Old 03-23-2011, 12:03 PM   #41
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totally forgot to mention groovemonkey midi loops in my earlier post - if you really cant he arsed to program the midi and cant play it in yourself, these are a great way to make3 a foundation for a track & then tweak/add stuff.

And I would STILL come back to EZDrummer plus prolly the Nashville kits/loops addon. This is NOT Ceurntree drummin` at its finger lickemest best, it is some really exceptional straight kit sounds that complement the pop rock kit you get with EZD.

And of course EZD comes with a bunch of midi loops fills etc etc....

You could get Nashville and EZD for $tiny right now with their current sale deal.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyChris View Post
Wow! I just checked out the Jamstix demo. That's some pretty cool stuff. I think I might try it.

A couple of question for anyone w/ jamstix:

a.) does it work OK with reaper?

b.) how are the sounds? There isn't much mention of that on their web site. Are the samples good?

Thanks
It works fine with Reaper.

I use the supplied sounds and a couple of the add-on packs and love them for my material.

There's demos here,

http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3.html

down the left hand side and all the songs in my Reverbnation sig link are done with it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 02:04 PM   #43
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@ Sibben:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibben View Post
SFZ is a simple player for rgcAudio/Cakewalk's sfz-format, which is a sample playback format that uses an external text file to control how samples are triggered. It has nothing to do with drum programming per se, even if you can use it to trigger drum samples. The same way you could use ReaSamplomatic to trigger drum sounds via MIDI. It supports stuff like velocity layering and round-robin triggering which might be why someone mentioned it in regards to drum programming.

http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/article.aspx?aid=108
I found some SoundFonts for drums and down loaded them. I unzipped and opened this SFX vst and select "file" and grabbed one of the downloaded .sf2 files. I got a message that said "insuffucent Memory" or something like that. The sf2 file was 750KB. My system has 12bg of RAM. So I dont know what that means. Just more wasted time trying to figure out which way to go for decent drums.

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:00 PM   #44
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Mike, strong recommendation to go get the Jamstix demo, install it, then read the whole manual tonight. The most you'll lose is an evening.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:37 PM   #45
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I'm a Drum vsti junkie, i have

Superior drummer 2.0
Steven slate ( the no brainer one, EX ? )
Jamstix
Drumcore free
My drumset
superdrum fx
and heaps of kits built from samples in either Shortcircuit or Kontakt
and various other freebies

And my mate has both Addictive drums & BFD2, so i have pretty much tried them all.

If i had to keep just one it would be "JAMSTIX" without a doubt.

Its flexibility is unmatched really, you can do jazz, blues shuffle, country all the way through to heavy rock/metal, and it does them all pretty well, at the very least it will get you 90% there then if you need just export the midi and tweak if necessary.
The sounds are good, they sound almost unprocessed to me, which allows me to process them to suit the situation.
For $99 it the best value drum vsti out there, IMHO

Check out these videos http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_vid.html

BTW i have no affiliation with Jamstix/Rayzoon, i'm just a happy customer

Cheers
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:48 PM   #46
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Downloaded and installed Jamstix. Watched the Quickstart demo video. Picked a song, pressed the "lock" button (which I assume means Play) and noting happens. I'm not impressed so far.

Got it to crash Reaper 3 times. Reaper very very rarely ever crashes.

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:48 PM   #47
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I'm really interested in the jamstix part where you type in ICVVCCV etc... how does this work for nirvana type drums?

Because, really, I like simple beats, with a lot of guitar work for grungy stuff, Just havent really seen any grungy demos etc...

Seems very complicated, and well... I dont know. I really want something to just shoot me out a song.. I'm good at working guitar AROUND the drums.....

I mean, if i just shot out 5 songs... how close would they be to each other??

Yeah, i like those raw jamstix sounds..

~Rob.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:51 PM   #48
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Steven Slate for ready to go sounds
Addictive Drums for tweakability
Jamstix for AI.

Pete
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:52 PM   #49
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"...install it, then read the whole manual tonight...."

I dont want to read the manual. Running the demo should be easier than that for a guy with 25 years computer experience.

Have you heard of Hydrogen. It's a beta drum machine vst. Loaded with bugs. I was able to make drum tracks with that in 2 minutes. It took an hour to get that to crash. That's a Beta.

It seems a lot of people like Jamstix, But I'm not impressed so far.

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:13 PM   #50
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Jamstix is controlled buy the host DAW ( reaper in our case ) you set tempo, time sig etc in reaper, you also start and stop jamstix with the play button in reaper.
The lock button in jamstix sort of disconnects jamstix ( locks / unlocks ) from reaper while reaper is playing in the background, if that makes sense.

Don't know about the crashing, sorry, i've not experienced any crash problems using jamstix.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:16 PM   #51
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Lock does not mean play, it locks Jamstix to Reaper as the host.
Keep it simple until you get used to it. Load Jamstix on a track.
Click on the Wizard and pick one of the quick start songs (this will load a style, kit and drummer for you).
Make sure the lock button is depressed and now click play in Reaper.
This should get you started.

LOL wolfman beat me to it. No crashes here on XP
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:23 PM   #52
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@Rob - It will just shoot you out a song, but not the first day you use it. It is complicated, until you read the manual and play with it. If you trade a couple days up front to learn it, it has the potential to save you countless hours later. It is an investment. It's the only manual I have read cover to cover, and I am very glad that I did.

@Mike-Mat - I didn't want to read it either. Once I did, I knew it was worth it though. I can tell you that IMO, it is the single most innovative and effective piece of software that I have ever owned, and it is a crucial writing and recording tool for me now. That's me though. I won't push it on you if you're not digging it. For sounds, I actually don't use the built in Jamstix sounds. I use Superior Drummer. I've got the stock kit, the NY studio pack and Evil Drums. I really want to get the Music City kit now as well. I started with EZ Drummer and ended up getting SD eventually. Love both products and they work together as well, so that's a bonus. Tax refund can't come quickly enough!

No crashes here either. I used to get crashes, but those were because of my sound chip drivers and bad RAM. Nothing to do with Jamstix or REAPER.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:24 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
The lock button in jamstix sort of disconnects jamstix ( locks / unlocks ) from reaper while reaper is playing in the background, if that makes sense.
It does now!. Playing something. At least I can fool with the controls to see what's there.

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq View Post
I'm really interested in the jamstix part where you type in ICVVCCV etc... how does this work for nirvana type drums?

Because, really, I like simple beats, with a lot of guitar work for grungy stuff, Just havent really seen any grungy demos etc...

Seems very complicated, and well... I dont know. I really want something to just shoot me out a song.. I'm good at working guitar AROUND the drums.....

I mean, if i just shot out 5 songs... how close would they be to each other??

Yeah, i like those raw jamstix sounds..

~Rob.
The song builder works great, if you know your song structure it as simple as typing in the format IVCSVVC etc , choosing a style and drummer and press the create song button and your jaming out your song.
If its not sounding how you like just change the style and/or drummer untill its how you like, them you can fine tune things using all the settings in the brain to get exactly what you want.

It is pretty complicated at first, mainly because its nothing like any other drum vsti and you have to adopt a whole new mindset towards putting drum tracks together.
But once you get the hang of it it really quite simple yet very powerfull.

The videos i linked to cover pretty much all the things you need to learn to make good drum tracks.

Cheers
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Mat View Post
Downloaded and installed Jamstix. Watched the Quickstart demo video. Picked a song, pressed the "lock" button (which I assume means Play) and noting happens. I'm not impressed so far.

Got it to crash Reaper 3 times. Reaper very very rarely ever crashes.

Mike
The lock button tells Jamstix to stay synced with your host, so it's no wonder that nothing happened. If you picked a Quickstart song, make sure the lock button is pushed in and then have Reaper start playing.

And yeah, Jamstix is a bit more crashy than most plugins. It rarely does it for me, but I just make sure to save regularly anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq View Post
I'm really interested in the jamstix part where you type in ICVVCCV etc... how does this work for nirvana type drums?

Because, really, I like simple beats, with a lot of guitar work for grungy stuff, Just havent really seen any grungy demos etc...

Seems very complicated, and well... I dont know. I really want something to just shoot me out a song.. I'm good at working guitar AROUND the drums.....

I mean, if i just shot out 5 songs... how close would they be to each other??

Yeah, i like those raw jamstix sounds..

~Rob.
The song builder isn't the most creative thing in the world - it's more along the lines of a template wizard than anything else. You give it a song structure, a style, a drummer, a kit, and it spits out a basic tune fitting those specifications. Things like accents and fills will be fresh each time, but there won't be much variation in the song as a whole beyond things like how the hats are played as you go to choruses, or dropping to half-time if you told it to - that's why you're typing in your own structure anyway.

I just built the same song three times - a simple rock style, with just an intro, verse, drum solo, and chorus:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7231524/jamstix%20builder.mp3

Considering I just typed in a few letters and hit Build Song, that's more than enough variation for me to start working with.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:55 PM   #56
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BFD2 is awesome imo. High quailty sounds and great expansion packs.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:45 PM   #57
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Cant find a demo/trial version of EZ Drummer. Dont they have one?

Mike
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:50 PM   #58
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I use battery3 for the only reason that I got given it. Never tried any other drum software as it's done everything I need it to with minimum fuss (slow explorer sometimes tho)

I often think I should try some others out but...if it aint broke!
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:21 PM   #59
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I sorry, I got bored reading the thread and just decided to jump in and post a couple of thoughts.

They all take work. AD is going to be more flexible than EZD. I did not realize AD was on sale for 99 bucks (read it somewhere else, don't have a link) This puts it in a bit different light, but I still like EZD. Ymmv.

At midi files. The ones TT comes with are really the best ones for me because usually they are close-ish and then I can tweak accordingly. I find that things like the ride and the hats usually require a bit of work velocity wise but all in all it's not bad. I'm totally spoiled with SD2 because of the bleed options (but then again I'm x64 with 8 gigs of ram) but that isn't relevant since it's not in the asked about options.

I've heard all of the mentioned stuff (except maybe mixasour) done well, and done badly so with work you can get many products to work. Did I mention with work???
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slap View Post
I use battery3 for the only reason that I got given it. Never tried any other drum software as it's done everything I need it to with minimum fuss (slow explorer sometimes tho)

I often think I should try some others out but...if it aint broke!
This is an excellent way of looking at this. I've now had the EZD for like 5 years, and SD for about 2 and a half and even though someone else might not like the sound I get I feel comfortable and confident using them. The research is important because ideally you want to get something you've be able to keep use.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:30 PM   #61
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One other thing that is totally relevant is x64 vs x86. AD is not (and may never) be x64. Maybe their views have changed and I'm wrong but TT is a leader in this area and if you have or go to a native x64 rig (mac or pc) you may want to keep that in mind.

It's a confusing thing because there is always the idea of "ooooo, what if I miss this one feature" type thing. Drums are fundamental in many situations so it's one of those choices you want to try and get right.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Mat View Post
"...install it, then read the whole manual tonight...."

I dont want to read the manual. Running the demo should be easier than that for a guy with 25 years computer experience.

Have you heard of Hydrogen. It's a beta drum machine vst. Loaded with bugs. I was able to make drum tracks with that in 2 minutes. It took an hour to get that to crash. That's a Beta.

It seems a lot of people like Jamstix, But I'm not impressed so far.

Mike
Keep at it - work through the learning curve and you will be rewarded big time - this is FAR more than a midi player with samples. The AI in this thing is unbelievable once mastered.

Personally I use it in multi out mode and process each channel in its own track in Reaper (Kick snare etc) and its awesome - heres a quick jam using the stock kit https://www.youtube.com/user/Stratguy.../1/XW5LLLMOwWA

Cheers
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:07 PM   #63
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For me in the past i've turned to different drum modules for different genres.

Straight Rock - AD Drums
Modern rock/medal - SD 2
Jazz/classic rock/indie rock - BFD 2
Pop music - EZ Drummer 1.0

All used as re-sampling setups or a drummer on electric kit.

This obviously is only my opinion/experience... so yours will differ.

Jonny Ginese
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:51 PM   #64
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Superior Drummer 2 64 bit with Custom & Vintage SDX is working really well for me on W7 x64 with Reaper 4 alpha. It is rock solid and covers my needs perfectly.
I'm using it for classic and progressive rock and triggering it from my Roland kit and after some initial tweaking, it sounds and feels great.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:51 PM   #65
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A pair of drum sticks, large MIDI pads, and Steven Slate samples.

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Old 03-24-2011, 01:12 PM   #66
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Which do you like best....
MDrummer
EZ Drummer
Addictive Drums
Groove Monkey
other

Pros and cons.

Thanks for your input,

Mike
Well, you've certainly gotten enough food for thought. I use EZD and Superior and really like them. The supplied midi files are good. I like to do my own from scratch, though, just to know it's me and not someone else. And I can get them just the way I want. I find the UI easy to work with.

Groove Monkey sure has a lot of midi. I don't use it because I like to play or program my own stuff.

Slate sounds great for rock/pop. Processed. Ready to go. I find myself using these drums quite a bit. A little harder UI just because it's drum pieces all stacked up in Kontakt. Not a big deal, though.

Don't have MDrummer.

Jamstix sure gets good comments. I don't have it.

I think I'll spring for AD since it's on sale for $99.

Which do I like best? They each have their places. And you have to consider the sound you want. EZD and Superior for ease of use. Slate is often the sound I need. Both sound great, especially the Superior expansion pack, Lost New York Studios. Really like the sound of those kits.

Something to consider: Analogue Drums http://www.analoguedrums.com/ Lots of stuff for $60. Listen to the demos.

Cheers.
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:33 PM   #67
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+1 for Jamstix.

It rocks. And Ralph from Rayzoon provides some of the best support that I've ever seen any company provide on their forums.

I bought Jamstix with the intention of using it to subhost Superior Drummer which I already had. More often then not though I'm happy to use the Jamstix sounds by themselves without subhosting. I know technically it isn't supposed to sound as good as Superior, but I just like the way it sounds. I particularly like the the Kits in the Bonzo Pak expansion. They are so big and boomy. Mostly I just use it in drum module mode to provide sounds for my E-Drum kit and just play and track drums live.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:25 PM   #68
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+1 for Jamstix.

It rocks. And Ralph from Rayzoon provides some of the best support that I've ever seen any company provide on their forums.

I bought Jamstix with the intention of using it to subhost Superior Drummer which I already had. More often then not though I'm happy to use the Jamstix sounds by themselves without subhosting. I know technically it isn't supposed to sound as good as Superior, but I just like the way it sounds. I particularly like the the Kits in the Bonzo Pak expansion. They are so big and boomy. Mostly I just use it in drum module mode to provide sounds for my E-Drum kit and just play and track drums live.
The Bonzo pak is excellent as are Bonzo's styles

I did this track just coz I loved the drums sounds and playing,

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_2465897
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:49 PM   #69
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Mixosaurus - the best sounding.
.....

(YMMV).
Wow- I never heard of Mixosaurus, but it truly is incredible. Even quickly previewing the demos on a laptop, these sounds and the expressiveness are just a step above all the other contenders. Just listen to the high-hat/kick drum shuffle in this demo: http://www.mixosaurus.com/porcarosaurus.htm
as well as this one:
http://www.mixosaurus.com/b2_drums.htm
This sounds just like a very good drummer after a meticulous miking setup in a nice studio. I wonder how difficult it is to program grooves this expressive using Mixosarus. If I could justify spending this much money on a single sample instrument I would get it in a minute.

But, I got the Ocean Way and Drum Masters kits from a group buy a year ago and am pretty happy with most of the kits, even if they were somewhat neutered for the group buy.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:54 PM   #70
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lol if you got $1500 mixasaurus is good, lol otherwize, not so much
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:18 PM   #71
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Well I'm not a professional. This all strictly for fun. So money is no object... unless I have to spend some

I'm playing with a Jamstix demo for now and I can see that it's flexible. The package I would want is at $139. and someone mentioned that it sometimes goes on sale. So I think I'll wait for a sale. In the mean time I bought EZDrummer for $69 off ebay. The best deal I could find and it will give me something to play with. I can see it's not as flavorful at Jamstix, but for what I need it's a well spent $69.

I was able to drop some beats on a track in minutes and it gave me something to play along with. I'm looking forward to adding one of their optional kit, after I've fooled with the standard stuff for a while.

Somehow I think Mixosaurus might be a little expensive ($1500, really?) for what I need. I have to say I've learned a lot from everyone's contributions. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to offer your input. Of course that doesn't mean you have to stop adding comments or suggestions.

Mike
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:28 PM   #72
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Well I'm not a professional. This all strictly for fun. So money is no object... unless I have to spend some

I'm playing with a Jamstix demo for now and I can see that it's flexible. The package I would want is at $139. and someone mentioned that it sometimes goes on sale. So I think I'll wait for a sale. In the mean time I bought EZDrummer for $69 off ebay. The best deal I could find and it will give me something to play with. I can see it's not as flavorful at Jamstix, but for what I need it's a well spent $69.

I was able to drop some beats on a track in minutes and it gave me something to play along with. I'm looking forward to adding one of their optional kit, after I've fooled with the standard stuff for a while.

Somehow I think Mixosaurus might be a little expensive ($1500, really?) for what I need. I have to say I've learned a lot from everyone's contributions. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to offer your input. Of course that doesn't mean you have to stop adding comments or suggestions.

Mike
The good thing is if you buy jamstix, you can use it to play the EZD kits, so your just expanding on your EZD purchase.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:02 PM   #73
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"More Cowbell... I need more cowbell!"

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Old 03-25-2011, 11:37 PM   #74
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Superior drummer in a mix: Just some loop..

http://www.robrokkenaudio.com/stuff/...-drummer-2.mp3

~Rob.

Last edited by junioreq; 03-26-2011 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq View Post
Superior drummer in a mix: Just some loop..

http://www.robrokkenaudio.com/stuff/...-drummer-2.mp3

~Rob.
OOOOO! Me likes!
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:51 PM   #76
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Default What MIDI drum loops do you use?

I just bought Addictive Drummer thru Sweetwater. I do like the sounds. I'm interested in building the MIDI loops library.

I'm not into Hip Hop, Techno, Acid/Metal/Screamo. Some blues. More acoustic rock, pop rock, straight rock, etc.

I do NOT like loops that are incessant drum soloing. They're so impractical! I like nice grooves with decent fills, nice feel. Not too bland. I like texture.

I'm new to the MIDI loops thing. Any suggestions where to start?

Oh, BTW, I'm (obviously) not a professional musician. Home hobbyist. In the process of switching platforms from Sonar to Reaper.

Thanks in advance,
TB
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:57 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Mat View Post
Which do you like best....
Addictive Drums - it's probably just because I got it first? However:

They do a great demo which you can run for as long as you want.

It's got a very useable onboard reverb, compression, eq and a few buzz type effects.

The cymbal a HH samples can be filtered - I've only just started to appreciate this very recently, it means you can get them to take up less of the mix sometimes.

It's got overhead and room mics.

The basic snare and kit has a lot of texture and velocity.

It seems to be quite efficient with the CPU.

There's probably other things as well and EZDrums and others may have the same features and sound - I've not used them.

AD's on offer in Sweetwater at the moment:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=77047

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Old 04-01-2011, 09:11 PM   #78
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While we're talking drums, has anyone tried Linplug's RM IV or RM V? I use Slate's drums with Komtakt for real drums but for obvious electronic drums this sounds very good and is hugely tweakable.

Any experiences you wish to share?
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:31 PM   #79
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Hi
Shameless self-promotion, buti just released 3 new WaveShaper drum sample packs, one of them being some 12bit recordings of an acoustic drum, for some gritty goodness
There is a free kit to download, as well as 2 cheap ones.
Know more here :
http://waveshaper.bandcamp.com/album/12bit-drummer-full
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #80
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Well I own....Addictive Drums w Retro and Reel expansions, Superior 2.0 with all EZXs except Classic, EZDrummer, Battery 3 as well as Steven Slate platinum 3.5

Heres my opinion. As a drummer. Using a Roland TD20s kit for triggering. And occasionally a Yamaha kx61 for inputting midi from a keyboard.

My favorite is Addictive drummer for playing. It tracks the best (hihats and all) And has a huge variety of sounds. Great for pop and rock. Really awesome with the Retro expansion.

Superior is nice too. Not as smooth on the variable hihats and limited number of sounds. But it will play the EZXs as well as SDXs so sounds can be expanded. It sounds more raw to me. Some of the presets tame this but its hit and miss.

Steven Slate does nothing for me. The toms are terrible!!!! Beyond terrible. I doubt they are samples of drums. More like samples of a bad 80s drum machine. And only one variation. There are a lot of snares and kicks however. Seems geared towards metal styles. And the hihats track terrible in Kontakt. I occasionally layer a kick or snare from this w another VSTi

Battery is another animal. No sense in trying to play it from Vdrums as each kit has different mappings. It has a ton of sounds and is great for electronic style music. But I only program it from the keys.

For midi grooves its a toss up. EZ drummer or addictive have decent grooves. I like basic grooves to write to and later go back and drum in actual parts. So either of these works.
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