Old 03-10-2011, 02:24 AM   #41
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after messing around with the anticipative fx processing parameter (disabling it, actually, as i couldn't see any improvement when raising the value), i didn't experience any glitch...
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:03 AM   #42
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At the beginning of reaper, I had a rack of junk like that first pic. It was a big reason for pushing for ReaInsert in the first place. I only ended up testing it a few times before all that gear went back into mobile racks or different studio setups. I don't remember ever having massive problems with it, but I found the convenience of in the box effects to outweigh the desire to put my hands on real stuff anymore.

Is it drifting during playback, or is it mostly making trouble when seeking?
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:54 AM   #43
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Would be interesting to see where we are with this on V4

Pipeline - my issues were out of sync starts among others.. i must also add that I was using UAD 1 not 2 then

This is really the only thing I think the others have an advantage over Reaper...if this gets tightened up....
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:30 AM   #44
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I would love some answers too.

I was using a stereo comp (Overstayer VCA) on something the other day and I stopped Reaper then hit play again and it was out of sync.
Hit stop re ping it and it was fine..

Then I had a distressor on a single drum track like a snare.. Where it can get ugly because of the phase of the other 12 mics on the kit..
It was fine.. doesn't seem to drift. But it will just loose sync like video frames jumping type of thing. Hit stop and sometimes just hitting play is ok.
Other times I have to re-ping.

Now I own a PT TDM system from back in the day.. It didn't have dly comp on the old Mix Systems.. So you had to move things like 80samples. But once you did it never failed.
Then when I went to Cubase.. The inserts worked. Just really hate how you have to use inserts in Cubase..

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Reaper.. Just wish the insert thing was more stable.
It's like when I hit play to print a mix..My fingers are always crossed that nothing will go wrong.. Then I have to listen the the printed mix to make sure it didn't mess up before I email a copy for a client to check out.

Please look into it...
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:29 AM   #45
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tried reainsert today and got the same problem my outboard was out of sync. reaper is great but come on guys fix this please !!!
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:38 AM   #46
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Please fix. I did not know I was going to be wasting a few days trying to get this working smoothly only to not be able to.
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:39 AM   #47
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Quote:
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Please fix. I did not know I was going to be wasting a few days trying to get this working smoothly only to not be able to.
Is it not working at all for you?
I can use it.. It's just goes out of sync once in a while when I hit stop then start again.. Never while playing audio.. Like it doesn't drift.

Just wondering what trouble you're having.

I hope they fix it.. All the hype I spread about Reaper to guys I know..
This would be a deal breaker for some of them for sure.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:22 PM   #48
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So far I haven't had an issue. Everything is time aligned & staying in sync. FYI - I never change buffer settings.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:32 AM   #49
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I haven't had any problems with sync unless trying to use it on a live input.

The "bug" I noticed today is that the preset system (within the plugin) doesn't work right.

Let's say I set the plugin to send out software return 5 on left side and None on right side. Return Left set to Analog 5.

I save this preset as space echo.

Make another patch, save then reload the space echo patch and the i/o doesn't change. That saves no time!

Solution: Fix internal plugin preset system OR remove it in favor of the other preset options.

A "mono sum" button for the input would be helpful too IMO.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:32 AM   #50
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Ok..here we are again.

So last night I'm mixing..trying to use Reainsert.. Now in the past I could use it fine. If i want to compress a bass seems sort of ok.

But last night I'm putting a stereo comp on a drum buss and that buss was going to another output buss (for analog summing) and a few drums (kick,snare little overhead) were going to another buss for parallel comp.

This is where it really fails.. The fact the source is routed a few different directions and Reainsert and Reaper can't combine all these without crazy phasing..

And for the first time last night..If I stopped then started it would loose sync. Or if I bypassed the Reainsert then turned it back on it would crackle..
Every time I hit ping I got a different calculation..

very weird and un-useable.. Perfect since I just bought a hand full of those recall plugins... boo!!!
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:45 PM   #51
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Im glad to know its not me but very sad to find out its reaper!!!

the sync is always a little off?

using Prism Orpheus here.
Please guys make it work right, it is not accurate and I need it to be
to use reaper lots of outboard.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:27 AM   #52
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+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Man would i love to be able to use outboard on my setup.
Tried a few times, but ended up realising that it will never work.
Latency, strange phasing, just not working at all.

Went to reaper cause this daw kick some serious ass.
But, sadly, thinking of kicking it and finding something that works with outboard instead. Been on the reaperwagon since 2.5
Well, all days has an end!
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:44 PM   #53
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i have also been with reaper from the 2.0's but can't see continuing to buy a new version that does not have PDC and Hardware inserts, too important.

Yet I love Reaper its my favorite DAW please guys help out those with hardware use this fantastic program
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #54
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Are you pinging the outboard gear while bypassed? If not, you should be.

Have you tried manually adjusting the offset? See the preferences.

Are you using Reainsert on record enabled tracks? If so, PDC would be disabled.

I haven't tested extensively but I've never run into phase problems.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:21 AM   #55
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As soon as you move the wet/dry to adjust, all hell breaks loose. Try adjusting wet/dry to 50%, re ping and see what you get. All out of phase...back to 100% wet, reping, all is good. It needs more attention. A similar thread came up recently in another forum and it brought back memories of wanting this issue resolved some time ago. Too bad as yes, I use alot of outboard. Works without a hitch in Nuendo.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #56
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Quote:
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As soon as you move the wet/dry to adjust, all hell breaks loose. Try adjusting wet/dry to 50%, re ping and see what you get. All out of phase...back to 100% wet, reping, all is good. It needs more attention. A similar thread came up recently in another forum and it brought back memories of wanting this issue resolved some time ago. Too bad as yes, I use alot of outboard. Works without a hitch in Nuendo.
Huh? What are you expecting to happen when you mix the original audio with the audio going twice through your audio driver and interface and being possibly delayed further by the outboard itself? The wet/dry knob has of course to be 100% wet with ReaInsert. Otherwise it wouldn't even need to ping for latency.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:40 AM   #57
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I don't use reainsert anymore...not really usable for me
I use my hardware by monitoring/recording on new tracks
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #58
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@Gofer:

I might be off base here (and pardon if I am) but I thought that kind of thing actually streams the audio being sent out early so that everything coming back into the mixer would be in time.

I mean, (in my thinking anyway) you should be able to do a wet/dry mix on a hardware insert return (mixing the return signal with the original) much the same as you should be able to send/return to a FX return bus and have it aligned with the original track if you go fully wet on the external FX box. I thought the mix happens on the way back, after it's already back in the DAW.

That would probably be a good way to check sync, send to a comp or something and return on another bus and mix it with the original. If they're not in time, something is wrong. The mix knob on the return path should be doing the same.

That might all be wrong thinking though. Dunno.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #59
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Actually I think that it works just like normal PDC in that all other tracks are delayed for the needed amount, otherwise Reainsert can't work with a realtime live input. But I don't know really. Haven't needed ReaInsert for maybe two years - and back then it was more like toying around (including Logic plugins and instruments into some projects because I felt homesick - It worked astonishingly well, not sample accurate but good enough for me as long as I didn't loop in Reaper...)

But that's irrelevant for this question. What it boils down to is that the material that goes into ReaInsert from Reaper is earlier than the material that comes back from the outside, so that the material that comes back has a chance to be (ideally) in time with the rest of the project.

If you now use the wet/dry knob what you do is mix the part that's early (dry) with the part that's in time (wet). They just can't be synchronous (no flux capacitor in ReaInsert ).

What you of course can do is have the same audio on another track and check that against the audio that comes back via the ReaInsert. That's most probably how the people in this thread measure how good (or rather how not so good) it syncs.

At least that's my understanding of things...

Last edited by gofer; 03-05-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:32 PM   #60
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Well here is my example one second I autodetect and get 1271 samples delayed the next 1302, now nothing has changed both can't be correct

da/ad should be a fixed value.

something is wrong there alone now the suggestion that I can manual chnge the number sure....but then why use reainsert?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Huh? What are you expecting to happen when you mix the original audio with the audio going twice through your audio driver and interface and being possibly delayed further by the outboard itself? The wet/dry knob has of course to be 100% wet with ReaInsert. Otherwise it wouldn't even need to ping for latency.
So you are saying that reainsert has to be set to 100% wet when using outboard gear like a verb or comp, otherwise , of course it doesn't work? Actually, it should first be set to 100% dry, then you autodetect, then set it back to 100% or any combination of the wet/dry stream.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:05 AM   #62
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Re-reading my post (the one you quoted), I feel very uncomfortable with the way I phrased it and apologize because it really sounds not nice. I explain how I think it works a bit later and can assure you that I'll be happy if I'm wrong. But I'd like to know how it's done, it sounds like warping space/time to me.

Back when I last toyed around with it there wasn't even a wet/dry knob on FX window headers, so I still don't think that it needs to be dry when pinging. Technically it shouldn't matter for the ping procedure, because the signals get mixed at the output of the plugin so that the ping detection shouldn't be affected.
For parallel FX, bus style, back then you'd either put ReaInsert on a bus in Reaper or work around with the wet/dry on the outboard.



Wait...

Having said that it occurres to me, maybe you're talking about wet/dry adjustment on the outboard device to begin with? Then we have a typical case of misunderstanding and a "duh!" on my side. That should totally be dry for the ping, no argument about it. Can't be otherwise, because you'd be processing the ping signal making it hard to detect.

Again, sorry for my tone in that reply it really comes across the wrong way.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:50 AM   #63
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doing some testing in my underwear tonight.

Round 1 Dry loopback test

https://skitch.com/e-theaudiogeek/88...sert-weirdness

Reainsert was pinging 341 samples consistently and internal routing to a new track, recording output non-compensated was result in 1 sample late.

Round 2 folder track

https://skitch.com/e-theaudiogeek/88...ainsert-test-2

again only one sample off for the track with ReaInsert.

In mono there is a high degree of cancellation when one side is flipped.
Adding 1 more sample improves this further but I wasn't able to get complete null.

Tests done on an iMac with Profire 2626. OSX Lion, latest Reaper 32-bit
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:07 AM   #64
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Quote:
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... recording output non-compensated ...
What's the result if you "render 1x online"?
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:23 AM   #65
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Quote:
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What's the result if you "render 1x online"?
I wasn't rendering anything, just recording to new tracks.

That's definitely a part of the process I'll need to test though. As well as with other plugins causing latency.

I forgot to mention, the test was a dry loop, just a cable from output to input, no outboard processor.

I want to go though this step by step and then we can find where the problem is, with the plugin, with delay compensation, with rendering, user error.

I assume everyone should be able to duplicate these results so far on their systems.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:36 AM   #66
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Quote:
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What's the result if you "render 1x online"?
https://skitch.com/e-theaudiogeek/88...-online-render

with the absolute most basic test it was perfect adding +1 to the reainsert ping.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:23 AM   #67
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Really? Does that picture look like 1 sample delay to you? I'd say, it's either less than one sample – and thus interpolated – or a side effect of the analog stage, no!?
But more important: how does it sound? I have to admit, I use ReaInsert regularly on multitrack drum recordings, and while I'm pretty sensitive when it comes to phase issues, I never noticed any serious lag. Sometimes I even print the mix in realtime, without rendering beforehand...

Nevertheless I would want a more reliable tool, too!!
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #68
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Quote:
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Really? Does that picture look like 1 sample delay to you? I'd say, it's either less than one sample – and thus interpolated – or a side effect of the analog stage, no!?
But more important: how does it sound? I have to admit, I use ReaInsert regularly on multitrack drum recordings, and while I'm pretty sensitive when it comes to phase issues, I never noticed any serious lag. Sometimes I even print the mix in realtime, without rendering beforehand...

Nevertheless I would want a more reliable tool, too!!
I agree, it's likely less than 1 sample off. I attempted at 88.2 and it was still ~1 sample. 1 sample is the smallest measurement unit we have.

I haven't had problems with ReaInsert unless it was used on monitor enabled tracks. (IIRC)
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #69
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I'm probably not understanding the whole concept of Reainsert. I pretty much work inside the box. But I'm trying to envision it. Say I had an outboard compressor. And let's say I already have a vocal track in the box. At what point is Reainsert necessary? I feel like I would just hit play, route an output to the compressor, and the output of the compressor back into a new track in Reaper. Where's the latency in all this? I appreciate any clarity you guys can lend!

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #70
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I'm probably not understanding the whole concept of Reainsert. I pretty much work inside the box. But I'm trying to envision it. Say I had an outboard compressor. And let's say I already have a vocal track in the box. At what point is Reainsert necessary? I feel like I would just hit play, route an output to the compressor, and the output of the compressor back into a new track in Reaper. Where's the latency in all this? I appreciate any clarity you guys can lend!

~Quest~
Reainsert keeps it on the same track just like a plugin.
There's latency because it has to go through the converters. Latency is compensated by delaying the start of playback of the other tracks.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:18 PM   #71
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Correct! and if you did do the go out into comp back in on another track there is def latency. That's the reason for plugin ideas (notice I said idea) for ReaInsert. You click the ping button and it quickly does the math.

Well it should..but doesn't work perfectly yet.. I hate saying this and have to put my head down when I do.. but this is the one spot where Cubase got it right over Reaper (one spot i'll give them that) For now!! let's say..I hope.

I always liked the way Pro Tools went about doing it and Reaper is very close to the layout..And I hate how Cubase did it layout wise. But Cubase got the timing right once you ping and it never messed up on any mix I did..

of course the App itself shit the bed more then a few times but the ping/insert worked (figures).. I really keep my fingers crossed on this. I know it's not a big deal to some. Some guys worry more about midi stuff..I get we all work different. But man would this complete the package for me if ReaInsert worked as it should..
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:53 AM   #72
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Ok, I see what Reainsert does now. Now that I know, it makes me want to play around with some outboard gear! I do hope the devs fix it if it really is that broke.

Another question... If Reainsert makes your outboard gear like a plugin, how do you guys go about remembering the setting on your gear? I almost dont like that you cant dial the knobs back to an EXACT place. This may be totally my bias and preference of work, but I like the total control in the box and exact recall in the box. Whats you guys' work flow / solution when loading up older projects with Reainsert and analog gear?

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Old 03-09-2012, 06:21 AM   #73
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If you look at logic 9.02 and pro tools native 9 on, they both have global parameters for ADC Automatic Delay Compensation, which being automatic is supposedly .......automatic.
Its not digi interfaces do report via midi to
for their I/o latency but not 3rd party.

Now what is cool about what they have done is that you can set in preferences per track or stereo pair predefined latency compensation for hatdware inserts.

Reaper should have this capabilty, as far as workflow goes I dont want to have to fidfle with Reainsert I want automatic delay compensation, of course including hardware !
As long as I am recording ill be using hardware.

I do hope this actually gets addressed its make or break for me. Reaper is not keeping up with the competition on this one.

Please guys!
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:32 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith View Post
Ok, I see what Reainsert does now. Now that I know, it makes me want to play around with some outboard gear! I do hope the devs fix it if it really is that broke.

Another question... If Reainsert makes your outboard gear like a plugin, how do you guys go about remembering the setting on your gear? I almost dont like that you cant dial the knobs back to an EXACT place. This may be totally my bias and preference of work, but I like the total control in the box and exact recall in the box. Whats you guys' work flow / solution when loading up older projects with Reainsert and analog gear?

~Quest~
You do like me and others have done for years..before there even was DAW's pen and paper. I have track sheets for all my gear. and the gear that I either couldn't find track sheets for or didn't like the ones I found I had a buddy make some for me (graphics guy much better then me).
I use those..and I do have a few of the recall plugins I bought..
But those only cover a few pieces of gear he did.. I have other gear that I have to use the track sheets since there is no recall plugin.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:54 PM   #75
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this reainsert syncro issue could be related to a more global issue:
latency compensation isn't perfect even when recording tracks.
I've noticed sometimes it's one sample ahead, sometimes perfect timing...

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the "snap to sample" preference...
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:21 AM   #76
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EpicSounds and FaderJockey,

I am watching this thread closely. Reaper has been getting closer to what I need, with time. This is the MAIN feature I absolutely need to work reliably, that reaper did not seem to have worked out.

If any of you guys can demonstrate how there is a reliable way to use this feature, for material with fast attack times, then I should be able to use reaper for mixing. My biggest concern is when people have reported reainsert values changing randomly etc.

At any rate, I have downloaded the reaper demo and will be checking reainsert out at some point, possibly soon
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:49 AM   #77
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Quote:
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EpicSounds and FaderJockey,

I am watching this thread closely. Reaper has been getting closer to what I need, with time. This is the MAIN feature I absolutely need to work reliably, that reaper did not seem to have worked out.

If any of you guys can demonstrate how there is a reliable way to use this feature, for material with fast attack times, then I should be able to use reaper for mixing. My biggest concern is when people have reported reainsert values changing randomly etc.

At any rate, I have downloaded the reaper demo and will be checking reainsert out at some point, possibly soon
I don't know about others mine doesn't change if it did..I'd go crazy and still be in Cubase..with their stupid crashes.

But I set my (RME) buffer to 256 or 512 (lately bigger mixes)..And I don't change it while mixing that is KEY!

I said in another post a problem I found (my own stupid error) don't try pinging with a ton of compression on a comp because that would be the same as a verb.. it will delay the ping of course.
What I found works (for me best).. I use a TT patchbay.
I'm using a RME digiface tied to a SSL Alpha Link..just so you know what i'm using.

So I have the RME set to let's say 512 buffer.
Lets' say I want a parallel crush buss for drums. I'll pick something like outputs 11/12 then patch them right back into 11/12 so it's just a loop of the outs of the SSL going to the ins on the SSL. So just to TT patch cables.

I'll go to my crush buss insert the ReaInsert plugin choose those 11/12 for input and output.. Turn my monitors down and hit ping. I'll see a number that it calculates. Then I'll unpatch those TT cables. I'll then patch 11/12 SSL out to my stereo comps inputs then the comps outputs back to patchbays 11/12 SSL. Turn monitors up and hit play with drums soloed.

I'll slowly bring up my crush buss and reach over and tweak the hardware.
All is good and sounds great!!

NOW!! this is the one part that bugs me..But for now I deal with it until it's fixed. All that works I mentioned above.
But if I hit solo on the crush buss i'm listening to the buss just fine and all is well and i can tweak the comp and i'm getting into the sound..
Then when I think it rocks l'll add it to the full kit..as soon as I hit solo again it's now off time of the kit.
All I have to do then is hit stop on the spacebar then hit play again and it's fine.. not a huge deal but would be much happier if that didn't happen.
So coming out of solo for some reason it doesn't recalculate correctly.

The other thing is if you do for some reason change buffer setting (why I suggest leave it be) it will go out of sync and that you will need to go back and reping everything because at a different buffer the timing is going to be longer so it has to recalculate. So that is a different thing then the solo/unsolo.

So my fixes for now.. Set buffer leave it be. (only during mixing of course)
Then ping the loop..instead of pinging through the gear itself.
And if you do solo to hear only the effected source.. Just hit stop unsolo and hit play again..
That sort of reminds me when you sometimes hit a track in the middle of a midi thing and it starts funny because it didn't see the start of that midi note if you know what I mean?
So that's what I do for know..
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:06 PM   #78
jrides
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That doesn't sound too horrible. I will be using EQ and Compression OTB. Hopefully EQ wil be just as useable with your workaroundss.
It would be nice if those items did get fixed. However, I might be able to live with that until they do.

Does Reainsert have to ping? Or if you know the offset values for a particular I/O hardware combo, can you just set it as a static value for the project?
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:17 PM   #79
Faderjockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides View Post
That doesn't sound too horrible. I will be using EQ and Compression OTB. Hopefully EQ wil be just as useable with your workaroundss.
It would be nice if those items did get fixed. However, I might be able to live with that until they do.

Does Reainsert have to ping? Or if you know the offset values for a particular I/O hardware combo, can you just set it as a static value for the project?
Yes it will be fine.
I use 2 speck EQ's sometimes I like to use my Chandler LTD1 EQ on bass or vocals and it's fine..
But to be honest..I use a D-Box for summing. So if I can live wit the EQ at the end of the chain (which times that is just fine for the color)..
Then I'll just put it between the SSL and D-box and no need for reainsert.
But I do use it sometimes as an insert when I want it between to plugins.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #80
illacov
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Default ReaInsert Parallel Compression The Simple Way

So I got the work around from reading threads about PT HD and this is what I was able to come up with.

Regarding the routing: Use a PREFX send not a post fader or pre fader send, it will screw up everything.

Insert ReaInsert on the channel you want to be the WET channel (the channel that gets crushed etc). Set your inputs and outputs

Ping ReaInsert.

Now copy that instance of ReaInsert to the DRY channel. (the channel that will be the un-compressed copy). Set the inputs and outputs to a different set that are available.

DO NOT Ping ReaInsert. Repeat DO NOT ping ReaInsert.

Set your hardware compressor the way you want and adjust your levels to taste. Perfect sync, no drift as far as I can tell. No phase issues. Just tried it with a mastering session with my modded Pro VLA and it sounds really sweet.


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