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Old 08-12-2015, 08:11 AM   #1
Irvin
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Default Reaper Installer Hangs Like Forever

I know it has been documented before, but I'd like to draw attention to it once again:

The 64bit installer takes about 10-15 minutes (yes!) to start working (after double-click) on windows 10. Had the same behavior on windows 7. Pretty weird and annoying.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:12 AM   #2
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Windows Defender is to blame.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:18 AM   #3
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Yep- Windows Defender to the rescue! NOT.

I've been dealing with this one for some time, too. Used to be if I rebooted just prior to installation (and not start Reaper) it would run pretty quick. Not anymore I fear.

It's ok. Just taking a deep breath and getting another cup of coffee while I wait for the installer.......breathe.......breathe.........
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:19 AM   #4
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Right click on the installer file and "Run as administrator", works here to circumvent the long wait...
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
Right click on the installer file and "Run as administrator", works here to circumvent the long wait...
Thanks. Tried it - it does not work for me, unfortunately.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Windows Defender is to blame.
I'm not so sure, to be honest. No other installer hangs...
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
I'm not so sure, to be honest. No other installer hangs...

Trust me, it's Windows Defender. Disable it and try it for yourself.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:28 AM   #8
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I had that problem also.

I rebooted and it worked as usual except for the VT3 search.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Trust me, it's Windows Defender. Disable it and try it for yourself.
I have not doubt it has to do with Windows Defender. That does not mean it's windows defender's fault, though.

We know that their interaction causes the problem, but we don't know who is at fault here. Very weird because no other installers hang like that. It could be faulty coding in Reaper or a bug (or something else) in Windows Defender.

In any case, I'd like to see the Reaper developers working on this issue. The good news is, once installed, Reaper is nearly flawless, as always. Best value for a DAW.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:31 AM   #10
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Run as admin worked for me too.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
I have not doubt it has to do with Windows Defender. That does not mean it's windows defender's fault, though.

We know that their interaction causes the problem, but we don't know who is at fault here. Very weird because no other installers hang like that. It could be faulty coding in Reaper or a bug (or something else) in Windows Defender.

In any case, I'd like to see the Reaper developers working on this issue. The good news is, once installed, Reaper is nearly flawless, as always. Best value for a DAW.
Usually within a short time Windows Defender gets to recognize our installers and then will operate more quickly.

I've investigated this a bit, can't come up with much, other than perhaps us detuning the compression used by our installers (increasing their size by 30-40%) would help. I suppose we could do this.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:34 AM   #12
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Admin did not work for me. Only reboot.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:35 AM   #13
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Make sure it is not an internet zone flag causing the block. Right-Click > properties > unblock if the unblock button is there. FYI that is a check that happens at the time of download and it sets the flag accordingly.
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Old 08-12-2015, 08:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Usually within a short time Windows Defender gets to recognize our installers and then will operate more quickly.

I've investigated this a bit, can't come up with much, other than perhaps us detuning the compression used by our installers (increasing their size by 30-40%) would help. I suppose we could do this.
Sounds like a good plan. Thanks!
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:38 AM   #15
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Default Version 5.01 misses the biggest bug....

The Windows installer takes about 10-15 minutes to start (sometimes more). The general assumption is that very heavy compression of the executable is responsible for the bizarre behavior.

Well, it's time for Cockos to stop pretending Reaper is a 10-12 mb program and do things right. Make it 100 or whatever size allows for a normal install routine. It's a total pain in the ass to deal with this s**t every time a new version or update comes out.

It's bad enough we have to deal with the ugliest default interface in the business....
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:59 AM   #16
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That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.

First (theoretical answer): you cannot decide to compress beyond a certain point, and hide as much as you want in 10 MB.

Second (experimental answer): I downloaded and installed it this morning before going to work while drinking my coffee. It took me less than 1 minute.

Seems that the problem is on your side.

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Old 08-27-2015, 05:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
The Windows installer takes about 10-15 minutes to start (sometimes more).
That's horrible. Which version of Windows? I'm getting no probs with XP or 8 or 8.1.

If it's 10 that's just given me another reason to avoid it ....
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:03 AM   #18
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sounds like a problem with the "msi"service or your userprofile. you can try this: log in to a other administrator account (if you dont have one, create one) and try it there - if the install works without problems with the other account your Windowsprofile is broken.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:09 AM   #19
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To be clear, this issue affects some systems on all OSes from Windows 7 to Windows 10, with Windows Defender and/or Microsoft Security Essentials. A google search reveals that it also affects many decent-sized executable installers (though perhaps MSI installers are not affected).

We did a lot of experimentation during the 5.01 cycle with the installers to see if we could reduce this: improving the signing used (to use sha256 hashes and a newer signing tool), using bzip2 compression instead of LZMA, etc. We haven't been able to eliminate the problem. I will look at what it would take to use an MSI installer instead, however I am hesitant to do this, because the user experience for users who do not have this issue would certainly be degraded, and also I feel this is a bug that Microsoft really needs to address!

Workarounds:

1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.

2) Try right clicking on the installer, selecting properties, then choosing "Unblock" near the bottom of the properties page. Hit OK, then run the installer.

3) If you ran the installer and it hangs, download it again while you wait and run the new copy. It will run instantly.

There are others, too.

Quote:
That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.
After experimentation, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the compression.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
It's bad enough we have to deal with the ugliest default interface in the business....
BTW, mixing this in with this thread is inappropriate.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

Workarounds:

1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.
That's handy to know!

And a tip for Win 7 users, not sure about later versions, shift+right click on any folder brings up a menu and you will see "Open Command Window Here".
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franzwam View Post
That's weird and has most certainly little to do with the compression of the executable.

Seems that the problem is on your side.

franzwam
Justin Frankler himself, Reaper's developer, is the one who spoused the theory. I'd imagine he is right.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
BTW, mixing this in with this thread is inappropriate.
Fair enough - my apologies for that.

I was just pissed by having to deal with 15 minutes of wait on something that is clearly a problem with Repaer. Literally thousands of other software installers run without a hitch.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:03 AM   #24
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He said "Frankler"!
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
To be clear, this issue affects some systems on all OSes from Windows 7 to Windows 10, with Windows Defender and/or Microsoft Security Essentials. A google search reveals that it also affects many decent-sized executable installers (though perhaps MSI installers are not affected).

We did a lot of experimentation during the 5.01 cycle with the installers to see if we could reduce this: improving the signing used (to use sha256 hashes and a newer signing tool), using bzip2 compression instead of LZMA, etc. We haven't been able to eliminate the problem. I will look at what it would take to use an MSI installer instead, however I am hesitant to do this, because the user experience for users who do not have this issue would certainly be degraded, and also I feel this is a bug that Microsoft really needs to address!

Workarounds:

1) If you can, open a command prompt and execute the installer from there. This will work 100% of the time, instantly.

2) Try right clicking on the installer, selecting properties, then choosing "Unblock" near the bottom of the properties page. Hit OK, then run the installer.

3) If you ran the installer and it hangs, download it again while you wait and run the new copy. It will run instantly.

There are others, too.



After experimentation, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the compression.
Thank you for the suggestions! That said, I'd expect Reaper not to require all these workarounds.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:05 AM   #26
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What I do to overcome the long wait...

Right click on downloaded file and "run as administrator"

Opens and runs immediately.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:06 AM   #27
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Had the same problem since migrating to Windows 7 and never associated it with security essentials. Pretty decent excuse to change the antivirus to something better, as Microsoft ones have pretty awful detection rates.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:09 AM   #28
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For me works right click, "run as administrator".
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:37 AM   #29
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Never, EVER had this problem from Win 7, thru 8, 8.1 Pro, now to Win 10 Pro. Clearly others have had similar issues.

The tone of OP's post could be more of a genuine question first, and not attacking Reaper and its capable devs for individual system issues.

General troubleshooting and sharing of system configs will sort this and little doubt it will be resolved. I run three desktop systems, all different configs, and none have the problems OP describes.

BTW .... often use 'Run as administrator' for some things, but never had to for Reaper and very quick install or update.

Last edited by sostenuto; 08-27-2015 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:40 AM   #30
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I would not change the installer. It is super quick and easy. I don't have any issues installing/upgrading in seconds.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:43 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
What I do to overcome the long wait...

Right click on downloaded file and "run as administrator"

Opens and runs immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasajeromoronmoreno View Post
For me works right click, "run as administrator".
It will/should force admin by default just by clicking on it unless it is a portable install.

Otherwise, I'd really like the OP to right-click > properties and see if the unblock button is there. It would be great to confirm this and most helpful to the devs.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:45 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
That said, I'd expect Reaper not to require all these workarounds.
It's a Microsoft problem, not Reaper. Some other installers (Inno) have issues on the same systems that have problems with NSIS, too.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:48 AM   #33
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Sure would be nice to know if the unblock button was visible in the file's properties, just sayin'... Might save you guys lots of grief and arguing.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:52 AM   #34
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I'd definitely say something is wrong on your computer. 5.01 installed for me as fast as I could click it. Reaper upgrades are always insanely bizarrely fast for me.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:57 AM   #35
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Well ..... maybe a simplistic way to separate MS/in & Reaper, but not getting to the OP's problem. My three (3) Win desktops were all updated to Win 8 with (3) legitimate disks from Staples (USA) and all three have behaved differently in subtle ways. All updated to Win 10 Pro day of release.

Likely the issue is different mother boards and bios. Two are Asus (Intel i5), and one Intel (i7). all 8 GB, all SSD. The behaviors are subtle but evident.

Reaper must deal with these incredible hardware variations, plus so many OS choices .... for sure. Just need a bit more understanding from Users when their system has issues?
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin View Post
Justin Frankler himself, Reaper's developer, is the one who spoused the theory. I'd imagine he is right.
Don't worry I also think (and hope! ^^) he knows the deal 'a bit' better than both of us do, but I don't see where our answers are incompatible.
He just confirmed that - contrary to what you said - compression is certainly not the cause to your trouble.

Additionally, the problem is still on your side, since a lot of people (majority ?) do not face the problem.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:35 AM   #37
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5.01 installed virtually instantly for me with Win 7 64bit.

Sadly Channel aftertouch (sometimes known as channel pressure) still does not work in this .01 update with VST3i (note: it does work with VST3i in Sonar Artist). I have reported this elsewhere on the forum.

At least POLY aftertouch is working.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:35 AM   #38
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I had MSE on Win7 laptop and had no any installer problem. With Win7 PC is the same situation.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:06 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekat View Post
Had the same problem since migrating to Windows 7 and never associated it with security essentials. Pretty decent excuse to change the antivirus to something better, as Microsoft ones have pretty awful detection rates.
Indeed!

I also never had any problem updating. It is always very, very fast. All it takes is blinking with my eyes and it's done!
But what strikes me most of all is that Justin already explained to the OP, when he complained his update to v5 to last 10-15 minutes, that MS Defender was the cause of this problem. (see post 12 August 2015: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=164835
No I wonder, will we see a new post from OP when updating to v5.02? ;-)
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:55 AM   #40
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Irvin, has Microsoft paid Justin to fix Window OS bugs??
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