Old 07-21-2009, 06:05 PM   #1
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Default msvcrt.dll crash.

[IMG]http://img32.**************/img32/1448/msvcrt.png[/IMG]


Not sure if this is a reaper bug but ive had this crash 4 times now, cant repro it though.

Sometimes i was working in another app, reaper wasnt even playing and just crashed.

This one happened when i opened a new project.



Anyone know what msvcrt.dll is for? Can i just get a new one?
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:07 PM   #2
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Maybe this helps http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192123

I guess you need to click the technical info link to get technical info useful to solve the technical problem...
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:13 PM   #3
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usually means you're running out of RAM. how much RAM on your machine, any heavy plugins running?

(msvcrt is the microsoft visual c runtime and it's pretty stable, i wouldn't suggest trying to replace it)
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:18 PM   #4
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http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=13

The reason why I discovered this was that I had massive crashes with msvcrt.dll (on Vista) in the 3.06pres all of a sudden and I was apparently the only one. I made pretty much the same observations like you (crashing while doing something outside Reaper and on project load) and this happened before 3.06 as well, but much less severe. Unchecking this option fixed it. Even if you have "Ignore ASIO reset...." unticked, maybe turning that on changes something on your system as well? What interface are you using?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:41 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies guys.

Ive got 1gig of ram, but never come close to maxing it out.

Im using a M-Audio Delta 44, ill have a play with that option and see what happens. Might take a while though as i only get a crash every few days.

Im gonna try this...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324762

...and see what happens.
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:55 PM   #6
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with only 1Gb, there's a strong possibility you ARE running low on RAM. in the advanced buffer options (i think) there's an option to disable memory mapping of peak files ("uses less address space") - try it with the memory mapping disabled.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:04 PM   #7
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OK, thanks, ill try that too but the project that crashed had only 2 tracks with no plugins so im pretty sure the ram was fine.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:42 AM   #8
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Well, the dll was fine. MD5 says its the same as the one on the windows install disc.

The asio option was unticked here, as its always been. Ill leave it ticked for a while to see what happens.
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:03 AM   #9
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I confirm this issue: got it in my reacrash jpegs!! Same dll, same offset (I didn't it post as I thought it was some "Win stuff"). Win XP sp3. In the jpg name, I've noted that it occured when loading a project while another was playing.

Billoon, bad news for us!!!
- M-Audio Delta here too (delta 66 but usually some good, Good, GOOD & stable stuff)
- Tick box unticked too

The question is: why is it occurring in 3.xx ?
I never seen that it in v2.xx versions.
[EDIT] this CANNOT be a ram issue, here, at least.

Billoon,
I'll have a look at M-Audio. What is your driver version ? I'll post mine later.

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-23-2009 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:16 AM   #10
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Well at least its not exclusively a local issue.

Im on XP SP2 using the latest M-Audio driver - Delta_V32_5.10.00.5069v3.exe


Details here...http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=....drivers&f=930


I can't say for sure but i think it started crashing on v3.05betas here. I sort of brushed it off as probably due to something else and just kept working at the time. After the 4th or so one i though i should report it.

They did a whole bunch of optomisations then that maybe had something to do with it?
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:28 AM   #11
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... unknown issue @ M-Audio. I think I've got the same driver (as the last update was in Jun 08, I'll edit this post later if it's not the same).
Billoon, dunno! For the moment, what we can just say is that this issue appeared in reaper 3.xx with with the same ASIO drivers than we were using in 2.xx. Some dev feedback/ideas about that would be appreciated...
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:45 PM   #12
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Personally, i dont think its a driver issue.

Ive been using this driver for months and the crashes only started a couple of weeks ago(approx.)

Also, im not getting any other programs crashing ATM at all, even ones that use the same asio driver.

So i think this may actually be a reaper issue.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:10 PM   #13
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Is this a correct summary: there's an occasional msvcrt crash when using some M-Audio interfaces with Reaper, with no obvious pattern in behavior causing it.

It would be great to be able to narrow down the problem in some way, any pattern of behavior that triggers it.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Is this a correct summary: there's an occasional msvcrt crash when using some M-Audio interfaces with Reaper, with no obvious pattern in behavior causing it.

It would be great to be able to narrow down the problem in some way, any pattern of behavior that triggers it.
you might remember the loop-repeating "reaper vanishes" bug i reported a while back - i've got 2 x delta 66's wordclocked together (xp SP3 core 2 duo). note: the problem has disappeared, i haven't seen any trace of it in ages. no idea why.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:29 AM   #15
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Ok, I think I've got reproduction steps (but tried hard.. as it's annoying).

I describe all the things I do, but some of them and perharps not related. The idea was to put some people on the driver (as I said I also don't think it's the culprit: unknown issue @ M-Audio + ok in 2.xx).

Dub, billoon, can you try this ?
- open an external audio editor (Audition 1.5 here) loop-play on some media
- open the M-Audio control panel
- open reaper (HEAVY project here)
- arm some tracks (2 here) but just play
- in M-Audio control panel, change the "input" gain of both armed tracks (i.e. in the 2nd tab, -10, consumer or +4db)
- back to reaper (that still play) load another project while playing (another HEAVY one here)
=> reaper crashes (not systematically but quite often):




schwa,
Thanks for taking care.
can I do something else ?

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-24-2009 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Is this a correct summary: there's an occasional msvcrt crash when using some M-Audio interfaces with Reaper, with no obvious pattern in behavior causing it.
Yeah, thats about it.

Ill try the steps posted above, but i havent been able to get a repro yet.

The only thing i can think of that might be consistent is, i was doing something outside of reaper or loading a new project but in every case reaper was otherwise idle at the time.
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Old 07-25-2009, 03:30 AM   #17
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OK, tried the repro, didnt work here. Doesnt want to crash anymore.

Anyway, found this in the dr watson log, theres a fault mentioned that might help???...


*----> State Dump for Thread Id 0x53c <----*

eax=00d21eff ebx=77c5f7a0 ecx=00000000 edx=02635d20 esi=0000656c edi=02635d20
eip=77c483b4 esp=00119294 ebp=001192a0 iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz na po nc
cs=001b ss=0023 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=003b gs=0000 efl=00000286

*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for L:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll -
function: msvcrt!wcsxfrm
77c483a1 8bec mov ebp,esp
77c483a3 57 push edi
77c483a4 56 push esi
77c483a5 53 push ebx
77c483a6 8b750c mov esi,[ebp+0xc]
77c483a9 8b7d08 mov edi,[ebp+0x8]
77c483ac b0ff mov al,0xff
77c483ae 8bff mov edi,edi
77c483b0 0ac0 or al,al
77c483b2 742e jz msvcrt!wcsxfrm+0x150 (77c483e2)
FAULT ->77c483b4 8a06 mov al,[esi] ds:0023:0000656c=??
77c483b6 46 inc esi
77c483b7 8a27 mov ah,[edi]
77c483b9 47 inc edi
77c483ba 38c4 cmp ah,al
77c483bc 74f2 jz msvcrt!wcsxfrm+0x11e (77c483b0)
77c483be 2c41 sub al,0x41
77c483c0 3c1a cmp al,0x1a
77c483c2 1ac9 sbb cl,cl
77c483c4 80e120 and cl,0x20
77c483c7 02c1 add al,cl

*----> Stack Back Trace <----*
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for L:\Program Files\REAPERtest\Plugins\reaper_midi.dll
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for L:\Program Files\REAPERtest\Plugins\reaper_midi.dll -
ChildEBP RetAddr Args to Child
001192a0 77c4627d 02635d20 0000656c 00000000 msvcrt!wcsxfrm+0x122
001192b8 025f0f46 02635d20 0000656c 00d262ac msvcrt!stricmp+0x2f
02609fd4 00001000 00000fa0 00000008 00000000 reaper_midi+0x40f46
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:53 AM   #18
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Ok. I can reproduce it quite easily, here. so, if there's something to try, let me know...
[edit] same bug with "igonre reset msg" ticked or not

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-25-2009 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:31 PM   #19
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I havent got the msvcrt crash since the one i started the thread with, but i got 2 others last night. Couldnt repeat them either though. Just in case it helps ill post the pics...

Here, i switched project tabs>add fx>double clicked a standard JS...

[IMG]http://img40.**************/img40/6930/switchtabaddjs.png[/IMG]

Here, i just deleted some files from the media explorer...

[IMG]http://img40.**************/img40/5728/deletingfilesfromme.png[/IMG]
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:23 PM   #20
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if you're getting random crashes in lots of different places, there's a very strong chance there's something wrong with your RAM, your motherboard, or your windows install. or you're just running out of RAM - have you tried running some diagnostics to see how much physical RAM/address space you're using?
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:24 PM   #21
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also are you running antivirus programs etc?
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
have you tried running some diagnostics to see how much physical RAM/address space you're using?
How do i do this?

Not using antivir, daws not on the net.


The thing is, its only reaper thats crashing, every other program is fine, never get blue screens.

Im very sure im not running out of ram, i keep an eye on that and ive always got 300mb at least free.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:45 PM   #23
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in that case track down a RAM testing tool (google for memtest86 i think). if that comes up clean i'd possibly suggest ghosting your audio machine and rebuilding it from scratch.

could also be overclocking/temperature related, power supply (did you recently add any new hardware/pci cards? do you have a heater or aircon on the same circuit?), outside chance of a corrupt WAV file (does it only happen on one project?), or maybe some spyware or something has made its way to your machine. crashes in msvcrt.dll are almost always caused by something fairly low-level and the fact you're getting crashes in other stuff supports that idea.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:21 AM   #24
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...and the fact you're getting crashes in other stuff supports that idea.
You must have misread my post, im not getting crashes in anything else, just reaper.

Ill try the memtest and run a system monitor to check for overheating.

Heaters plugged into the wall socket next to the computer, so could be that.

Dont think ive got any spyware, im pretty careful about what goes on the daw and ive had a poke around, nothing out of the ordinary.

Happens on various(normally unsaved) projects. No overclocking, no new hardware and im probably overdue for restoring a nice ghost image.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:35 AM   #25
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I join the party. Having lots of those crashes since v3.06 (using vista32 and m-audio asio driver (ozone)).

I'm sure this is a Reaper issue, screw the bad ram/low ram/overheating/antivirus idea, wasn't there before this version and happens only with R.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
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You must have misread my post, im not getting crashes in anything else, just reaper.
you're getting crashes in core windows files, reaper and the js effect compiler/runner- those are all separate things. reaper pushes computers a lot harder than most other apps, even at low load settings, so it's possible that it's a hardware problem.

of course, maybe one of your plugins (or reaper itself) is mangling memory, but i'm pretty sure you just don't have enough RAM on there. things like timestretching burn up loads of address space (what's your virtual memory set to, btw?)

Quote:
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Ill try the memtest and run a system monitor to check for overheating.

Heaters plugged into the wall socket next to the computer, so could be that.

Dont think ive got any spyware, im pretty careful about what goes on the daw and ive had a poke around, nothing out of the ordinary.

Happens on various(normally unsaved) projects. No overclocking, no new hardware and im probably overdue for restoring a nice ghost image.
set reaper to autobackup every 2 minutes and at least you won't lose any data until you work out what the problem is.
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
you're getting crashes in core windows files, reaper and the js effect compiler/runner- those are all separate things.
Yeah, but only reaper crashes them, no other apps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
of course, maybe one of your plugins (or reaper itself) is mangling memory, but i'm pretty sure you just don't have enough RAM on there. things like timestretching burn up loads of address space (what's your virtual memory set to, btw?)
Page file is fixed at 1.5gig. Dont use time stretching/resampling. Just straight recording and mailnly use cockos/js plugs. i do like to play with a bunch of freebie as well though, so maybe thats it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
set reaper to autobackup every 2 minutes and at least you won't lose any data until you work out what the problem is.
Yeah, good idea.

Oh yeah, memtest86+ says no errors.


I did a complete new windows install last night and ran reaper for a few hours with no probs and because i cant repro it, im starting to think, in my case at least, it may be due to my system being a bit unkempt. Cant speak for the others though.

If the issue returns, ill report back.



Cheers for your help.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:15 AM   #28
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Got another crash last night.

[IMG]http://img41.**************/img41/8194/bilderman2009072893541p.png[/IMG]

This is on a clean windows install. Only REAPER, Foobar and VLC installed.

I cant repro it, but i had 2 tabs open, hit close reaper, selected no when asked to save both projects, reaper closed then i got this crash report.



I hope this isnt hardware related, my computer is less than a year old.
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Old 07-29-2009, 09:46 AM   #29
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Oh.. no. It seems I'm either transparent or "untrustable". That's a nice effort, but I frankly halucinate on the probable causes given here (I'm a dev). So, once again:
- This is not a RAM issue. I can even first monitor a huge flush of swap+ram - then the bug occurs while the memory use is growing-up again ("normal" for me: flush on close project, grow up on new project load). So I can even say that the bug seems to occur with less memory use.
- The bug is not occuring in 2.58 (or, at least, I didn't manage to reproduce it, altough I use the same projects, same drivers, etc)
- This bug is not due to the fact that zinédine zidane quitted the french football team

Also, in the repro, when I talk about "heavy" project its means:
- 1 project of 4h and 2h30 for the other one
- lot of midi items: keys (8 VSTis via routing) + drums (8 huge VSTis via routing) on the whole project duration
- lot of audio items: vocals+guitar+toggle between upright bass (line+mic) and bass
- Routing to hardware midi outs (2) to hardware audio outs (4)
- other JS/FX stuff
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
- This bug is not due to the fact that zinédine zidane quitted the french football team
Are you sure ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
- 1 project of 4h and 2h30 for the other one
This means Reaper has chopped up your items into several smaller files, right? Could the problem be there?

How about clicking the dialog "To view technical information about the error report" and telling us what pops up?
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:48 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Oh.. no. It seems I'm either transparent or "untrustable".
Im sure thats not the case.

Could you remove steps from your repreo one at a time to try narrow it down a bit further?

Our crashes may be caused by different issues as i cant repro mine at all.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:51 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian View Post
How about clicking the dialog "To view technical information about the error report" and telling us what pops up?
He already did. Its up a few posts.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:00 AM   #33
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edit: never mind the spam.

Last edited by Billoon; 07-30-2009 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:31 AM   #34
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First, I don't want to be annoying with that bug! The point is that I'm seriously thinking of using reaper on stage (W/ soft-free spare system). So any crash get my attention. The pb with this one is that I'm quiet sure I've seen it while doing other things than "loading a project" but, alas, I was not storing crash offsets at that time...
So this one looks like the famous "When I load a project my trousers explode" bug that mysteriously disappeared from the issue tracker... It can be anooying on stage (except for Iggy of course).

@Billoon
Thanks for the "transparency". I already tried to simplify the repro but since I skip one of the steps I cannot reproduce it. However, I'm also sure that some of those steps are not related, I think it's more due to the actions order, not sure. I'll try to refine it again.

@Fabian
Good idea! I've checked, no chopped items: in fact those projects are "one shot" band rehearsals. But we did some breaks...
Quote:
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How about clicking the dialog "To view technical information about the error report" and telling us what pops up?
You mean "Pour consulter les informations techniques sur le rapport d'erreur, cliquez-ici" ?
Ok, I'll do it (as an edit here) 'cause right now I'm not able to reproduced it !! Another weird thing: it seems to occur only during the evening, since zizou has left.
ps: you get my vote for your recent FR!
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
@Fabian
Good idea! I've checked, no chopped items: in fact those projects are "one shot" band rehearsals. But we did some breaks...
What I meant (and maybe you got that, but just in case) is that there is a setting under Preferences > Audio > Recording to have Reaper "Start new files every xxxx megabytes (approx)", and this is on by default with xxxx = 1024. So, every 1 GB Reaper creates a new file, and at 44.1kHz/24bit wav, 1 GB is approx 2 hours. Maybe the problem is there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
You mean "Pour consulter les informations techniques sur le rapport d'erreur, cliquez-ici" ?
Oui, oui. Hopefully it will tell us more...

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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
ps: you get my vote for your recent FR!
Great. Thanks.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:54 PM   #36
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pffff.... not able to reproduce this evening either! This one smells bad.

Quote:
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What I meant (and maybe you got that, but just in case) ...
yes, got that!
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:55 PM   #37
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Billoon
i dont know if this is your problem re that dll.
its a dll as part of windows obviously.
ive sometimes seen such problems on some daws
if one is useing an older version of windows.

how old is your version of win ?? how olds your pc ??
ive also seen various probs if a user has inadvertently deleted
a needed win dll which youll normally find resides in
windows>>system dir if i remember.
thus i would do two things.
1. make sure it resides on your system..and
2. make sure you have a later version if its been updated by MS.

Last edited by manning1; 07-30-2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 07-30-2009, 07:07 PM   #38
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Much of this discussion is over my head, and I may well have misunderstood something in this thread, but you might want to at least try setting your swap file to dynamic instead of fixed and see what happens.

Fixed is great for saving those expansion/contraction cycles, but when you run out of fixed swap file, you crash. And it's unpredictable, because you fill RAM differently all the time.

I know that you're supposedly not running out of real/virtual RAM, but, hey, what can it hurt to make sure?

In any case, good luck. This stuff can drive you insane.
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Old 07-30-2009, 10:54 PM   #39
Billoon
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Hey manning, im on xp sp2, comps a year old, 1.8gig dualcore, 1gig ram. Im running a new windows install ATM and only had 1 crash so far.


Greylion, i'lll give it a go, cheers.


Thing is, ive been running the exact same system config for a couple of years and only started getting crashes since the last couple of versions, thats why i suspected reaper.

Who knows though, still could be faulty hardware but nothing else crashes so???
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Old 07-30-2009, 11:36 PM   #40
manning1
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Billoon
its an important run time dll.
you must check that its on your system.
it might be that somehow its become deleted.
thats all i can think of.
heres a test to run...
tell me if windows media player works or if you get the same
error message.
google that dll name and youll see lots of
threads bout causes etc. often a corruption or its missing
cos some program inadvertently deleted it.
by any chance did you recently do any deleting or disk cleanups ??
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