Old 02-03-2011, 04:40 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
or you could make the argument that linux users have come to expect quality software for free and are unlikely to register.
or that those who produce or record music on PCs are most likely to choose Linux over Windows or OSX if they had a stable, feature-rich DAW and instruments and effects, given that the price is the same.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:21 AM   #42
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or you could make the argument that linux users have come to expect quality software for free and are unlikely to register.
Yes, that is also a good point. How about this then: Keep the Windows version as it is, include a demo limitation in the Linux version, and raise the price of the Mac version by 500%
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:45 AM   #43
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Linux is not just for geeks anymore.
Ah, man, I have been hearing that for years. Still, no matter which distro I install on any of my desktops and laptops, none have ever correctly configured something as simple as the on-board audio. And how many dedicated audio interfaces come with a Linux driver?

Now that Microsoft has finally managed to ship a version of Windows that is both performant and stable, there are better ways to spend one's time than screaming for Linux. Not, that is, for a vanilla distro - one with a real-time kernel might actually tempt me to think about it again.

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or you could make the argument that linux users have come to expect quality software for free and are unlikely to register.
Not true at all. Remember that most serious Linux users are not your regular desktop users (are there any?), but professionals operating servers. My customers have no problems paying even for extremely enpensive software (Oracle, SAP, ...) in spite of the fact that it is run on Linux machines.

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Old 02-03-2011, 07:47 AM   #44
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I wasn't being serious with that comment - just rebutting the argument that Mac users don't trust cheap software with a comment that was equally as silly. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 02-05-2011, 11:17 AM   #45
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Remember that most serious Linux users are not your regular desktop users (are there any?), but professionals operating servers.
Actually most "serious" Linux user I know (myself included) are using Linux exclusively on the desktop, because it is just easier to install and use then Windows. Let me tell you why:

On Windows:
When installing the OS I need to tell it on which drive/partition, but I cannot partition the drive during installation, which means I have to do that before (by either first installing Windows on the main drive and do the paritioning and then reinstall, or by using a Linux Live CD).
Then, after everything is installed and after I registered my version, I have to start installing drivers for my hardware manually (MANUALLY!!!). After that, when I have to install some software, I have to go to the website of each software product and download and install it. If those programmes now have newer versions, then they either bother me all with their own "new version" check or I have to check it for each of the programmes my own and again download and install it manually.
I also need to install some sort of virus scanner or malware protection, because otherwise my system will be infected sooner or later. This scanner will run the whole time using RAM and CPU (and of course interferes with everything I do by asking me if I really want to download this and that and whatever). The same goes for a personal firewall.
So using my OS means I have to deal with a lot of thing the whole time manually.

On Linux:
I install the OS, during this I can partition my disk if I want. After installation the hardware just works, because drivers are in the kernel. If I want new software, I go to one central place, namely my package manager and install them from there once. They will automatically receive updates, if I update my system with a single command. Virus scanners and the like are of course unnecessary. My system resources are free for the software I want to run and I don't have to deal with all those things all the time.

Anyway, this is not a rant or anything like that, but my experience. I personally just cannot see the advantage some people see in using Windows.

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Old 02-05-2011, 11:57 AM   #46
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Fladd, Install drivers manually? What? What drivers would that be and what Windows version are you talking about?

Windows Vista (yes VISTA!) running Avast virus protection still wins over Ubuntu in my own performance tests - testing Chrome, Firefox and Opera:
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/benchmarks/

And about the ubdates... Let me quote myself from another test:

"People often say Windows has to be updated and restarted all the time. Well, I was away for a week now and when I came back, there were 26 new updates for Ubuntu and the system had to be restarted. For Vista there were 0 new updates. Last time Vista was updated was actually 21 days ago. (But I don’t use Windows Defender which is frequently updated – but no reason for a system restart of course). Avast is also updated automatically every day. When I came back, it updated once.

Ubuntu does not only update the system in the update manager, it updates all programs you have installed. I’m not sure that is a great idea. Why would you like to update a bunch of programs you never use? On Windows, many programs checks for updates when you are using them."
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:39 PM   #47
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Ubuntu does not only update the system in the update manager, it updates all programs you have installed. I?m not sure that is a great idea. Why would you like to update a bunch of programs you never use? On Windows, many programs checks for updates when you are using them."
That is great IMO.

Plus it only update the programs that come with Ubuntu, which are the basics that a PC should have so it is quite probable to have some use (either that are needed by the system or that have a real big use like open office and media players) and THOSE programs THAT YOU HAVE INSTALLED BY YOURSELF, if you dont use them you can blame yourself or uninstall them as easily.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:07 PM   #48
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Don't go the "Linux vs. Windows" way. They both have their strenghts and weaknesses. But note that there actually isn't any "Linux". That's just the kernel. There are loads of distributions, some are for servers, some for desktops, there is even one for audio/video production.
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:47 PM   #49
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Fladd, Install drivers manually? What? What drivers would that be and what Windows version are you talking about?

Windows Vista (yes VISTA!) running Avast virus protection still wins over Ubuntu in my own performance tests - testing Chrome, Firefox and Opera:
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/benchmarks/

And about the ubdates... Let me quote myself from another test:

"People often say Windows has to be updated and restarted all the time. Well, I was away for a week now and when I came back, there were 26 new updates for Ubuntu and the system had to be restarted. For Vista there were 0 new updates. Last time Vista was updated was actually 21 days ago. (But I don’t use Windows Defender which is frequently updated – but no reason for a system restart of course). Avast is also updated automatically every day. When I came back, it updated once.

Ubuntu does not only update the system in the update manager, it updates all programs you have installed. I’m not sure that is a great idea. Why would you like to update a bunch of programs you never use? On Windows, many programs checks for updates when you are using them."
You are taking the fact that Ubuntu comes with (security) updates quicker than Windows as a point against Ubuntu??? LOL, that is priceless! I mean, what can I possibly answer to this? LOL!

But seriously, I am not evangelizing anyone, if you are fine with Windows, then that is good for you of course. I just don't get it for myself, that's all. Linux is freen, I don't have to care about viruses and I get a proper shell. The only thing that is better on Windows is the hardware support for USB2 audio interfaces (but that of course is due to the manufactures and not to Microsoft).
(Oh and the Windows I had to install drivers for was XP and Vista, and those drivers were Nvidia graphics drivers as well as Intel onboard sound and the Intel chipset).

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Old 02-05-2011, 02:27 PM   #50
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Windows uber alles.
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:29 PM   #51
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You are taking the fact that Ubuntu comes with (security) updates quicker than Windows as a point against Ubuntu??? LOL, that is priceless! I mean, what can I possibly answer to this? LOL!
The number of updates says nothing about how fast problems gets fixed, just that there are many things that needs to be fixed.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #52
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The number of updates says nothing about how fast problems gets fixed, just that there are many things that needs to be fixed.
Classic! I need some popcorn!
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:46 PM   #53
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The number of updates says nothing about how fast problems gets fixed, just that there are many things that needs to be fixed.
Linux is evolving much faster than Windows.
The Linux kernel is open-source meaning anyone knowing programming can improve it.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:12 PM   #54
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The Linux kernel is open-source meaning anyone knowing programming can improve it.
...or break it.
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:53 AM   #55
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Classic! I need some popcorn!
Actually, if you want the latest program versions in Ubuntu, you often have to install them manually. That has happened to me several times.

The only real benefit with Linux in my opinion is the price.

If you like Linux, then that is fine. I think it's a good thing that Linux exists and I think a Linux version of Reaper is a good idea.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:07 AM   #56
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Actually there are good technical reasons why to use Linux for audio related works. Major two are customized kernels (RT, preempt) and the Jack interface routing. And perhaps a third too - not invasive nature of licencing, where there aren't artificial obstacles to just copy a system partition to another machine. (sometimes a dramatic time saver)

Yes - Reaper works so well via Wine(asio) it's hard to ask for a native port. However this doesn't make a native version undesirable. It could perform even better, could directly benefit from Jack and be free of any Wine quirks. Except Ardour there ins't a serious multitrack DAW (save Renoise but it's a different animal, EnergyXT2 is still underdeveloped) for Linux. A niche user base but little competition too.

And there is Mac port of Reaper, it had to be already made in kind of multiplatform way. Perhaps if we (Linux users) will asks for it, we will get it eventually? Let it be even a paid upgrade - I don't mind. There were initiatives (the humble indie bundle) which showed it's possible to get the same revenue from native Linux versions, as from Macs. IMHO there's a decent chance it'll pay off.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:22 AM   #57
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Default An Idea

This might sound like a strange idea, but i just have to put it across.

Would it be possible for the devs to create a plugin or an extension, that just uses native linux code to 'draw' the GUI in X? I feel the performance under wine is acceptable. This would make the interface a lot more snappier. Perhaps there's room for development under the extension architecture...

again, i have zero clue about software development and programming, so this may seem like a stupid question... if so, kindly ignore this
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:18 AM   #58
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REAPER is already limping on Linux: http://1014.org/?article=414
The next step would be for someone to finish swell/gtk http://www.askjf.com/index.php?q=357s (get it: http://www.cockos.com/wdl/)

So Linux people go ahead an make it a reality!
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:11 PM   #59
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I use Mepis Linux x64 on another box a lot, but for AUDIO I have too much invested in Win based software to ever make the switch..... ;(

But for most everything else I do with a computer, Linux works just fine!
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:11 PM   #60
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No doubt that the best option is ubuntu linux. Specially for servers
Actually Ubuntu is good for desktop. Big distributions like Debian are good for servers.
I've discovered that Ubuntu has some sort of odd configuration with alsa so it doesn't recognize my E-MU 1212m card. Fedora does.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:30 PM   #61
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Actually Ubuntu is good for desktop. Big distributions like Debian are good for servers.
Don't worry that nonsense is mostly link spam to promote his site: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...22&btnG=Search
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:58 PM   #62
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Don't worry that nonsense is mostly link spam to promote his site: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...22&btnG=Search
and mich whips out google and slaps danny0085 in the face with it
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:39 AM   #63
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What Linux lacks, first and foremost, is a better sound subsystem. ALSA has been mostly a PITA to work with. I don't write sound applications (I'm a system + networking dev), but even I can tell when something's a mess by looking at the supplied headers. FreeBSD's OSS compatible implementation is much more mature and stable (granted, it's not low latency either). Unfortunately, to add insult to injury, what various desktop projects build on top of both (PulseAudio & co) do anything but help.

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Old 03-17-2011, 08:14 AM   #64
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An interesting solution would be to develop Reaper OSX in GNUstep instead of cocoa. Apparently, GNUstep developed projects will make a cocoa (therefore, OSX) compatible binary. Using the GNUstep API should reasonably satisfy Linux users as they can run applications natively with the appropriate dependencies, and GNUstep is designed to be its own set of APIs rather than Wine which is a Windows API compatibility layer.

Oh and there's still the audio issue. ALSA I guess, *shrug*
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:42 PM   #65
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or you could make the argument that linux users have come to expect quality software for free and are unlikely to register.
rofl.

-1 for a linux port. You have energy-XT native, so go play with that. For serious music making, stick to Win/Mac.

That being said - linuxSampler is one of the finer things around. Other than that, you're lost playing with some freebies. Where's my CSR plate? where's my Kontakt? Where's my TRacks? Where's Reason? I can't live without these things.

So, please stop wasting time with linux and switch over to stuff that works. How many people use linux for SERIOUS audio work? 10? 100?
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:50 PM   #66
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Actually most "serious" Linux user I know (myself included) are using Linux exclusively on the desktop, because it is just easier to install and use then Windows. Let me tell you why:

On Windows:
When installing the OS I need to tell it on which drive/partition, but I cannot partition the drive during installation, which means I have to do that before (by either first installing Windows on the main drive and do the paritioning and then reinstall, or by using a Linux Live CD).
Then, after everything is installed and after I registered my version, I have to start installing drivers for my hardware manually (MANUALLY!!!). After that, when I have to install some software, I have to go to the website of each software product and download and install it. If those programmes now have newer versions, then they either bother me all with their own "new version" check or I have to check it for each of the programmes my own and again download and install it manually.
I also need to install some sort of virus scanner or malware protection, because otherwise my system will be infected sooner or later. This scanner will run the whole time using RAM and CPU (and of course interferes with everything I do by asking me if I really want to download this and that and whatever). The same goes for a personal firewall.
So using my OS means I have to deal with a lot of thing the whole time manually.

On Linux:
I install the OS, during this I can partition my disk if I want. After installation the hardware just works, because drivers are in the kernel. If I want new software, I go to one central place, namely my package manager and install them from there once. They will automatically receive updates, if I update my system with a single command. Virus scanners and the like are of course unnecessary. My system resources are free for the software I want to run and I don't have to deal with all those things all the time.

Anyway, this is not a rant or anything like that, but my experience. I personally just cannot see the advantage some people see in using Windows.

Regards,
fladd
Oh hellz no. Totally different POV. I lived with Fedora as my main workhorse OS for a year and it didn't cut it. Fedora worked well with my laptop - configured audio and wifi without me doing anything - great! Openoffice, firefox, hulu app worked great. But partitions? I used gParted and if you're not very careful, you could end up chucking your MBR (which I accidentally did). The 'freedom' linux gives you leaves you with a lot of room for error. Won't forget the night I tried rescuing my machine with a fedora USB stick while my teammates waited for me..

And audio? Puhleezz..Right now I'm in Vista 32-bit and its running smooth as buttah in Reaper v3.75. Not gonna swith to Windows 7 with this machine. Crashes are usually due to overloading of plugins or outta RAM issues. For audio, I can't think of going over to linux.

One thing I can think of is setting up a linux box as a linuxSampler server(sorta like gigastudio back in those days).
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:54 PM   #67
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Virus scanners? I have none in my Vista machine (just the windows defender default). Not a single virus from day one. Knock on wood.

In summary - in fedora I spent more time hacking the damn thing to work properly that I finally gave up. I had Ubuntu set up for my parents and they hated it. Switched to Win XP and they got things working again.

I did use Fedora on a USB stick to do some remote session work and for that it worked great. NOT for AUDIO.
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:09 PM   #68
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Oh hellz no. Totally different POV. I lived with Fedora as my main workhorse OS for a year and it didn't cut it. Fedora worked well with my laptop - configured audio and wifi without me doing anything - great! Openoffice, firefox, hulu app worked great. But partitions? I used gParted and if you're not very careful, you could end up chucking your MBR (which I accidentally did). The 'freedom' linux gives you leaves you with a lot of room for error. Won't forget the night I tried rescuing my machine with a fedora USB stick while my teammates waited for me..

And audio? Puhleezz..Right now I'm in Vista 32-bit and its running smooth as buttah in Reaper v3.75. Not gonna swith to Windows 7 with this machine. Crashes are usually due to overloading of plugins or outta RAM issues. For audio, I can't think of going over to linux.

One thing I can think of is setting up a linux box as a linuxSampler server(sorta like gigastudio back in those days).
Why are you talking like a 12 year old girl?
(hellz no, puhleezz)

And why are you so hatefull?
I cant argue with you if you where not capable of running fedora for more than a year,but dont blame linux cause you cant get it.

Look mac and windows are fine, but linux distros are very good os solution(and running reaper with wine is fine, just not perfect)

I'd Love a native linux version of reaper, but if it means angry people freaking out in opposition, Id say the thread has gone on too long.

Ben

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Old 03-17-2011, 03:24 PM   #69
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Why are you talking like a 12 year old girl?
(hellz no, puhleezz)
not very relevant, you're reaching...
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Originally Posted by bennisixx View Post
And why are you so hatefull?
I cant argue with you if you where not capable of running fedora for more than a year,but dont blame linux cause you cant get it.
I think perhaps he hated his experience with linux - not any particular person. This type of hatred I feel he has a right to - he wasted time with it. Apparently, he was busy making music and didn't feel like writing out machine code



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I'd Love a native linux version of reaper, but if it means angry people freaking out in opposition, Id say the thread has gone on too long.
I wouldn't mind a linux port if it made itself. However, I question the market sensibility of devoting man hours to it. I really don't see people freaking out...
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Old 03-18-2011, 06:23 AM   #70
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I cant argue with you if you where not capable of running fedora for more than a year,but dont blame linux cause you cant get it.
I don't. I regret that the rest of the world isn't as smart as you are, to get things working right in Linux. Since musicians don't want to waste time dicking around with scripts, the general idea is to stick with what works, you know, like Linux.

Not angry - just ranting out against the general idea. Not targeted towards you, so don't feel offended. I've seen most of the linux-for-audio arguments and they're simply pointless. If you really think about this issue, you should ask yourself 'whynot windows'. Look at how many people make music with Linux solely. I can't name one, and I'd be suprised even if you could.
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Old 03-18-2011, 11:54 AM   #71
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Excuse me, coming through, just one minute.

For anyone that is curiuos about Linux should know that some dists have made it so easy to install and try out.
You dont even need to create a new partition, you can install from Windows and uninstall from Windows just like you would with any other program.
In this case Linux Mint, lots of dists out there you can check out, not sure about the easy install/uninstall for them all but this tip is focused on the easy un/install part primarily.

KXStudio and Ubuntu Studio is out there too, not sure how easy i should rate their install or how they are right now though.
I could swear i saw a preinstalled Reaper in one of these two..
Ohh, and we have something called LinReaper also yep yep.

There, hope this was informative for someone not so into this, carry on.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:30 PM   #72
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or that those who produce or record music on PCs are most likely to choose Linux over Windows or OSX if they had a stable, feature-rich DAW and instruments and effects, given that the price is the same.
Do you really believe that?
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:45 PM   #73
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not very relevant, you're reaching...


I think perhaps he hated his experience with linux - not any particular person. This type of hatred I feel he has a right to - he wasted time with it. Apparently, he was busy making music and didn't feel like writing out machine code





I wouldn't mind a linux port if it made itself. However, I question the market sensibility of devoting man hours to it. I really don't see people freaking out...
ok ok I just don't see as how a feature request (really even though its big, that is all this is) gets such negative attention.

Its like the jealous boyfriend being defensive..."don't touch my reaper development with your dirty OS cause I'm better and more important....arrrrggghh"

Really I don't give a shit, This is dual boot territory. Reaper on native linux would just be a bonus.

Yeah the 12 year old girl thing was rude and for that I apologize....As it was not relevant to the discussion.

anyway I probably shouldn't chime in on these things.

I think a linux port made by a third party would be great.... any chance Cockos would be cool with it...I don't know.

And about hatred justified by wasting time. That can at any point come to any one of us for any reason. Even music creation itself. How is that anyone's responsibility but their own.


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Old 03-18-2011, 04:51 PM   #74
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I don't. I regret that the rest of the world isn't as smart as you are, to get things working right in Linux. Since musicians don't want to waste time dicking around with scripts, the general idea is to stick with what works, you know, like Linux.

Not angry - just ranting out against the general idea. Not targeted towards you, so don't feel offended. I've seen most of the linux-for-audio arguments and they're simply pointless. If you really think about this issue, you should ask yourself 'whynot windows'. Look at how many people make music with Linux solely. I can't name one, and I'd be suprised even if you could.
I use windows all the time, and use linux just as often. Its not a war here man.

I feel it is fatal to not look into something before you jump into it. Any music gear should be this way, so why not the os you use.

I know linux is hard with audio, but if reaper came native, I would believe that linux audio would have good reason to improve as well.

I think Windows is by far the best for now. It does work.
But I don't think any hate should be spread towards the hopeful(we have no chance in hell on this btw)

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Old 03-18-2011, 04:57 PM   #75
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rofl.

-1 for a linux port. You have energy-XT native, so go play with that. For serious music making, stick to Win/Mac.

That being said - linuxSampler is one of the finer things around. Other than that, you're lost playing with some freebies. Where's my CSR plate? where's my Kontakt? Where's my TRacks? Where's Reason? I can't live without these things.

So, please stop wasting time with linux and switch over to stuff that works. How many people use linux for SERIOUS audio work? 10? 100?
They don't do it because they CAN'T, not because they don't want to.
If there wasn't for this corporate race for money, Linux would be blowing Windows + Mac at anything.
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Old 03-25-2011, 02:24 PM   #76
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I'd think i linux version would be a nice feature but only once os x is figured out and more stable/ efficient! Maybe a linux dev could join the team so the main dev's can still focus on the current versions and request's?????
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Old 03-25-2011, 02:33 PM   #77
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I'm sure the devs have considered a linux version. They've been doing a great job so far with the windows version, and supporting WINErs as well. It would be amazing to have reaper on linux.

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping as well
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:19 PM   #78
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First off, I want to share a link to this article I found a while ago.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb0...irrorimage.htm

so, yes, someone, somewhere has done it. That is, operated a linux based pro studio with Ardour 0.0something. That article is from 6 years ago though, and I do wonder how that worked out for them and where are they now?

So I'm gonna put this out there, after hemhawing around about the validity of this idea, I'm just going to drop it in the pool and see if it sinks or swims.

ReaperOS.
seriously. What if Reaper WAS your OS. And it could be based on a linux kernal, so everybody can be happy. For everybody who uses their computer for music 90% of the time, why not make the OS the DAW?
Okay, let the flaming and nay-saying begin!
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:23 PM   #79
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First off, I want to share a link to this article I found a while ago.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb0...irrorimage.htm

so, yes, someone, somewhere has done it. That is, operated a linux based pro studio with Ardour 0.0something. That article is from 6 years ago though, and I do wonder how that worked out for them and where are they now?

So I'm gonna put this out there, after hemhawing around about the validity of this idea, I'm just going to drop it in the pool and see if it sinks or swims.

ReaperOS.
seriously. What if Reaper WAS your OS. And it could be based on a linux kernal, so everybody can be happy. For everybody who uses their computer for music 90% of the time, why not make the OS the DAW?
Okay, let the flaming and nay-saying begin!
That actually sounds brilliant.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:22 PM   #80
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ReaperOS.
seriously. What if Reaper WAS your OS. And it could be based on a linux kernal, so everybody can be happy. For everybody who uses their computer for music 90% of the time, why not make the OS the DAW?
Okay, let the flaming and nay-saying begin!
No flaming, but plenty of nay-saying...

I'd imagine that Reaper makes many, many calls to the operating system; all of those routines would have to be replaced by whatever native routines would replace them. Of course, they'd first have to write those native routines. Then they'd have to write drivers for any monitor, printer, sound card, USB drive, etc., etc. that any user could come up with. Then they'd have to work with the vendors of every audio interface out there so those folks could write drivers (as though they'd be interested in putting R&D dollars into such a thing when most of them already don't support Linux). And then they'd have to support everybody that wanted to run Microsoft Office applications, or Open Office, or Solitaire, or PhotoShop, or any other software out there. And don't forget supporting iPhones, Androids, Zunes, GPS receivers, and any other type of peripheral that's out there. All of this would be done for a tiny percentage of the computer user community out there.

Oh, and in their spare time they could work on the list of Reaper feature requests that are already in front of them. They should get back to that in about a decade or so.

Is that enough nay-saying? I could provide more, but I'm sure others will be happy to join in.
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