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Old 02-12-2015, 05:18 PM   #41
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Update 2/12/2015, 4 pm PST:

I hooked up the Profire 2626 to my primary DAW and found that it is still working. It is playing back music just fine. So that confirms a couple of things:

(1) the unit is physically okay
(2) the firewire cable is physically okay

But it still won't work with my Pro Tools DAW.

The plot thickens!
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:29 PM   #42
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Update 2/12/2015, 4 pm PST:


But it still won't work with my Pro Tools DAW.

The plot thickens!
well chalk another delight up to AVID... sorry about that peter but glad to hear the 2626 is fine and dandy
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:58 PM   #43
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well chalk another delight up to AVID... sorry about that peter but glad to hear the 2626 is fine and dandy
I just noticed something. Avid spelled backwards.... Could be the problem.

Anyway great news Peter!
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:10 PM   #44
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Update 5:02 pm:

I still couldn't get the M audio pro fire 2626 to work with the big DAW, but I did get the Project mix Profire (also M Audio) to work with the big DAW.

So that proves that there's nothing wrong with the firewire ports on the big DAW.

And onwards we plod ...
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:56 PM   #45
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So that proves that there's nothing wrong with the firewire ports on the big DAW.
I wouldn't go so far - actually I have no idea how this really works, but I assume a much more demanding device (such as the 2626), might result in errors on a somewhat faulty Firewire chip (by using more of the available address space?), which still works fine with a less demanding device - but I'm really just assuming here...
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:44 AM   #46
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I wouldn't go so far - actually I have no idea how this really works, but I assume a much more demanding device (such as the 2626), might result in errors on a somewhat faulty Firewire chip (by using more of the available address space?), which still works fine with a less demanding device - but I'm really just assuming here...
Thanks Jens ... I don't know what the heck is going on, I'll call Sweetwater later today. In the meantime I got me another inexpensive soundcard from Behringer which has both UBS and firewire, either one should work ok. Hard to go wrong at a little over $200 (demo unit).

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FCA1616

I can still use the Profire daisychained to the Projectmix which will give me up to 8 physical outputs, that way I'll be able to work both in Reaper and Pro Tools in 5.1 simultaneously. That should give me maximum flexibility in terms of going back and forth between the two programs.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:01 AM   #47
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peter just a fyi

most people say 'you gotta have the TI chipset for FW audio'

ummm... 'scuse me, but..'
my mobo [ausu] comes with the VIA fw port... and the 2626 lit right up with that...

but, being an asshole, I thougt I'd get and try a pcie card with a real TI chip and see if it was better...

so I did... and guess what? It was poopy... and a real PITA... sent it back and have the onboard VIA FW ever since....

the only issues I find are the card can now and then get confused is something on a youtube site crashes... then I have power cycle it and it comes back [almost always] ...worst case a reboot.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:21 AM   #48
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peter just a fyi

most people say 'you gotta have the TI chipset for FW audio'

ummm... 'scuse me, but..'
my mobo [ausu] comes with the VIA fw port... and the 2626 lit right up with that...

but, being an asshole, I thougt I'd get and try a pcie card with a real TI chip and see if it was better...

so I did... and guess what? It was poopy... and a real PITA... sent it back and have the onboard VIA FW ever since....

the only issues I find are the card can now and then get confused is something on a youtube site crashes... then I have power cycle it and it comes back [almost always] ...worst case a reboot.
I went through a lot of that, XP and Win 7 preferred different cards. Still iffy at times. No issues with it on either of my Macs.

edit - thinking about it more, high sample rates cause some high buzzing interference in the monitors, even with master volume down. I'm sure this was also on Windows.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:05 PM   #49
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peter just a fyi

most people say 'you gotta have the TI chipset for FW audio'

ummm... 'scuse me, but..'
my mobo [ausu] comes with the VIA fw port... and the 2626 lit right up with that...

but, being an asshole, I thougt I'd get and try a pcie card with a real TI chip and see if it was better...

so I did... and guess what? It was poopy... and a real PITA... sent it back and have the onboard VIA FW ever since....

the only issues I find are the card can now and then get confused is something on a youtube site crashes... then I have power cycle it and it comes back [almost always] ...worst case a reboot.
Checking the TI chipset for firewire is one of the things the M Audio support guy told me, I checked it, but as I thought I actually do have a TI based chipset. So that can't be the issue.

Another thing I checked was whether there were any conflicting drivers installed, and true enough, there was another M Audio firewire driver for my other M Audio projectmix sound card. But even after uninstalling that one and reinstalling the other driver, it still doesn't work.

Well, whatever ... new sound card is on the way which hopefully doesn't have issues (Behringer which is both UBS and firewire). This computer is a heavy monster, and was built way back in 2008, I don't want to go through the hassle of having to take it out of the rack and ship it to a repairing facility. Not worth the trouble, easier to just buy a new $200 soundcard and use this one as an extender for the projectmix. This computer has been upgraded several times over the years, from XP32 to XP64 bit to Windows 7 64 bit, with triple boot, memory upgrades, RAM expanded, now it's at its limit given the motherboard. Good enough for relatively straight forward PT sessions (which in PT 10 is 32 bit anyway).

I've actually been thinking of getting a totally new monster DAW, all specked up to the present max (64 GB or 128 GB RAM), maybe custom built again by one of the big boys, but with my present project I don't really need all that oompf so that is for another day.
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:26 PM   #50
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I'm now re-reading old M Audio forum posts that I posted several years ago - turns out I had exactly the same problem back then. I believe - but now I'm not sure about anything anymore - that I was able to fix it back then.

If you go to the M Audio community support forum, you will find dozens and dozens of posts of people having similar problems - not encouraging.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:43 PM   #51
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I have a profire2626 lying around which has broken converters.
Man, m-audio is distilled poop.

Anyway if you can make it work on another PC, that means that most probably the problem is somewhere in your windows installation. There are 4 things you can do to try to make it work:
1) Open up Device Manager, find your FireWire chip there and replace the driver with the "legacy" driver
2) If you have System Restore enabled, you can try to restore your system to some date when Profire had been working. Usually restore points are automatically created when software or updates are installed. BTW it might be that a windows update left your system damaged.
3) If you are a little serious about making Profire work with that machine again and you want to make sure it's possible, you can create a new partition on your HDD and make a new installation of windows. You need to make sure you know what you're doing or you might end up destroying your data
4) you can attempt to uninstall anything that has "m-audio" in it, then manually cleaning up windows registry, then reinstalling m-audio drivers. Dangerous! Don't try this unless you know what you're doing! Your machine might end up eating your cat.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:23 PM   #52
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I have a profire2626 lying around which has broken converters.
Man, m-audio is distilled poop.

Anyway if you can make it work on another PC, that means that most probably the problem is somewhere in your windows installation. There are 4 things you can do to try to make it work:
1) Open up Device Manager, find your FireWire chip there and replace the driver with the "legacy" driver
2) If you have System Restore enabled, you can try to restore your system to some date when Profire had been working. Usually restore points are automatically created when software or updates are installed. BTW it might be that a windows update left your system damaged.
3) If you are a little serious about making Profire work with that machine again and you want to make sure it's possible, you can create a new partition on your HDD and make a new installation of windows. You need to make sure you know what you're doing or you might end up destroying your data
4) you can attempt to uninstall anything that has "m-audio" in it, then manually cleaning up windows registry, then reinstalling m-audio drivers. Dangerous! Don't try this unless you know what you're doing! Your machine might end up eating your cat.
Thanks Innuendo, appreciate your feedback. For now I think I'm just going to let it go, I plugged in my EMU USB card and it worked immediately. Plug and play, the way it should be. Good to go for at least a simple stereo Pro Tools session and start working on that.

Later this week my new Behringer will come in, at that point I'll take a look at the whole setup. I could still use the M Audio firewire slaved to the Projectmix with optical cables, giving me several more inputs and outputs. I tried that this afternoon but even to do that I need to change the profire mixer settings through the DSP - which obviously doesn't work on this computer. Just to change that I can probably hook it up to one of my other computers (have two more laptops for just mails / web browsing etc) but that is for another day.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:10 AM   #53
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In that setup with Behringer, you'll need to work with a constant sampling rate if you want to clock the Behringer to the Profire. Since you won't be able to change the sampling rate from software with hardware following.
Otherwise, you'll need to clock you Profire to Behringer. Which might not be a great idea... I don't know for sure what's up with this specific Behringer product, though. Maybe it's golden. Anyway it's better to clock a low-end converter to itself rather than to another source. AFAIK.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:33 AM   #54
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In that setup with Behringer, you'll need to work with a constant sampling rate if you want to clock the Behringer to the Profire. Since you won't be able to change the sampling rate from software with hardware following.
Otherwise, you'll need to clock you Profire to Behringer. Which might not be a great idea... I don't know for sure what's up with this specific Behringer product, though. Maybe it's golden. Anyway it's better to clock a low-end converter to itself rather than to another source. AFAIK.
I'm planning to use the Behringer as primary sound card for Pro Tools, and clock the profire to the projectmix so I have a few additional outputs (and inputs). All of my sessions are at 24 bit / 48 kHz so I shouldn't have to change things around all too often.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:22 AM   #55
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I'm planning to use the Behringer as primary sound card for Pro Tools, and clock the profire to the projectmix so I have a few additional outputs (and inputs). All of my sessions are at 24 bit / 48 kHz so I shouldn't have to change things around all too often.
I'm not sure how you are going to connect the three devices, I just wanted to make sure that you know this stuff reg. clocking. All the digitally connected devices should be clocked to the same source, and low-end converters usually perform better when clocked to their internal clock.
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:30 PM   #56
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I'm not sure how you are going to connect the three devices, I just wanted to make sure that you know this stuff reg. clocking. All the digitally connected devices should be clocked to the same source, and low-end converters usually perform better when clocked to their internal clock.
Clocking is not the right word, the profire would be daisychained to the projectmix via optical cables. That's at least what M Audio told me a couple of years ago, fwiw.

The Behringer would run standalone on a second, dedicated Pro Tools computer.

So I'd have two different computers running simultaneously, one for Reaper and Sibelius, the other for Pro Tools.

The speakers are now physically connected to the projectmix (well only 4 since it is limited to 4 outputs). Analogue audio outputs of the Behringer go back to the projectmix / profire.

This sounds pretty complex but it is actually quite straightforward - if it all works - and I'd be able to run Reaper, Sibelius and Pro Tools at the same time which is the purpose of the exercise.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:22 PM   #57
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After upgrading to PT 10.3.10 my sound card (EBU 0404 USB) is not recognized - "could not initialize ASIO".

Gotta love pro tools.
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:12 PM   #58
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Clocking is not the right word, the profire would be daisychained to the projectmix via optical cables. That's at least what M Audio told me a couple of years ago, fwiw.
Basically this daisy-chaining _is_ clocking. The optical signal bears the digital audio signal and the clock. You'll need to decide which device will be clock master and which one clock slave, and configure them this way. At least for the Profire, this is only possible to configure through its Control Panel. If Profire is not going to interface with the computer, you'll need to tell it what source to sync to in Standalone mode.
Alternatively you can clock them by wordclock cable, with similar prerequisites (master/slave).

If the device that will interface your computer is clock master, your hardware clock will follow your software clock. If computer-facing device is clock slave, your hardware clock will not follow your software clock and in case you want to switch sample rate, you'll need to do this on the clock master device.

Here's this topic discussed on another forum:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/b...eshooting.html

I guess when you are not recording, it matters less which device is clock master. When you _are_ recording, this setting might affect the quality of the recording. Profire has this clock stabilization system, but frankly I can not tell how good or bad it is. I can say that I have compared Profire's converters to RME FireFace UCX converters and there is some difference in quality (recordings made through UCX's converters sound more "in focus"). Not like heaven-and-hell difference, but something one can effortlessly tell. I have no background knowledge on ProjectMix.

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The speakers are now physically connected to the projectmix (well only 4 since it is limited to 4 outputs).
You can use Profire's 8 outputs if you need more. I personally only have 2 speakers and happy :-)

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Analogue audio outputs of the Behringer go back to the projectmix / profire.
As long as you don't establish digital connection between the Behringer and the Projectmix/Profire, that should work. The quality will be impaired by the abundance of converters on its way, though. You may or may not notice. You may even like this! I don't know. But I would try to avoid any unnecessary low-end conversion. But then I'm a purist!
As a purist, I would set 1 device in this system as clock master and clock everyone else to it, and interconnect everything digitally.

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This sounds pretty complex but it is actually quite straightforward - if it all works - and I'd be able to run Reaper, Sibelius and Pro Tools at the same time which is the purpose of the exercise.
Please keep us posted :-)

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Old 02-16-2015, 04:24 PM   #59
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After upgrading to PT 10.3.10 my sound card (EBU 0404 USB) is not recognized - "could not initialize ASIO".

Gotta love pro tools.
How many audio interfaces do you have? Sounds like A LOT!

Considering previous problems with the Profire, it could be that something's wrong with your Windows.
Or alternatively, this might be a coincidence. You can try running some different ASIO software and see if it communicates with the audio interface.
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:33 PM   #60
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Another thing to keep in mind is that most converters and audio digital interconnects are limited to 24 bits resolution. Probably you can safely assume this is the case with all your devices. A purist would dither audio going out through any of these converters and digital interconnects.
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Old 02-16-2015, 06:15 PM   #61
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Thank you for your detailed feedback Innuendo - you are very kind.

Yes, I do have a number of audio interfaces:

- M Audio Profire 2626
- M Audio Projectmix I/O
- EMU USB 0404
- Indigo I/O (that is a professional soundcard specifically for laptops)

And I have two custom built PCs, one rack mounted PC built back in 2008 and since then upgraded to now Windows 7. This is my "Pro Tools computer". The other one is a custom built laptop which I had built back in 2009 by PC Audiolabs. This is my main composition computer for Sibelius and Reaper.

In case you're wondering what the hell I was thinking buying all this shit -- well that is a long story, suffice to say that right now, and having moved to a new awesome place in Oakland, I am finally able to put together all the little pieces of the puzzle and create my ideal workflow which is being able to work on one project using 3 programs at the same time.

Today I made some progress, by downloading and installing ASIO4all which allowed Pro Tools to recognize my EMU USB sound card. Before you get too excited, obviously that doesn't mean there is sound coming out of it -- now I have to figure out how to set up the ins and outs and the buses and the hardware which is another headache. I might actually buy an Avid support ticket to have one of the Avid techies login to my computer and sort this mess out. But before I go there I'd rather wait to see what my new Behringer can bring to the table.

In the meantime --- Reaper continues to be rock solid, and I can use Sibelius rewired. That alone is a joy. I wish all programs were as solid.

ps and I didn't mention the iLok2 crapping out, or so it seemed, but that seems to be a flaky USB front port (after upgrading the iLok manager software on both computers). No lack of excitement here in beautiful Oakland.
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Old 02-16-2015, 06:56 PM   #62
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Thank you for your detailed feedback Innuendo - you are very kind.
Doesn't feel like doing anything special, but glad if that helps anyway.

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Today I made some progress, by downloading and installing ASIO4all which allowed Pro Tools to recognize my EMU USB sound card. Before you get too excited, obviously that doesn't mean there is sound coming out of it -- now I have to figure out how to set up the ins and outs and the buses and the hardware which is another headache. I might actually buy an Avid support ticket to have one of the Avid techies login to my computer and sort this mess out. But before I go there I'd rather wait to see what my new Behringer can bring to the table.
It's not very complicated to set this up, but if you have money to spare with Avid, then I won't stop you ;-)
In any case, ASIO4all is kinda emergency hack to make ASIO software work with a built-in soundcard. For an interface that has its own ASIO drivers, it's better to use them instead. It could be that Windows is somehow hijacking control of your EMU interface, which is why ProTools can't use it. ASIO is a quirky protocol and most low-end interface manufacturers don't put enough effort to produce drivers that comply completely. You can attempt to prevent this potential hijacking by configuring Windows to output whatever it likes through a different soundcard if you have one installed.
To do this, open your Windows Control Panel and make a search of "manage audio devices", then open the similar-named entry. Or just right-click on the little speaker icon in your System Tray and select "Playback Devices". That should bring up a list of all output ports of every audio interface recognized by Windows. If you have any non-EMU entry there, select it and click "Set Default". This will make Windows output everything through that another audio device (assuming you have one). That might free your EMU for ASIO use. Best to restart your computer after that to make sure that the new configuration had been applied. Not necessarily will help, but worth a try.
Reg. Pro Tools setup, I bet youtube search will bring you an easy guide for that.
If you are still having troubles with making your device work with Pro Tools, you can make a portable installation of Reaper on that computer and see if Reaper is able to output sound through your device. Reaper is a better indication since it is easier to set up and generally less picky than Pro Tools.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:00 PM   #63
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BTW I assume you have the latest driver for your EMU installed, right?
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:12 PM   #64
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Thanks again Innuendo.

Yes, I did have the latest available driver for the EMU installed.

But here's the good news: after taking another good look at the Pro Tools session and getting rid of unnecessary buses, auxes and sends, it now works, and I can actually hear something.

Woo hoot.

One baby step at a time.

Thanks man.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:16 PM   #65
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Thumbs up!
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:35 PM   #66
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And the Breakthrough!!!

I hooked up the output from the EMU to the project mix, and hear the PT session through Reaper!

This is awesome --- so much more work ahead but I feel so empowered now!

Thanks again!
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:11 AM   #67
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Not related but as of this morning my near brand new windows 8 laptop died as well - broken hard drive. Man, what is going on here!! LOL
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:16 AM   #68
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Can't help you on that one, besides telling you to remember the laptop and the HDD's brands for the future... Seagate drives are known to be bad for that case. Hitachi was the best brand, but had been bought out by someone else, I think.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:02 AM   #69
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It should still be covered by warranty - got it in August of last year. HP, no idea about the hard drive. I know these things do not last forever (have another HP laptop from 2007 for which I had to replace the hard drive a couple of years ago) but 6 months is a bit ridiculous. I'll contact HP, maybe I can have them upgrade the hard disk to an SSD drive.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:23 AM   #70
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One baby step at a time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncFCdCjBqcE

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Old 02-18-2015, 01:32 AM   #71
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And the Breakthrough!!!

I hooked up the output from the EMU to the project mix, and hear the PT session through Reaper!

This is awesome --- so much more work ahead but I feel so empowered now!

Thanks again!
uhm... your enthusiasm is great but this all seems like some huge effort for something that actually should be fairly simple - isn't this all possible just using Profire's DSP mixer? What am I missing?
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:38 AM   #72
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Not related but as of this morning my near brand new windows 8 laptop died as well - broken hard drive. Man, what is going on here!! LOL
Bummer!
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:12 AM   #73
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uhm... your enthusiasm is great but this all seems like some huge effort for something that actually should be fairly simple - isn't this all possible just using Profire's DSP mixer? What am I missing?
Sure, if only it would work ... but I still haven't been able to figure out the faulty driver problem or whatever causes the issue with the DSP not showing up (despite several uninstalls and clean installs). So right now it's just a dead weight sitting in my rack.

On a positive note, the laptop has miraculously come back to life.
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:26 AM   #74
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....
On a positive note, the laptop has miraculously come back to life.
Back up everything on that hard drive NOW!
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:31 AM   #75
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Back up everything on that hard drive NOW!
LOL - already did. Thanks anyway.
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:39 PM   #76
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Sure, if only it would work ... but I still haven't been able to figure out the faulty driver problem or whatever causes the issue with the DSP not showing up (despite several uninstalls and clean installs). So right now it's just a dead weight sitting in my rack.
But I thought the problem was just on one machine?





Good to hear your laptop is working again!
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:42 PM   #77
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But I thought the problem was just on one machine?





Good to hear your laptop is working again!
Yes, well, it's a little confusing, and that's my mistake -- one my 'regular' laptops for emails etc decided to take a little break as well. No big deal as I have another regular laptop as well. You know what they say about when it rains ...
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:50 AM   #78
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It gets progressively confusing...


it seems you GAS concentrates on computers and audio-interfaces.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:06 AM   #79
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It gets progressively confusing...


it seems you GAS concentrates on computers and audio-interfaces.
Don't worry, it's all part of a Big Plan I have been planning for some time.

And today is going to be especially exciting, as I am expecting my new German girlfriend ...
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:15 AM   #80
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Sounds good - just keep in mind that Germans have a tendency to be somewhat kinky, so don't treat her too christianly...

(but you're Dutch, so actually there's probably no need to tell you anyway )
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