Old 03-28-2010, 04:14 PM   #1
reaperdeeper
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Default ReaInsert needs to grow up !!!!

Ok, imagine this studio would use Reaper. You think they would be happy with Reainsert.....??? I dont think so...





I am using a lot of outboard stuff (comps, eq, fx...) and Reainsert is really hard to work with.
Its always out of sync when moving the cursor while playing.
And when parallel compressing for exampls, its out of sync too. Very little but its not in time 100%.
I would love to see some improvements in that direction. Its been asked many times b4 but nobody seems to care...

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Old 03-28-2010, 04:38 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by reaperdeeper View Post
Ok, imagine this studio would use Reaper. You think they would be happy with Reainsert.....??? I dont think so...





I am using a lot of outboard stuff (comps, eq, fx...) and Reainsert is really hard to work with.
Its always out of sync when moving the cursor while playing.
And when parallel compressing for exampls, its out of sync too. Very little but its not in time 100%.
I would love to see some improvements in that direction. Its been asked many times b4 but nobody seems to care...
Is that your studio (or where you work)? If so then I am totally jealous.
I am all for improvements to reainsert, eventhough I only use it for my hardware synths or when I'm using rearoute for softsynths that don't work well with reaper. I don't know how the other daws work but I can attest that reainsert works alot better than Sonar's version (I could never get that to work for me at all).
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by reaperdeeper View Post
..Its been asked many times b4 but nobody seems to care...
im lazy to collect the threads about it.. there are a few, and they are growing these days.

i have a few outboards and such and i agree, ReaInsert needs some love. lots of love.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:13 PM   #4
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that is a very pretty studio.

i've been mucking about with some outboard - reainsert seems to work pretty well here, sync-wise, but i can see how it'd be a nightmare with a lot of outboard.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:59 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by reaperdeeper View Post
Ok, imagine this studio would use Reaper. You think they would be happy with Reainsert.....??? I dont think so...





I am using a lot of outboard stuff (comps, eq, fx...) and Reainsert is really hard to work with.
Its always out of sync when moving the cursor while playing.
And when parallel compressing for exampls, its out of sync too. Very little but its not in time 100%.
I would love to see some improvements in that direction. Its been asked many times b4 but nobody seems to care...

My studio looks about the same... minus the racks.
This seems to be a nice place to work at.

On the serious side. You're right, Reainsert needs a bit of polishing...

I've had sync pb before with it as well. Particularly when using hardware compressors and/or reverbs.

I just have 2 outboard compressors and 2 reverbs and a couple of synth's.

My preamps and eq's are the ones on my Neve console.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:34 AM   #6
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I don't know how the other daws work...
I don't like Pro Tools at all. But I do have an HD rig, which I use alongside Logic 9 (and Reaper) most of the time.

I have to...

Logic 9.1.1, and PT 8's strong points are that they're rock f*** solid on all counts. Especially PT HD

I like Logic a lot. It's so easy with midi. A real dream. I hope Reaper will be as strong with midi as Logic is.
I don't mean to be condescending at all. On the contrary. My remarks are rather, I hope, constructive.

In a money making studio, you have to work with a DAW that does the job without a glitch.
You can't afford to do otherwise, even if you don't like it. Business is business....

It's very nice to want to go fast and implement new features and functionalities.
But it's also a good thing to strengthen what is already there and turn it into a stronghold.

Am I patronizing?? Dam***, I am !!!!

Sorry.

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Old 03-29-2010, 01:58 AM   #7
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Nooo , this is not my studio!!! I would die to have all that stuff...
It is just an example for reaper (reainsert) when touching the pro level.
There is still plenty of work for cockos.

Outboard implementation is really not happening at the moment in reaper.
maybe with 1 or 2 instances. But when getting serious it is a nightmare.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaperdeeper View Post
It is just an example for reaper (reainsert) when touching the pro level.
There is still plenty of work for cockos.

Outboard implementation is really not happening at the moment in reaper.
maybe with 1 or 2 instances. But when getting serious it is a nightmare.
I have to agree ....

Reaper is a very nice and powerful DAW for a home studio. Sorry guys (devotees) ... I am, BTW, but not professionally, yet.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:48 AM   #9
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posting pictures of my studio is a copy right infringement!!!

please remove the pics & refrain from using them again! or you will be hearing from my solicitor!!


lol
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:31 AM   #10
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As far as sync on parallel processing goes I've been pretty successful in the past. Once the value is correct, everything's in sample-sync.
The biggest problems I encountered were actually related to crappy interface hardware/drivers. Once I had to do a mixdown with external inserts on a M-Audio ProFire 2626 - and this crappy thing changed its roundtrip latency everytime I re-initialized the driver (= restart reaper the following day etc.). Not to speak about chaotic random latency values when changing buffer size.

So all I could wish for is a "detect latencies on every instance at the same time" button, similar to Reaverb with its Max FFT "set all" button.
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:41 AM   #11
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Default Reainsert issues

Yes, please.

Reainsert is an amazing feature, but does need some attention. If we could help the devs by identifying what the priorities are as we see them that might be a good way to go. There are many threads, but the info isn't all in one place. So, here goes:

I attempt to "use" it regularly -- here is my hit list:

1) Apply Tiny Fade to reainsert playback.
Everytime you start/stop and have a reverb connected it goes WHACKK!!! Not good if you're trying to laydown reverb for specific section - you always have to start early.

2) Compatability/stability

- If you need more than a few, things start to get a bit problematic -- playback doesn't start correctly, and when it does I get glitches and dropouts.

- Using Reainsert has some issues with other plugins downstream. (NB: This could just be me). Things on my system start glitching and popping whenever I insert a TC electronic Powercore plugin elsewhere in the same chain as reainsert. Really wierd.

3) Strange latency drift things

For example, if you loop round a section with a reainsert on, you get some really crazy things happening to the latency. Not good. Everything gets out of time on the reainsert channels. You need to restart playback to get it all going again.

Thanks very much team if you could find some time to have a look at this it will be super appreciated.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by griz lee View Post
Yes, please.

Reainsert is an amazing feature, but does need some attention. If we could help the devs by identifying what the priorities are as we see them that might be a good way to go. There are many threads, but the info isn't all in one place. So, here goes:

I attempt to "use" it regularly -- here is my hit list:

1) Apply Tiny Fade to reainsert playback.
Everytime you start/stop and have a reverb connected it goes WHACKK!!! Not good if you're trying to laydown reverb for specific section - you always have to start early.

2) Compatability/stability

- If you need more than a few, things start to get a bit problematic -- playback doesn't start correctly, and when it does I get glitches and dropouts.

- Using Reainsert has some issues with other plugins downstream. (NB: This could just be me). Things on my system start glitching and popping whenever I insert a TC electronic Powercore plugin elsewhere in the same chain as reainsert. Really wierd.

3) Strange latency drift things

For example, if you loop round a section with a reainsert on, you get some really crazy things happening to the latency. Not good. Everything gets out of time on the reainsert channels. You need to restart playback to get it all going again.

Thanks very much team if you could find some time to have a look at this it will be super appreciated.

All above confirmed - but no TC Powercore here. I got UAD and have the same prob...
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by fuseburn View Post
As far as sync on parallel processing goes I've been pretty successful in the past. Once the value is correct, everything's in sample-sync.
The biggest problems I encountered were actually related to crappy interface hardware/drivers. Once I had to do a mixdown with external inserts on a M-Audio ProFire 2626 - and this crappy thing changed its roundtrip latency everytime I re-initialized the driver (= restart reaper the following day etc.). Not to speak about chaotic random latency values when changing buffer size.

So all I could wish for is a "detect latencies on every instance at the same time" button, similar to Reaverb with its Max FFT "set all" button.
I have Rme HDSP 9652 - these have maybe the best drivers in the market.
Converters are RME ADI 8 DS.
This is not a driver or converter problem.

To the parallel comp. Values are correct of course, but i never get 100% sync. Need to record and adjust it manually afterwards. Normally reainsert is a tiny bit behind the original.

So, i just tried in good ol Cubase. - F4 - External FX.
Till now seems to work perfect. I will try a bit more and let you know....
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:15 AM   #14
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ermmmm... NITPICKS???????

Must be a joke i hope.

Seems the moderator has no outboard.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:17 PM   #15
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Yep, confirmed here
sync issues,
and also rendering through "render selected track to stem" in TCP is not perfectly in sync, and sometimes completely out of sync!
I have a Lynx2 + aurora converters, it worked nice in CubaseSX3 with "external effect" plug.
reainsert needs some love!!!
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:19 PM   #16
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i love reainsert in theory but always end up just arming a new track to record the outputs of my hardware compressors and eqs, seems to be less fuss and no issues when starting and stopping the project i am using motu828mk3 pretty good drivers (older faster version) i have had no lck parallel processing with reainsert as moving the wet dry knob causes phasing and glitching, is there actually a difference to what reainsert does as opposed to arming a new track and recording the output?

it would be great to be able to use reainsert like it is intended.

cheers
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:27 AM   #17
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This issue doesn't affect me at all (no outboard gear), but I think it's important and doesn't belong in a 'nitpicks' forum.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:02 AM   #18
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I know I've started or participated in at least 4 Reainsert threads in the past 3 months now. To see this thread dropped into the "nitpicks" folder really pisses me off.

The whole reason I just came to the forum was to say that ReaInsert is behaving more poorly now in 3.4 than it did in the previous release.

"Hey we have this great feature...But it doesn't work too well so don't expect much. Any complaint you have about it's functionality is really just background noise to us. But please...Forget about that and just enjoy how awesome we are."

It's pretty frustrating. I had to kill the Reaper process on my machine at least a dozen times yesterday because the damn thing HUNG!!! It only hangs when I use Reainsert.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:11 AM   #19
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To be constructive...

I don't think the "auto-pinger" is such a good idea. While I agree that it would nice to not have to think about it...I think in practical use...It's just not feasible.

For one...If you insert any dynamics or time-based processor and perform a ping without it being bypassed, you will most likely have issues with sync. I always bypass my hardware before I perform a ping, and when playback works (ie. no [Buffering] or glitch-ness) it is always in sync (even with parallel compression). This might work okay with hardware EQ's...But I tend to not risk it. Bypass, ping, forget about it.

My system runs at the same sample rate and same buffer size always. Even though I have three different AD/DA boxes, the sync settings are consistent for each box. Therefore I have ReaInsert presets for using each hardware output. This works great as I don't have to mess around with anything when I want to use my hardware.

I just wish ReaInsert wouldn't cause Reaper to lose it's mind.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:56 PM   #20
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I NEED this to work! I bought Reaper for mixing, part of a hybrid set up, hardware eq and comps and analog summing. Inserting even 2 EQs on to tracks and the sync gets lost after one pass. Terrible.

So, Cockos, lets get this sorted please!
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:22 PM   #21
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It seems there is no way to have 4 eqs inserted on tracks, always plays completely out of sync. With 2 eqs it sometimes works ok, for 2 or 3 passes at a time. Very frustrating.
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:55 PM   #22
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so, is this still a bloody "nit pick" ???

i have a very large mixing project this month, all tracked to REAPER and I will have 10 hardware units I will need to insert to mix. Is REAPER going to once again force me to consolidate/export to C5 to mix the damn thing??

i'll tell ya, the ONLY reason i track to reaper these days is because of steiny's sh1tty i/o code with C5 and macs -no probs on PC's i've tried- but on mac, the code blows. i can't hold a 64 sample buffer without pops cliks on a very powerful mac where i can effortlessly hold a 32 sample buffer in reap.if not for this latency problem tracking, i'd probably never use reaper in the studio and just continue to use it on my (non mac) laptop.

this is not a nit pick and it's plain rude to have treated this concern as such
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:13 PM   #23
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It's unfortunate to read these threads about ReaInsert being buggy.

I have a rack of comp's and eq's that I use for tracking, but haven't used them for mixing yet (too lazy and broke to buy and wire up another patchbay).

I was planning on it, but it's probably not worth the effort, eh?

More than two tracks and it starts getting weird? Seriously?!?
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:46 AM   #24
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so, is this still a bloody "nit pick" ???

i have a very large mixing project this month, all tracked to REAPER and I will have 10 hardware units I will need to insert to mix. Is REAPER going to once again force me to consolidate/export to C5 to mix the damn thing??

i'll tell ya, the ONLY reason i track to reaper these days is because of steiny's sh1tty i/o code with C5 and macs -no probs on PC's i've tried- but on mac, the code blows. i can't hold a 64 sample buffer without pops cliks on a very powerful mac where i can effortlessly hold a 32 sample buffer in reap.if not for this latency problem tracking, i'd probably never use reaper in the studio and just continue to use it on my (non mac) laptop.

this is not a nit pick and it's plain rude to have treated this concern as such
Apparently Cubase 5.5 has sorted out a lot of the poor multi-core/low-latency performance issues on the Mac. Time will tell.

I find it ironic that Reaper's debut on the front cover of Sound on Sound was for a feature on the integration of hardware and software in a DAW, considering the ReaInsert issues. I know Mike Senior has a hard-on for Reaper, but they should have chosen the feature more carefully to have it on the front page.

In defence of Cockos though, I don't think they moved this thread into here and they worked hard on getting Rewire sorted out in the last release or two so maybe they'll do a similar brainstorming soon with hardware integration.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:32 PM   #25
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Apparently Cubase 5.5 has sorted out a lot of the poor multi-core/low-latency performance issues on the Mac. Time will tell.
thanks for the heads up. I honestly haven't checked for new updates for C5 in quite some time but will when i'm in the studio tomorrow. if the poor performance issue has been corrected, i'll simply go back to C5 for everything, and maybe my concern with reainsert will be moot; well,for now at least.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:40 AM   #26
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Hmm... I just tried ReaInsert for the first time.

Coming from PTLE / ATA this seems very good - I only have one hardware delay as a bass flanger on my 002R test setup for now. But ping is consistent and doesn´t drift when compared to the "dry" copy. 1024 buffer.

And I figured it out right away, no brain scratching.

I´ll grab some more hardware and see how it goes. The only problem is, I got all this in my living room for now. Even the PC is a test build, case still open...

EDIT: Ok now I put a stereo reverb in a dupe snare channel. Still in sync.


I have no words to describe my happiness over plugin ADC. Three bass tracks ( two DI:s and a miked one ) and 14 tracks of processed / replaced drums... all in sync.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:19 AM   #27
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I'm worried - I'm trying to migrate from Sonar 8.5.3 and if this feature does not work I cant keep moving forward. As I get set up hardware will figure prominently and I will not mix without it...

might be a deal killer ....Sonar has it's problems for sure but External inserts has worked well for me....
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:19 PM   #28
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i bought into reaper not just because of it's unique features, namely routing, but also based on the mission statement. i loved the anti-big corp vibe and that it was created by a bunch of hipsters.

my opinion has changed. there has been ZERO concern about this issue with the devs and they don't even respond. honestly, it's like dealing with steiny all over again, and those guys are pr1cks.

if cb5 ever got their i/o code together and was as efficient, or near as efficient as reap, i'd drop reap in a new york minute because steiny has done a great job integrating hardware. but alas, i'm forced to track to reap, because steiny suck in their own way, consolidate and mix in cubendo, because they don't suck in the same way,so i can use the 10's of thousands of dollars of hardware we've invested in.

there's been how many updates since i first brought this whole ReaPing nonsense up? what, at least 4?? I haven't been counting ..nope, the dev's aren't concerned at all. not even enough to give us a global reaping at least! that i could live with. but when you have 5-6 pieces of hardware strapped, it just isn't feasible.

until this gets resolved, reaper will still be a hobbyiest daw as far as i'm concerned as most pro's use hardware.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:26 PM   #29
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I'm worried - I'm trying to migrate from Sonar 8.5.3 and if this feature does not work.
I agree, I never got it working in sonar not even with one single piece of hardware, but in reaper I'm able to get atleast 3 pieces of hardware gear to work with no problem.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:35 PM   #30
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The devs here are normally pretty transparent and are probably just dealing with it behind the scenes, it's probably a tricky situation.

I too would love to see this fixed as I have people who have lots of out board who at some point might try Reaper and this will not help if it's still broken

BUT, I will defend the devs and say that "pros" using hardware is not really a very accurate argument and seems a little desperate to me.

There are plenty of people making good money out of DAWS without outboard at all.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #31
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BUT, I will defend the devs and say that "pros" using hardware is not really a very accurate argument and seems a little desperate to me.

There are plenty of people making good money out of DAWS without outboard at all.
not what i said

Quote:
Originally Posted by w.caslighter View Post
most pro's use hardware.
while obviously there are many `pros`that are full itb (especially in the post field) i know not of one single pro studio where i am doing audio for musicians that doesn`t have hardware.not a single one. i guess this varies region to region but i can only comment on mine.
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Old 12-06-2010, 04:45 AM   #32
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I cheched the changelog, not a mention of reainsert since :

v2.52 - October 12 2008

so yes. reainsert needs love. hopefully 4.0
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:52 AM   #33
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v4 (alpha) is here, no ReaInsert love


yet.


:I
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #34
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v4 (alpha) is here, no ReaInsert love


yet.


:I
... unfortunate ...
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:10 PM   #35
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This does worry me a bit. I plan on some outboard purchases late next year and I really would like to know the future of ReaInsert.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:58 PM   #36
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still no news, huh?
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:32 AM   #37
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Just another vote here for reainsert improvements. Im spending more and more on hardware. More hardware eq's and comps. Being able to get ultra tight multi-channel reainserts working. Regardless of buffer size change would ve terrific.

My main current concern is the auto-ping all reainsert instances button. Quality control and workflow speed up. This would ensure parrallel compression would work perfectly.

If reaimsert was just flawless, id be over the moon!
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:30 AM   #38
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i've experienced many dropouts issues. it might be related to my hardware driver but there is a much higher probability that dropouts occur when there is a crossfade on the track on which ReaInsert is loaded.

wouldn't that mean that HDD behaviour might be involved here? when glueing the tracks, it works much better.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:27 PM   #39
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First time messing with ReaInsert today (on folder tracks)...and I had many of the issues reported in this thread; timing was odd, and reported latency floated around.

Also, the latency auto-detect doesn't work when a compressor has been inserted. I figure I'll just detect it via a loopback and see what it says. I might have to determine the #'s manually.

Cheers

Kris
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:50 PM   #40
skratch_73
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Hey everyone, I have only used ReaInsert once. Didn't have any sync issues to speak of. I mainly just route things around(In's, Out's). I have a G5 PPC 2.3 Dual with 2 M-Audio 1010lt cards, and this set up has yet to fail me. I may have to use ReaInsert a bit more to see if I have these problems as well. It would be nice to not use so many in's and out's. .
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