Old 08-05-2010, 06:46 PM   #1
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Default Replacement Organ for NI's B4?

I've recently been having horrible problems with Reaper, Win7-64, and the B4 organ.

It causes occasional, massive problems with full-code output, explosions, etc. Of this there is no doubt. - and I was using the very last version, and not a crack.

So I went to the NI website to see what's up, and found out what you all probably already know, it's been discontinued and some crappy BS sampled-organ is their suggested "replacement."

Ughh. The B4 is the heart & soul of my live-performance rig.

--------------

I tried the GSI VB3, and Linplug's Organ3. They aren't even close.

Anything out there that sounds as good as the B4 did?
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:03 PM   #2
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note:

I would also be interested in any plugin that can JUST do a good leslie simulation, including overdrive.

I have an old Voce V5 organ module which sounds amazing, and so could run that into a Reaper track if I had to.
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:07 PM   #3
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EDIT: It's far too early in the morning for me. I instantly assumed you were looking for a pipe / church organ sampler. Derp.

----------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict View Post
Anything out there that sounds as good as the B4 did?
If you're looking for extremely comprehensive samplers, both of these come highly reccomended.

VSL's Konzerthaus Organ

or the Hauptwerk Virtual Organ

Both are around about the same price, just depends on your preference.
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:10 PM   #4
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I've read users saying this sounds good, never heard it personally...

http://www.linplug.com/Instruments/Organ_3/organ_3.htm
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:21 PM   #5
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http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1659.html

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode...s&st=f&q=organ
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:22 PM   #6
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http://www.kaosaudio.com/nubi-le-drawbar-organ-vsti/
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:30 PM   #7
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dunno, since Nubi/NubiLe/Spinner/SpinnerLe are gone...


well, actually I think I otherwise personally prefer Lightbag II, which can still be downloaded from here:

http://www.espace-cubase.org/anglais...?page=freevsti


It has lots of additional parameters hidden below the panel and so is very flexible...

Leslie-wise you could go with iSpinner instead the built-in one:

http://www.iliadisorgan.com/freeplugins.html
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:33 PM   #8
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oh, Mark beat me to it with a working link for NubiLe...
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatPsychic View Post
I've read users saying this sounds good, never heard it personally...

http://www.linplug.com/Instruments/Organ_3/organ_3.htm

if it's actual organ-sounds you're after then I think this one is not really recommendable... it's more of a synth in disguise or something....
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:48 PM   #10
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I agree, Jens.

As per my original post I already tried the Linplug Organ 3. It does a pretty cool Farfisa, but when you switch to Hammond, it still sounds like a Farfisa.

I'll check out the other recommendations tonight.

Thanks, guys.

Last edited by Cableaddict; 08-05-2010 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #11
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I tried em all and I think you'll find the VB3 is your only option if the B4 is cockahoop. I find the rest kinda meh.

Our keyboard player prefers the VB3 for live.

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Old 08-05-2010, 09:23 PM   #12
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"cockahoop?"

Never heard that one before! Sounds painful....
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:24 PM   #13
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VB3, no doubt!!!
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:36 PM   #14
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I'm running B4 II just fine using the 32-bit Reaper on my Win7 x64 system. Have you given that a try?
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:36 AM   #15
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I switched to VB3a few years ago from B4 it's a great organ


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Old 08-06-2010, 01:48 AM   #16
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Definitely GSi VB3, it actually sounds a LOT better then B4!
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:50 AM   #17
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Wow, I had tried an early version of VB3, and didn't like it.

I just ran the newest demo. It's MILES better than before. They improved the "loose, weezing, aged" feel a lot. I dunno about "better than B4," though. I LOVE that organ. Maybe I just have to weak a bit more.

Well, I'm happy.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:53 AM   #18
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I find it's 'grittier' than the B4 which is what I prefer.It sits in tracks very nicely too spend some time with it as it's got a lot of behind the scenes stuff to tweak........enjoy......


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Old 08-06-2010, 01:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg View Post
I'm running B4 II just fine using the 32-bit Reaper on my Win7 x64 system. Have you given that a try?
That's what I was doing.

Massive havoc ensued. Pulled it, & the seas were calm.
Re-installed it, and kaboom all over again.

I dunno. System dependent somehow?
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:05 AM   #20
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I've seen the same thing over the years too cable addict, wonder if it's a denormal issue? interesting they've shelved it though


MC


p.s. have you tried Mr ray and also the Roland 201 space echo? they're both very good,the space echo is very noisy though,like the real thing..you dont hear hiss much these days.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I find it's 'grittier' than the B4 which is what I prefer.
Exactly. It just has overdrive with BALLS.


And a MUCH better Leslie simulation!
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:21 AM   #22
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Well, I always sent the B4 into a bass amp (I like "Virtual Bass Amp) for more beef.

VB3 doesn't doesn't seem to sit in the mix as well as B4, or a real B3. It's too present, too pointed, though again the newest version is MUCH better in this regard than before.


The other, HUGE problem for me, unless I'm overlooking something, is that VB3 doesn't respond to my entire keyboard. The B4, and even the Linplug, both do. I like to play piano & organ together, with the organ shifted-up an octave so it matches the piano. With the VB3, this leaves 2 octaves on top with no organ.

I can't stand it. This literally makes the VB3 unusable for me.

Any idea if there's a setting for this?

Last edited by Cableaddict; 08-06-2010 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:30 AM   #23
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I think in the latest update (v1.4) VB3 lets you do this (you have to disable the Preset octave in the Global options). Albeit it will only play folded back octaves, but it will play.


Also, you have a nice amount of cabinet options in the Global options - there is NO WAY you cannot fit this sucker in the mix, you just have to play a bit with some options!
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:32 AM   #24
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check out the free vst organ on here http://krakli.com/krakli-free-synths/

i really rate it for some organ sounds, whether it can do a b4 - i dont know - but for free its worth a look...

i suggest finding a preset thats similar and having a twiddle..you seem to be able to get better sounds that way
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg View Post
I'm running B4 II just fine using the 32-bit Reaper on my Win7 x64 system. Have you given that a try?
You know, I'm REALLY glad you posted, as I thought maybe I was doing something wrong.

I am desperately trying to get B4 to work again, and have been doing some thinking / experimenting. I notice that there is a problem with B4 locating it's tonewheel data, if you move the dll's or do a custom install.

For once, I simply let the installer do what it wanted. I then had to tell the app where it's data was.
I'm wondering if this will make it run OK? I know that Reaper can be very picky about where plugins are located, when they have connected data elswhere on the drive. this will be interesting...
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I think in the latest update (v1.4) VB3 lets you do this (you have to disable the Preset octave in the Global options). Albeit it will only play folded back octaves, but it will play.
Hmm. Doesn't work here. I'm running the v 1.4 demo. If you get this to work on your system, PLEASE let me know! VB3 definitely has its own thing going, and I'd like to use it as well.

Quote:
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you have a nice amount of cabinet options in the Global options - there is NO WAY you cannot fit this sucker in the mix, you just have to play a bit with some options!
Well, no doubt I can get it better, but I can just tell already that it won't be quite the same. There's a certain "airy" magic about the real thing, that only the B4 and the Voce V5 ever really got right. (The V5 also has the balls.) The Roland hardware unit also comes close, but not as good.

Hey, I'm picky, what can I tell you? (g) I'm a Hammond player from waaaay back in the day. Used to actually lug a B3, Leslie 122, and suitcase rhodes to all my gigs.
---------

I'm also digging the "iSpin" that Jens recommended, above.
It sounds QUITE good with my V5 driving it directly. Sounds good on guitar & EP as well. - but again, I prefer "Virtual Bass Amp" as the drive factor, vs the anemic built-in distortion.
"VBA" really kicks butt.

Last edited by Cableaddict; 08-06-2010 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:11 AM   #27
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More on "Virtual Bass Amp:"

- try this with the "direct" cabinet setting, flat bass, flat treble, and a little mids pushed. Also the "deep" switch if you're into John Lord or ELP. -Then when you need a monster solo, hit the "boost" switch. Oh man ...... This thing is FAT, and it sort of "crushes in" on itself when you really hit it, like a good modified Leslie.

A cool thing about using an amp plugin after the organ, is that if you use a midi-controller to raise the volume of the organ VSTi itself, (the "swell" pedal control) instead of raising the track's fader, you then have true volume-dependant distortion. It also responds better to changes in polyphony, vs the distortion in both the B4 and the VB3.

Another cool thing is that you can still dial-in a LITTLE built-in distortion on the organ itself (B4 or VB3) so that your soft rythm comping still has some presence. - but then have the additional, volume-dependent extra distortion from the amp plugin.

It's the ever-lovin' tits.

Last edited by Cableaddict; 08-06-2010 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict
Hey, I'm picky, what can I tell you? (g) I'm a Hammond player from waaaay back in the day. Used to actually lug a B3, Leslie 122, and suitcase rhodes to all my gigs
I hear ya' -- I used to play 'em AND repair 'em.

The VB3 is the best of the current crop of plugs.

Back to the real thing though...

I have a 1970 122RV sitting about 5 feet away from me right now. That and the Hammond XK-3 (40 pounds) is about as good as it gets IMHO, unless you have an old "oiler" and can afford to replace tubes, matching transformers, keep the buss bars in good shape, etc.

I also hear you on the Rhodes -- still haven't found a good Rhodes plug.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:45 AM   #29
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Geoff, your name is suddenly familiar. You didn't by any chance run that Hammond refurb shop in the states? (Connecticut, I think?) I think the name of it was "Goff" ???

If so, I think I was a customer!

-and yeah, I forgot about the XK-3. Only played one once. IIRC, it has a phenomenal simulation of the Hammond's waterfall keyboard.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict View Post
Hmm. Doesn't work here. I'm running the v 1.4 demo. If you get this to work on your system, PLEASE let me know! VB3 definitely has its own thing going, and I'd like to use it as well.
It's already working for me! I'm running 1.4 full, paid, though

All you need to do is disable Preset Octaves in Global options, and then you can play below C2 and above C6, in folded octaves (repeats octaves).
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:51 AM   #31
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Coolness.

they must have screwed it up (or did it on purpose) in the demo.

For the money, it's a no-brainer. I'll pickup the full version tomorrow. Gotta' get some sleep right now as it's 8 am ...
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:23 AM   #32
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Conveniently a sale going on this month:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...er=asc&start=0
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:39 AM   #33
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Woah, glad you posted that, Carbon. "Key Performer" looks VERY interesting.

I wonder, when it's used as a plugin with a lot of VSTi's loaded, how things work with cpu allocation?
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:43 AM   #34
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Key Performer is nothing special, IMHO. Samples are rather bad. The only parts of it useful are Hammond engine (=VB3) and that small VA synth. And Synth1 sounds better than that anyways. Regarding CPU, it's made to play on 1 GHz netbooks and V-Machine, so get the drift


Just get VB3, forget about Key Performer, IMO that one's not really as good as the rest of his repertoire
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I also hear you on the Rhodes -- still haven't found a good Rhodes plug.
The GSi one - Mr.Ray Mark II isn't as good as the VB3 is?
I'm looking too, undecided - have never touched a real Rhodes, neither a Hammond.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:10 AM   #36
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Best Rhodes, all around, is Lounge Lizard. - but it's still not quite like the real thing (s).



Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Key Performer is nothing special, IMHO. Samples are rather bad.
Oh, I thought it was a VSTi host, in other words that it could hold & organize any VSTi's you want. (like KORE.) If not, then feh .....
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:22 AM   #37
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LL sounds somewhat plastic to me. Mr. Ray mkII is much better in that regard.


No, Key Performer is not a VSTi host.
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:43 AM   #38
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Very interesting thread for someone like me who doesn't play a Hammond, but just love it's sound as part of rock music. Particularly considering that some you seem to have lots of experience with the real thing.

How does VB3 compare to B4II cpu wise?
Can VB3 play with percussion active even when a key is already pressed (unlike the real thing)?

Yeah, I know the demo could answer this, but I hate installing/uninstalling demos. For this price I would just buy this plugin if your answers are positive.

I already have B4II, NI's Drawbar Organ and USB's Retro Organ. The latter two are sampled, but sound very good to me. Retro Organs, however, are somewhat limited, you get a number of fixed samples like 888800080 etc. The NI take on this is based on individual drawbars and a mixer in Kontakt that allows you to mix these as you would pulling drawbars.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:11 AM   #39
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Mt Ray is good but I prefer the Scarbee MK 1 samples , that's the best rhodes I've used,you do need a good keyboard controller though to get the right feel, it's available as a dedicated Kontakt Lib now.

I think Herbie Hancock uses this one



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Old 08-06-2010, 07:22 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cableaddict
Geoff, your name is suddenly familiar. You didn't by any chance run that Hammond refurb shop in the states? (Connecticut, I think?) I think the name of it was "Goff" ???
No, but I have done business with them -- great bunch of folks !
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