Old 06-02-2009, 08:16 AM   #41
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Tested 3.01 for a while and had no problems with midi dropouts.

Just when playing a loop the midi notes on the first loop measure are not played.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:50 PM   #42
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I installed v3.01 and immediately had ext MIDI loss. Occurred during playback after only a few bars. But this time Reaper did not go into 50% CPU meditation.

I had that (MIDI loss + meditation) happening some minutes ago with v3.00, and I gathered a bunch of screen dumps from ProcessExplorer, threads, stack etc. Interesting?

BTW. Opening my project in v3.01 I get an error message about "5 items in the project that were not understood [...]" This I do not get with opening in v3.00. What's up there?
EDIT: Never mind that last part. I forgot to put SWS' extensions in the Plugin folder, sorry.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:58 PM   #43
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Default v3.01 seems slightly better

v3.01 may be slightly better with respect to the loss of external MIDI. Tonight I experienced such ext MIDI losses at 4 times since installing v3.01, both loss during playback and loss right from hitting SPACE. However, none of those times resulted in Reaper meditation. At all four times I could restore ext MIDI by opening preferences, clicking MIDI Devices, and closing.

Slightly better, but not fully recovered, it seems...
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:32 AM   #44
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I can confirm the disappearing of MIDI Hardware output on the latest release (3.01 6855).

Several enabling/disabling of MIDI output in Options can cure the problem for some time.

I'm using Midiman Midisport 4x4 on Windows 7.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:31 PM   #45
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yup 3.01 is no better for me. Still getting regular and random midi death.

Incidentally i also noticed that when doing a real time render theres a much longer pause between clicking start and it actually starting playback/render.
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #46
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OK, for you people out there loosing MIDI to external devices, try this:
When ext MIDI disappears, stop playback, Alt+Tab or in some other way give focus to some app other than Reaper, then give Reaper focus back and resume playback. Is ext MIDI restored?

It is for me.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:04 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Looking into this, sounds annoying!
Thanks Schwa.

Regards.





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Old 06-03-2009, 06:09 PM   #48
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So...still unusable midi prog??
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:53 AM   #49
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Spent the day with 3.01 and its actually worse than 3.

I used to be able to unplug/replug my midi interface to get things working again but that no longer works.

Can you please get this sorted soon as this is a pretty huge bug that completely destroys my workflow.

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Old 06-04-2009, 10:42 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
When ext MIDI disappears, stop playback, Alt+Tab or in some other way give focus to some app other than Reaper, then give Reaper focus back and resume playback. Is ext MIDI restored?
Not for me.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:21 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valery_Kondakoff View Post
Not for me.
OK, so that hunch didn't come thru...

Next idea:
Do we all have USB MIDI i/f's?
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:18 PM   #52
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Didn't work for me either Fabian, but good try : )

My main midi interface is USB, but the midi on my firewire RME Fireface400 craps out too.

I'm sending sync out on most of my ports, anyone else ? Havn't experimented with disabling sync yet, but hey you never know.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_bleeder View Post
Didn't work for me either Fabian, but good try : )
Yeah...
Alt+Tabbing works for me most of the time. At other times, when losing focus Reaper goes into 50% CPU meditation and never comes back. I have to force-kill the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_bleeder View Post
My main midi interface is USB, but the midi on my firewire RME Fireface400 craps out too.

I'm sending sync out on most of my ports, anyone else ? Havn't experimented with disabling sync yet, but hey you never know.
I am only sending MIDI events, no sync. Let us hear what happens when you disable sync...
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:14 PM   #54
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Installed Reaper 3.01, the problem is still here. I just lost the midi connections while scrolling (horizontally) in a midi editor window. If i enter Preferences -> Audio -> Devices, midi comes back (for maybe another 5 minutes...).

Alt-Tab is of no use to bring the midi back.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:43 PM   #55
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I hate, hate, hate this bug. I have not been able to reproduce it even once. It must be system dependent in some way.

People having the bug, are you running the external MIDI ports in low latency mode or not? Could you try changing (in prefs/audio/MIDI, select the output port) to or from low latency mode to see if it affects the problem?
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:18 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
try changing (in prefs/audio/MIDI, select the output port) to or from low latency mode
I have yet not seen 'loosing MIDI outs' after setting all the MIDI outputs to the low latency mode.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:05 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valery_Kondakoff View Post
I have yet not seen 'loosing MIDI outs' after setting all the MIDI outputs to the low latency mode.
yup, me too . Seems to work perfectly in low latency mode and goes kaput if any midi out is changed back to normal mode.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:07 AM   #58
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OK thanks. We don't recommend low latency mode in general (jitter is much higher in low latency mode), but this does give us useful information.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:16 AM   #59
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yup, me too . Seems to work perfectly in low latency mode and goes kaput if any midi out is changed back to normal mode.
I just changed all midi outs back to normal latency mode and changed all my midi ins to precision mode cancelling the Reaper choose mode and it all works like a dream. No midi crashing at all in 3 hours....hurrah.
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
changing (in prefs/audio/MIDI, select the output port) to or from low latency mode to see if it affects the problem?
Changed MIDI out to low latency, did not work. On the contrary, lost ext MIDI totally. At first it seemed fine, then... gone. None of my fixes (Prefs > MIDI Devices > Close, or Alt+Tab) resurrected it. Had to exit Reaper (v3.01).

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I hate, hate, hate this bug
Sorry...
Will send you the project later this evening, Schwa.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:27 AM   #61
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I don't know if it's related but will post just to be sure. If it's not related I'll drop the post somewhere else.

My BCR2000 is no longer able to send any data to Reaper. It DOES receive data (if I solo track 1 that is correctly displayed on the BCR) but it will not send any data. That is, the changes I make on the BCR don't do anything in Reaper.. I installed older versions of Reaper (down to 2.4) which showed the same phenomena.

This is very frustrating.... the midi signals are correctly received in other midi-controlled software (audiomulch).
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_bleeder View Post
I just changed all midi outs back to normal latency mode and changed all my midi ins to precision mode cancelling the Reaper choose mode and it all works like a dream. No midi crashing at all in 3 hours....hurrah.
Looks like i spoke too soon.

I did a final realtime render, went out for a Thai, came back read Fabians post, played my project again......midi had died.
Coudn't get it working again until i changed midi outs to low latency clicked apply , changed back to precision and clicked apply again. ( midi ins still left in precision time stamp mode ).

Hmmm....don't think the Tom Yum Ka is to blame, so in the interests in finding a correlation for everyone suffering from this heres my full midi/usb spec...

motu usb 8x midi interface
RME fireface400 firewire soundcard with 2x midi
Nord Modular G2 with usb connection ( for patch programmer )
Terratec Axon usb midi guitar interface
LoopBe virtual midi port

microsoft wifi intellimouse on usb port
2x external usb hard drives

intel quad
4gb ram
xp sp2

I have also noticed that when using arrow up/down to move a midi note in the midi editor it takes a good few seconds to move , much longer that it used to, and online render takes an age ( well 20 secs )to get started.

Hope some of this helps.

cheers

Pendle
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:41 PM   #63
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Hey Schwa-

Sorry I was on travel this week and I'm just getting back to this. Ver 3.01h on XP 64 (32 bit Reaper)now seems fine if I put all my midi out ports in low latency . Without low latency no change from 3.0. Only been at it for about 15 minutes but I now have 5 midi devices layered through Reaper and all is good so far. I'll let you know how things go this weekend.

Thanks for all your efforts.



To further clarify there appears to be no difference between 3.0 and 3.01h. With low latency set things are good in either version. With low latency not checked Midi loss results in either version.

Last edited by markyboard; 06-05-2009 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:53 AM   #64
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(from Justin email)

hey guys,

Here's a late-night build that might actually work ok, and it might just crash and make you sad. let me know where on the spectrum you find it!

---------------------------------
3.02 - OH YEAH!!!

About 20 minutes in so far (Xp64/32 bit Reaper- my trouble setup) and No MIDI loss so far with Low Latency unchecked. I'll run with it for a few hours today or until I break it.

Thanks guys!
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:28 AM   #65
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We have a fix for this, in fact it's a low level code change that should bring good improvements in almost every area, including external MIDI timing, consistency, and overall project CPU use when any MIDI outputs are enabled (even if they aren't in active use).

Look for the fix in 3.03, and anyone who has had this problem, thanks for your patience!
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:42 AM   #66
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Excellent news.. can't wait

Many thanks for giving it attention..

TM ™
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:58 PM   #67
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Problem havers, if you are feeling intrepid, please give 3.02pre a try: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=37249
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:23 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Problem havers, if you are feeling intrepid, please give 3.02pre a try: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=37249
All seem good here after 60 minutes of 3.02pre (build 6904)..
No drop outs as yet..

:-)
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:52 AM   #69
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Just downloaded 3.02. Did some intereasting observations. My problem, as described above (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=61) still occurs when there is no play. As soon as I press play I am able to control Reaper again via the BCR. Is this related to any kind of preference setting?

Edit: answer is YES, of course, you moron! I had 'close control surface devices when stopped and ..etc ' ticked!!!
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:49 AM   #70
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Ran all day with 3.02 yesterday. N0 problems. You guys are awesome. Thanks!!!
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:48 AM   #71
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Hmmm... Just saw the 'Loosing MIDI output' issue in a five minutes after installing Reaper 3.02 b6906 on an empty project.

Was able to bring the MIDI output back by several Reaper restarting and recreating the project. Let's see if this will happen again...

(Win7, Midiman Midisport 4x4 USB)
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:08 AM   #72
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Yes, this happens to me again and again. Right now the MIDI output disappears even when device is set to Low Latency mode. Output disappearing happens very often - usually every 3-4 minute. The only way to bring the MIDI outputs back is to restart Reaper several times...
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:13 AM   #73
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Valery_Kondakoff, I think you are having a different problem from the one reported by the rest of the users. If you are losing MIDI with 3.02, and even in low-latency mode, then something different is going wrong for you.

What device are you using, and can you describe the setup?
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:50 AM   #74
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This is an ASUS M50SV notebook running Win7 RC1, Reaper 3.02 6906, external USB Midiman MidiSport 4x4.

Yes, the symptoms are slightly different:

- first of all when the problem arise _all_ of the outputs are not working (with the Reaper 3.01 there were chances to see one output not working, while the others still functioning). I can output to Miscrosoft GS Wavetable synth or Track FX though.

- MIDI outputs never disappears in the middle of MIDI recording or playback. They disappears only when I hit spacebar to start/stop MIDI recording/playback.

- there are chances to bring MIDI outputting back by continuous hitting spacebar (start/stop) on MIDI item (something about MIDI initializing when starting/stopping MIDI playback?)

- here is what I see in Reaper 3.01: when the application is launching without any project loading at startup, all of enabled MIDI outputs are blinking once (that means, that Reaper have sent some MIDI data). Then, if I will continiously hit spacebar to Start/Stop playback on empty Reaper workspace (no project loaded on startup) the outputs will blink every start and every stop. So, MIDI data is sent when playing starts and playing ends.
When I'm launching Reaper 3.02 the outputs blink on application launch and then 2 or 3 times when I'm hitting spacebar - not everytime.

Right now I downgraded to Reaper 3.01 - it is more predictable in case of MIDI output disappearing...
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Old 06-07-2009, 01:20 PM   #75
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I've just been playing with the "late-night build that might actually work ok" 3.02xxx (6893), and during 2 hours I've seen no ext MIDI drop (normal mode, not "low latency"). I definitely find this version on the working end of the spectrum...

In fact, it seems to me to work much better with MIDI. Recording from ext MIDI device driven by Reaper does not require manually shifting the recorded audio item, as before. Seems the improvements promised by Schwa in the post above hold true.

Great job guys!
Thanks a heap...

EDIT: Just to make sure, I loaded 3.01 and played. Ext MIDI loss already four bars into the song!
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:40 AM   #76
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Quote:
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something different is going wrong for you
I have investigated the problem a little bit. Here is what I found (let's call the problem 'stop/play MIDI output loss'):

- the 'stop/play MIDI output loss' never happens in R3.01. It was introduced in R3.02 (and the previous nightly build)
- setting MIDI output to 'Low Latency' mode does not affect the 'stop/play MIDI output loss' problem
- the 'stop/play MIDI output loss' happens very often: every second, third or fourth attempt to stop/play MIDI
- it is very difficult to bring the MIDI outputs back: you should restart Reaper more than a dozen of times continuously pressing start/stop to 'reset' the outputs.
- (important!) when I clear both the 'Send all-notes-off' on stop/play' _and_ 'Reset pitch on stop/play' checkboxes in MIDI devices preferences the problem happens _much_ more seldom. Clearing only one of the checkboxes does not help.
- when 'Send all-notes-off' on stop/play' and 'Reset pitch on stop/play' checkboxes are cleared it is easy to bring the MIDI outputs back - in general you should just restart Reaper once.

So - it seems smth wrong happens on stop/play stage of MIDI intercommunication. HTH!

(ASUS M50SV notebook running Win7 RC1, Reaper 3.02 6906, external USB Midiman MidiSport 4x4)
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:49 AM   #77
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The MIDI dropout problem I believe is fixed in general, as has been said I think Valery's problem is something different (probably completely unrelated to the problem other people were having).

Valery, does the problem you are having happen with any project, or just specific MIDI items? Does it happen on other computers, or other OS besides Windows 7?
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:06 AM   #78
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This happens on any project, containing MIDI. It is easy to reproduce on my machine (when 'Send all-notes-off on stop/play' and 'Reset pitch on stop/play' checkboxes are enabled) on an empty prject with one and only newly created MIDI item.

Currently I can not check if this happens on other computers, or other OSes, but I'm pretty sure (checked this twice): this problem was introduced by changes made in R3.02 code.

When I downgrade to R3.01 I experience the 'MIDI loss' bug, which can be avoided by setting MIDI outputs to 'Low latency' mode, but I can not reproduce the 'stop/play MIDI output loss'...

I'm ready for testing if you have some ideas how to nail this bug (maybe it is possible to compile a special debug build which will log the MIDI activity on stop/play?).
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:33 AM   #79
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To be perfectly honest Valery, I suspect your system -- a notebook running Windows 7 would have a high chance of a driver or hardware problem.

Does the midisport have a dedicated Windows 7 driver? When you say that all outputs stop working, do you mean all of the midisport's output ports, or do you have other devices?

The most useful thing would be if you could install MIDI-ox, send output to it, and watch its activity log. Does output drop to MIDI-ox, or just to the midisport?

For context, there isn't any sort of device reset that occurs on play/stop. With the preferences enabled, Reaper sends messages to turn all notes off and reset CC on start, but those are just normal MIDI messages sent the normal way. The only possibly unusual thing about the start messages is that there are a number of them sent at once, so possibly your MIDI driver is choking on the message flood (though TBH it's not much of a flood).
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:06 AM   #80
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I see. There are no dedicated Win7 Midisport 4x4 drivers, I'm using the Win Vista one and I have not experienced problems so far in many apps (btw, Midisport works well in R3.01 - not counting the 'Low Latency' bug).

As of MIDIOX - I downloaded and installed it. I might not understand correctly your request to 'send output to it' (does this means send output from Reaper to MIDIOX? - I still can not find a way to route Reaper MIDI out to MIDIOX MIDI in, but I'm trying!).

Right now I can report that when 'stop/play MIDI output loss' problem appears in Reaper, MIDIOX is still able to output data to Midisport.
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