit outdated for a daw at the level of Reaper. If a user with a known config could simply save it, name it, and pass it on for others to load and try... it might offer some benefit. At least a new user would have some presets to start with for certain scenarios.

Not to mention storing different config settings that work better for different chores locally that can be changed from a menu. Or are all of these options "set and forget" for all chores?

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Old 12-14-2007, 06:21 PM   #38
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Reaper has tons of configuration options that when taken as a whole has to be (I can't personally do the math) many possible combinations. At this stage, it *may* be getting close to time for configuation storage and recall?
+1

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Old 12-14-2007, 06:50 PM   #39
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+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:50 AM   #40
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If a user with a known config could simply save it, name it, and pass it on for others to load and try... it might offer some benefit. At least a new user would have some presets to start with for certain scenarios.
hmmm...Billy tried his best at posting his settings quite well-detailed. Taking into consideration that he's got almost the same pc config and his settings did not work here, I do not think it'd work. Every single pc is a totally different system.



Quote:
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If only UA would spend some time on it They've had years
That's right. Is it simply impossible to get UA to work on harmonizing the uad-1 with reaper? Has any of you already tried to send them bug reports? I do hope somehow this problem will be solved...


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