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Old 12-07-2007, 01:38 AM   #1
Julio
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Default Issues with East West PLAY library (getting there)

Hi there.

I couldn’t find anything about this problem already posted anywhere, so thought I should ask about it here (aka the Friendly Forum), as well as contacting East West customer support.

I recently installed the EWQL (EastWest / Quantum Leap) virtual instrument library called Ministry of Rock, powered by their PLAY interface (which I installed at the same time).

So I fired up REAPER, created a new project, added a track and then loaded the PLAY plugin, to be greeted with the following message: “No default product found. Play could not find a default library to start with, please check your installation”: to clarify this a little, PLAY is the common interface that a number of other EWQL libraries also use, such as Gypsy and Voices of Passion.

The interface window remained mostly blank, with a small message reading “Some of the Play components are missing. Please check your installation.”

I promptly deleted that instance of the plugin and tried again. This time, there was no error message, but no GUI window either, until I forced the window to redraw, and there it was in all its glory. Loading instruments and effects and so on was fine and behaved as expected at this point, and additional instances on other tracks also worked without a hitch (apart from minor redraw bugs).

Then the next problem reared its ugly head: loading a saved project with any of these plugins would bring up the loading bar and go through the motions of setting up the right instruments, but these instruments were dead on arrival. MIDI data (via live keyboard input or from MIDI tracks) was making it partway through the chain (the virtual ‘keys’ were being depressed in the plugin UI), but there were no other signs of life, while the memory meter was stuck on 0 bytes (despite the previous loading bar animation). In the earlier, ‘working’ instances, this memory value was displayed correctly as non-zero (e.g. 8MB).

For comparison purposes, I tested it in Cubase SX3.1.1 and Tracktion 3, and everything seemed to work fine there. However, Tracktion 2 had a worse time than REAPER, in that it wouldn’t load the plugin at all (getting stuck repeatedly at that dreaded missing components stage). Could this be a peculiarity of either REAPER or PLAY with regard to VST (non-)standards, past or current?

In case it’s of any relevance, my system is running Windows XP SP2 (32-bit) and consists of an AMD64 Opteron 185, 3GB RAM, GeForce 6600GT, with separate physical hard drives for system, samples, audio etc. I also tried it out on my Vista Ultimate 64 bit installation (PLAY is apparently a 64-bit application), but it wouldn’t even show up on any menus.

Any suggestions/thoughts/workaround-hacks-in-the-meantime? I would love to get it integrated properly with REAPER: having to use another DAW (or in standalone mode) would sag my jowls something chronic.

Last edited by Julio; 08-25-2008 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Updated information
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:23 PM   #2
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Hi Julio,

it looks as if you have issues with your license. Go to www.ilio.com, log in and confirm that your PLAY license is valid and readeable on the iLok key.

If not then download the latest version of the registration software and register again. It also would be good if you update the PLAY version and the instrument file of your Play library. You will find the download link in your documentation.

That being said I don't have problems with REAPER and PLAY so far apart from a minor refresh/gui bug that I will post seperately.

Best
Hannes
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default GUI refresh with EASTWEST PLAY

OK, so here it goes.

When I insert PLAY as an effect into a track and open the GUI I will only see small parts of it (the ones that are refreshed regularly like CPU % and voices). The rest will stay invisible until I hunt and peck around finding the "browser/player" knob which does a complete GUI refresh.

I posted it over there in the EASTWEST forum but maybe here also something can be done about the refresh order of new windows.

Cheers
Hannes
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #4
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Hi Julio,

it looks as if you have issues with your license. Go to www.ilio.com, log in and confirm that your PLAY license is valid and readeable on the iLok key.

If not then download the latest version of the registration software and register again. It also would be good if you update the PLAY version and the instrument file of your Play library. You will find the download link in your documentation.

That being said I don't have problems with REAPER and PLAY so far apart from a minor refresh/gui bug that I will post seperately.

Best
Hannes
Hello Hannes, and thanks so much for your replies.

I just checked, and my iLok licence is definitely valid (did you mean www.ilok.com?). And I have updated PLAY and the library to the latest versions … I think; this process is certainly more confusing and convoluted than it needs to be.

Still having no joy with the preset loading in REAPs, but I’m saving the settings out using favourites and then ‘replacing’ them every time I reload the session.

If stumbling around in the virtual dark is a problem for you, dragging the window off-screen and then back on should trigger a redraw and make everything visible. You may well be aware of this, but I thought I should mention it just in case.

Without wishing to sound pessimistic, I wouldn’t exactly hold my breath for a respond from EW, since REAPER isn’t officially supported (a policy they will no doubt have to review in the coming months/years): my incompatibility post has been sitting there in solitarity confinement for many weeks with not so much as a whiff of a reply.

Let’s hope this problem is resolved soon.

Kind regards, and happy REAPing,

Julio
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:08 AM   #5
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Hi Julio,

I tried again and have been running into similar issues like you. But I think I have found a workaround that may help us both.

I use energyXT as a wrapper, with other words I load an instance of energyXT into the reaper track. In that I load PLAY and open instruments in it.

No GUI problems, no problem with saving and reopening the whole REAPER session. Works here with energyXTE 1.4 and energyXT2.

One thing to consider with this solution is the distribution on the cores. There are several possibilities. Will post an extra message about this.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:59 AM   #6
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OK, so both energyXT versions get unstable with PLAY around 1 GB of samples loaded into RAM. So for bigger projects forgest it, sorry. :-)

For smaller arrangements it is nice.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:43 PM   #7
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Thanks for your investigation, Hannes, it is much appreciated.

Oh, I have heard the legend of the eXT wrapper: I’ll definitely look into this workaround (or workinside, I suppose).

As for the approximate 1GB ‘limit’, is that per instance of eXT/PLAY or in total? Either way, it shouldn’t affect me too much, since I only use it to ice the aural cake at the moment (although if I do get it working better, that could well change).

Wishing you a pleasant winter of REAPing, wrapped up nice and warm. Vielen Dank,

Julio
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:04 AM   #8
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Success! After an energeticXT day, I now have presets loading happily with the project, ready to go immediately: that must be what workflow feels like…

Thank you so much for the suggestion, Hannes.
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:43 PM   #9
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Default east west woes

hi,

i was reading your post and i was wondering if you could help me with this issue

i have the gypsy east west software, its in dongle heaven and works great in its stand alone (play)

i also cant get it to work in reaper, i have energy xt but i can't figure out how to get play to work in it. i've searched around but havent found anything

i truly apprecate any help you can offer with this
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Old 01-21-2008, 06:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danforthe View Post
hi,

i was reading your post and i was wondering if you could help me with this issue

i have the gypsy east west software, its in dongle heaven and works great in its stand alone (play)

i also cant get it to work in reaper, i have energy xt but i can't figure out how to get play to work in it. i've searched around but havent found anything

i truly apprecate any help you can offer with this
Hello Danforthe.

What I do is this:

1. Fire up an instance of EnergyXT VSTi on a track.
2. Within this instance, go to File-Setup, then Folders, and make sure that Plugins includes a path to where the Play VSTi is installed.
3. Close that. Then, in the main window, expand the Plugins list on the left (with the arrows), find the Play VSTi (you may have to scroll a bit), and drag that into the open area on the right. You may not see anything happening while dragging, but it should create a box and make some in and out connections.
4. Double click on the newly-created Play box (this can be a bit iffy, but should work after an attempt or two), load up your instruments as usual, and then you’ll be good to go.

Hope that helps.

Julio
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:06 PM   #11
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Default almost there

thanks for the speedy response!

i'm hoping that i'm still just doing something wrong. it seems like my version of xt is somehow different as i do not have a file option... but it does let me right clik in the open space on the right.

once i right clik i have some options, one of which is to select the play vst. when i select it, an icon appears in the right portion. this icon is connected to the master in and master out via yellow and blue lines.

when i double clik the play vst i get the following:
-
Exception EAccessViolation in module QtCore4.dll at 000B9026.
Access violation at address 67B9026 in module 'QtCore4.dll'. Read of address 00000001.
-

when i select the ok box or close the error message a tiny window of confused title bars with the words play_vst written on them appears.

this is an improvement sort of because when i tried this before the email, reaper would just crash after i closed the error message ;]

however this possibly confused window does give a file option in which i can open/save fxb's or fxp's

this is such a drag, i truly appreciate your help though
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danforthe View Post
thanks for the speedy response!

i'm hoping that i'm still just doing something wrong. it seems like my version of xt is somehow different as i do not have a file option...
Oh, do you know which version you have? I’ll look into it and see what we can come up with to solve your problem.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:39 PM   #13
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I’ve been using version 2. I just installed the demo of 1.4 for comparative purposes…

It asked me for a VST path; I then went to the right folder, and ‘add’ed it.

Does it have a Browser button? After I set that up, I went to Browser->My Plugins->VST and then scrolled to find it. Then dragged it across into the main window as before, connecting up via those blue and yellow lines you mentioned.

Double-clicking worked fine for me, bringing up the Ministry of Rock interface as usual.

Maybe it’s worth trying to reinstall the EnergyXT plugin? Or tweaking REAPER’s VST plugin settings? Or this could be a Gypsy-specific problem.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:54 PM   #14
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Default darn gypsies

i have xt 1.4 from sept 2006, i deleted the old .dll; re-downloaded it from the site and then reinstalled it to the my plug folder.

i do have the browse option and was able to drag and drop from there, same symptom though (quirky mini window).

i'm gonna play around with it a little more to see what i can find out.

dude i really appreciate all your help with this. i probably wont post anymore tonight, but you can bet i'll be trying to resolve this. i'll post any findings i have just incase they are relevant.

by the way the sounds on this program are awesome, i'm planning on getting ministry and fab this year, but that will depend on how gypsie works out with reaper...

peace
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danforthe View Post
i have xt 1.4 from sept 2006, i deleted the old .dll; re-downloaded it from the site and then reinstalled it to the my plug folder.

i do have the browse option and was able to drag and drop from there, same symptom though (quirky mini window).

i'm gonna play around with it a little more to see what i can find out.

dude i really appreciate all your help with this. i probably wont post anymore tonight, but you can bet i'll be trying to resolve this. i'll post any findings i have just incase they are relevant.

by the way the sounds on this program are awesome, i'm planning on getting ministry and fab this year, but that will depend on how gypsie works out with reaper...

peace
No worries, I hope you find the silver bullet for this.

I do love the sounds in MoR, and am thinking about getting Gypsy too: I’ll let you know how my experience compares to yours.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:34 PM   #16
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Default better... but not really

well, i've made progress. i found that east west's gypsy gets pissed off if its vst .dll is loaded anywhere other then the location suggested by default during installation. imho, this is common for software that doesn't take the time to ensure that thier product can play nice with others.

i think the trouble stems from the dongle factor, but i'm a little biased about that to begin with.

to support this finding: the play_vst.dll also failed to load in cubase when opened from a location other then the default.

so the trouble of getting the play vst to load into reaper without it crashing reaper is solved. I feel that this trouble can't be reapers fault cause i have soooo many vst/vsti's that do not crash reaper, some that were loaded before the initial play_vst attempt, some that were loaded afterwards. Also, cubase would produce the same results.

now i have a new trouble...

in its stand alone, play sounds brilliant. when used as a vsti, audible pops are produced along with the desired sound. these pops sound alot like what the old ipods used to do to shotty mp3s.

i don't think its a trouble with the computers capabilities, it has plenty o' ram and two strong processors. plus it dosen't happen in the stand alone. i've tried tweaking settings in play and found no resolve. i tried tweaking settings in reaper, from the min max mem setting to the vst page to different midi driver selections. however the trouble remains.

also, with a reaper track containing the play vst only, no sound is produced (even when its armed and monitored). only when i routed an empty track to the play vst and set it for arm/ monitor, the vst would produce the desired sound along with audible pops.

further, while i can sometimes get a play vst to load into xt, if i try and do anything in the fx add remove window once play is in xt, reaper crashes. again, i do not feel this is in any way the fault of reaper or energy xt as these two function as specified when the play vst has not been introduced.

........

so i'm gonna just manipulate play via an old external sequencer, and port the audio from play into reaper. it will be a pain in the ass.

East West will without a doubt lose me as a customer if i cannot manipulate thier so called 'vst' within reaper. i don't care how cherry the sounds are, its useless unless i can play it in the environment of my choice.

there are hundreds of free vst's available that have absolutely no trouble working in different environments. more is that they do so seamlessly. I think the trouble in play stems from the dongle factor.

notice that when reaper tries to load presets in play it gets to the almost there point and then fails? there is also a pause when loading sounds in the stand alone of play at that same exact moment. i think this is one of the many times that play consults its dongle.

asking reaper to support the dongle would, imho, defeat the purpose of and beauty of reaper.

hopefully i'm just doing something wrong, and i'll be able to use play in reaper. The sounds are amazing!! plus I haven't even begun to chip into the articulation. So I will certainly keep tweaking to resolve this, and if i find a fix it will be posted.

cheers
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:51 PM   #17
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Default woohoo!!

i think i've got the solution! found it on a forum post from 2006 on some other site. Here goes:

Download / install "midi yoke"

open reaper

ensure rearoute is available

cntrl+p -> midi devices or whatever -> enable a midi yoke output

open play

in the settings portion, enable the midi yoke input that corresponds to your midi yoke output in reaper.
ie midi yoke output 1 goes to midi yoke input one.

play and record some midi in reaper, it will go to whatever instrument corresponds in play. note that you can send the full range of midi channels on one yoke port.

then, in play, select rearoute as the output for an instrument and, in reaper, create a track that gets its source from the corresponding rearoute.

Boom!! channelized audio from play to multiple tracks in reaper.

okay, that said i've misplaced my rearoutes so i havent had a chance to verify that play will accept the rearoutes as outputs. still workin on that one...

but i have succesfully done the midi yoke portion, so i'll post one to say how the rearoute turns out once i get that workin.

peace
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:19 PM   #18
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Default got it!

okay, from reaper to midi yoke to play to rearoute to reaper and all troubles are solved, channelized and everything... i had to tweak a few things to get it going (in both play and reaper) but i got it going.

peace
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Old 01-30-2008, 01:45 AM   #19
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Oh that’s great news. Congratulations!

As you may have seen, there’s a new Play update out: I’m not sure whether or not it’ll take care of some of the bugs you’ve been experiencing (my changelog doesn’t note the difference between versions .043 and .046).

For me, it’s (half)-working as before through energyXT: no joy with full REAPER integration, but response does seem to be rather less sluggish with the effects going. Maybe one of these days it’ll eventually be a contender for the teamwork award…

Wishing you many happy hours in the Playground.
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Old 01-30-2008, 03:05 PM   #20
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Thanks! I've been enjoying this thing ever since i got it working. The audio is great, especially the violin. The trumbone is also exceptional. Definitely welcome addition to the ol' audio playground.

As far as the [reaper-yoke-play-rearoute-reaper] integration method is concerned.. I prefer using seperate wet & dry tracks for mixing, so the added functionality of having each Play instrument in its own reaper track is a serious plus for me. Whats more is that this routing experience has opened up a few new "lanes" in my process.

Ofcourse... Everynow and again the audio will hang and make an electronic noise. I'm not sure if this is an i/o problem or a denormalization problem or something else. I've been monitoring the cpu usage and it is well within tolerance (less then 10%), and memory doesnt seem too bothered either. I'm gonna try unchecking the harddrive stream option to see if that remedies the trouble. Maybe this new patch will squash that bug ;]

But other then that, fantastic. To be able to have this kind of quality for this kind of price, I can't complain.

Peace Enjoy
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:05 PM   #21
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Alrighty, the latest play update did the trick for me!
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:19 PM   #22
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Default Great news

Awesome stuff!

Enjoy your new-improved experience.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:33 AM   #23
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Default Further updates

Now that version 2.104 has arrived, I’m having no more problems with loading instruments at session startup. Thank you for fixing this!

The vanishing GUI issue is still there, however, but that’s easily taken care of with some light refreshments.
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:28 AM   #24
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Okay, great news! The GUI (in Play version 1.0.080, July 30th) is now showing up right away. This applies to both the x86 and the x64 versions.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:34 AM   #25
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I just wanted to post this because it took an hour of my life to figure out. I have never had such a time installing a program.

I kept trying to figure out where the plugin for PLAY was and for some reason it was in Program Files/Common files (doesn't make sense to me), so if you had similar trouble trying to find the PLAY VST plugin for Reaper then search for play_VST.dll and then direct REAPER to it (or throw the .dll in with your other plugins).

Last edited by dduckett; 08-12-2008 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:10 PM   #26
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After reading the entire thread, I realized that my previous post was unnecessary as this problem was addressed. Anyhow, I am having the vanishing GUI issue whenever I exit the FX window to go to Reaper and then try to return to the PLAY plugin. It simply doesn't pull up. The only way to see anything is to maximize the window and minimize it again. I have 1.0.080 PLAY instruments update and it hasn't fixed the problem (this is for EWQLSO Gold XP).
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dduckett View Post
After reading the entire thread, I realized that my previous post was unnecessary as this problem was addressed. Anyhow, I am having the vanishing GUI issue whenever I exit the FX window to go to Reaper and then try to return to the PLAY plugin. It simply doesn't pull up. The only way to see anything is to maximize the window and minimize it again. I have 1.0.080 PLAY instruments update and it hasn't fixed the problem (this is for EWQLSO Gold XP).
Hello. It has been working on and off for me since I last posted. I guess there’s still something under the hood that needs fixing. Let’s hope they get that ironed out in 1.0.081.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:35 PM   #28
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With EWQL Symphonic Orchestra and PLAY 1.0.083, the vanishing GUI issue is still there, just like with 1.0.080. I'm not sure what Julio meant earlier in this thread that the issue were fixed..

PLAY GUI works fine, as long as you don't load any instrument patches. But right after loading, it starts crapping out.

I hope they (EW) don't think Reaper is too small/cheap/unknown name to pay some attention and fix this issue.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:30 PM   #29
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Yeah, sorry about that. Initially it looks okay, until you start giving it things to do (especially preset loading), or firing up existing sessions. It’s getting there slowly, though. Downloading .083 now…

The technical support folks at East West assured me that they’re looking into the problem of REAPER-friendliness. That’s a smart move (if anything comes of it); Mr Reaps is becoming an increasingly important player every day.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
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The technical support folks at East West assured me that they’re looking into the problem of REAPER-friendliness. That’s a smart move (if anything comes of it); Mr Reaps is becoming an increasingly important player every day.
That is good news. I was already hopeful as .083 was supposed to fix some gui issues with samplitude, but apparently it didn't fix reaper.
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Old 08-17-2008, 03:35 PM   #31
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Unfortunately, it seems as though the updates are making REAPER even more incompatible with EWQLSO Play edition. Look at this screenshot, it doesn't even make sense!

http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img....jpg&srv=img27

I installed the upgrade and then when I went to install the PACE drivers, it would only let me modify, repair, or uninstall them. I tried to modify but ran into an error with two of them. Anyone else having similar problems?
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:22 PM   #32
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Yes, that’s the classic incompatible PACE driver error.

My system is bizarre too, in that I can no longer install any of those drivers: every time I go to install, it informs me that the process was interrupted. Luckily, it all seems to work (in x64 anyway) aside from that: are you on 32 bit and/or 64 bit?

Have you tried to uninstall and then reinstall with the new ones? Also, which of the PACE installers are you running?

In any event, I would suggest contacting EW tech support: do you have any other DAW hosts installed? I imagine that the problem should be the same on any of those, if it’s PACE-related. They may have some suggestions to help you out.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:17 AM   #33
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I'm on 32 bit, I haven't tried a complete uninstall and reinstall of the pace drivers because I had such a time getting them to work to begin with, this program sounds great standalone, but getting it to work as a plugin has been a nightmare. I did manage to get the pace drivers to install by choosing the repair option and all 3 installed successfully, but it hasn't fixed the error message that has been popping up.

I went ahead and contacted EastWest support with the problem and am waiting to hear from them. Reaper is my only DAW host and I love it dearly (plus after buying the EastWest play edition upgrade, my bank is broke) so I don't know where else I could test it as a plugin. I am trying to see if there is some way I can roll back to Play edition 1.0.80 and deal with the vanishing GUI because that's way better than not being able to use the plugin at all. I'm hoping I don't have to go through a day's worth of installation.

I am glad I'm not the only one trying to use PLAY with Reaper. I hope EastWest looks into the matter.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:39 PM   #34
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Well, I do hope they fix it. It seems to be nothing more than a redraw error of some kind. I just got EWQL MOR, and actually reported the bug, too http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...842#post227842. Now I see it's not just my problem.

Last edited by Falgor; 09-06-2008 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:37 AM   #35
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The guys @ eastwest say it's Reaper's end that needs to be fixed.
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/s...ad.php?t=15579
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:58 AM   #36
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I just noticed, that if I have no instruments loaded in the PLAY vsti plugin, it draws the UI just fine. However, if I load an instrument, it starts getting those draw errors... Strange.
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Old 10-03-2008, 01:46 AM   #37
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Well, I reported the issue to east west support as a "ticket" and I got a response that they will be working on the redraw issue for the next play update , even though Reaper isn't officially supported.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:49 AM   #38
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Hey guies ! I got copy of EWQL siver edition and I loaded it from reaper and played with 16 channels I never came across such problem. I dont need energy xt wrapper to paly any kind of VSTI.

I want aslo to ask that weather Energyxt wrapper loads reason as a VSTI?
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:12 AM   #39
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Nimkar, can you tell us what kinda computer you have?

Edit: it seems that Samplitude also had this problem, but it was fixed in the latest Play update. So I guess next will be Reaper, hopefully !

Last edited by Falgor; 10-14-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:45 AM   #40
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hello, I too got issue with play and Reaper, I use windows 7 X64 and midi yoke don't work at all on it. I don't know what to do.
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