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Old 05-06-2007, 05:10 PM   #1
xackley
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Default Routing Limitations, Solo Button (FIXED)

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/19826/t3.RPP

1 Download project.
2 Place media in Tracks 4,6,7
3 Press play

4 Unmute track 7, Sound thru 1 and 2, but watch Track 7 meter
5 Mute Track 7

Note that track 1 and 2 are Soloed. But are not playing sound from Tracks 3 or 5

6. Un-Solo 1 and 2
7. Solo only track 5, result silence again

The program has to look further up and down the sound chain when Soloing a track.


FIXED
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Last edited by Dstruct; 05-13-2007 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:07 AM   #2
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I used to use my bcf2000 in mackie mode primarily as a bus mixer.
I group my sound in 8 or less primary busses so I know on every project which fader is mapped to stuff like vox, lead, rhythem, bass, drums, keys, and various delay and/or reverb channels.

In Reaper the busses are spread all over the project. There is no way to map a control surface to just the tracks displayed in the mixer.
This might not appear to be a big deal, but I depend on the laying on of hands, without watching the screen for overall vol and pan. And, I depend on the mute/solo for isolating sounds for tracing back problems.

So my workaround was to creat 8 tracks at the top of the project.
I thought, viola, reaper style busses, and proceeded to create the sends at the folder/track level to channel the sound thru the bus tracks.
It worked fine until I tried to Isolate sounds.
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
1 Download project.
2 Place media in Tracks 4,6,7
3 Press play

4 Unmute track 7, Sound thru 1 and 2, but watch Track 7 meter
yeah, this sounds like a bug. channel 7 should show levels in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
5 Mute Track 7

Note that track 1 and 2 are Soloed. But are not playing sound from Tracks 3 or 5
yeah, following the routing, items from tracks 4 and 6 should be heard in this case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
6. Un-Solo 1 and 2
7. Solo only track 5, result silence again
this looks to be ok. you have to solo track 2 in this case too. because the solo-function only activates the channels which are sending to the solo'ed channel. no bug imo.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
The program has to look further up and down the sound chain when Soloing a track.
i agree, that it should look (further) "down". but not "up"!
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:15 AM   #4
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*Quote:
*Originally Posted by xackley View Post
*6. Un-Solo 1 and 2
*7. Solo only track 5, result silence again
**this looks to be ok. you have to solo track 2 in this case too. because the solo-function only activates the channels which are sending to the solo'ed channel. no bug imo.

If reaper is to have no Dedicated Busses, this has to work. If a track/folder is Soloed, any track recieving has to carry the sound thru, otherwise things like a universal reverb channel would go silent.


*Quote:
*Originally Posted by xackley View Post
*The program has to look further up and down the sound chain when Soloing a track.
**i agree, that it should look (further) "down". but not "up"!

Well, I think it as up, but that's the whole tree/root flow discription connundrum.
I kept the report focused on Solo, I believe you reported a Mute/Send routing problem. Same thing, just different.
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:27 AM   #5
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an additonal note: your posts are hard to read. try to learn how to use the quote-function properly at least.


solo only has to activate (all) the channels which are sending to this channel. not the tracks which are receiving the solo'ed channel.
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:50 AM   #6
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the quote doesn't carry on previous quotes. So I figured I would try using * to delineate the conversation.

I hope the rest of the original text isn't to hard to follow.
-------
I can't think of why soloing a Track wouldn't also open the Recieves. it already does work if the Recieve Track is not in a folder.

The limitation in the example RPP is that the Folder Track "Parent" that contains the Recieve Track isn't being Opened.

Track 5 send -> Track 2 recieve -> Parent

The parent folder track 1 in the example RPP should be notified that there is sound to transport when track 5 is soloed.
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:53 AM   #7
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yeah, you're right. of course this (solo in place) has to work in both directions ...


justin, please have a look at this!
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:22 PM   #8
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try this build: http://reaper.fm/files/reaper1854_fr.zip

let me know if that breaks anything with respect to routing + folders + solo

-Justin
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:32 PM   #9
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yes, here it breaks something. see the attached project. only the soloed track should be heard (bassdrum). track "drums 2" (snare) should be "muted":

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Old 05-12-2007, 01:36 PM   #10
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here another one (same routing):

only bassdrum should be heard ("drums fx" folder). snare ("drums 2") should be silent.

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Old 05-12-2007, 01:38 PM   #11
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dandruff can you simplify those projects down to the min required for the bug to be reproduceable?

nm I cut it down..

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Old 05-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #12
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ok, Test.zip reuploaded

now i also found the reason: it happens because of the hardware-send (see the picture). if i remove this send, then the bug doesn't occur!

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Old 05-12-2007, 01:50 PM   #13
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Test2.zip reuploaded too. but there i don't have an idea, why it happens (all hardware-out-sends deleted).
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:58 PM   #14
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OK updated it more.. all this solo/solo in place/folder/routing stuff makes it sooo complicated.

Try this version:

http://reaper.fm/files/reaper1855_fr2.zip

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Old 05-12-2007, 02:03 PM   #15
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ok. test2 seems to be solved completely. test1 too. but there i get a new problem now. see the new attached test1-new.zip.

only the snare "drums 2" should be heard.

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Old 05-12-2007, 02:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
ok. test2 seems to be solved completely. test1 too. but there i get a new problem now. see the new attached test1-new.zip.

only the snare "drums 2" should be heard.
hmm no they should both be heard, I think..
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:09 PM   #17
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EditEdit: Same with FR2.zip
Edit: might be a version behind on the below

Using original Test project
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/19826/t3.RPP

Soloing only Track 2 plays track 5, but Track meter on Track 5 and 6 say not soloing

Soloing only Track 5, still no sound. Track 1 says Not Soloed.
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
hmm no they should both be heard, I think..

ahh, stupid me! of course! but: why is channel "REC drums" (bassdrum) saying "not solo"?

seem this was confusing me. fixable?
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
ahh, stupid me! of course! but: why is channel "REC drums" (bassdrum) saying "not solo"?

seem this was confusing me. fixable?
same with

-> disable solo of the DRUMS folder
-> mute the DRUMS folder

=> "REC Drums" also should show the muted state
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
same with

-> disable solo of the DRUMS folder
-> mute the DRUMS folder

=> "REC Drums" also should show the muted state
hmm I think the other should be fixed, but this one should probably not (since it happens that its only routing is through the muted folder, but I dont think we need to reflect that)
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:23 PM   #21
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On subtrack 2 in my project
If I change the output from Parent, to a Send To Track 1 (which is logically the same), Soloing Track 5 works.

Appears to be the Parent logic on Track 2 that is losing the signal
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
hmm I think the other should be fixed, but this one should probably not (since it happens that its only routing is through the muted folder, but I dont think we need to reflect that)
mmh, not? i mean muted or solo - it's just the opposite. so it should be reflected in both cases!? not?
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
On subtrack 2 in my project
If I change the output from Parent, to a Send To Track 1 (which is logically the same), Soloing Track 5 works.

Appears to be the Parent logic on Track 2 that is losing the signal
xackley, sorry if I'm not understanding, with the latest build posted here, can you get it to behave incorrectly?
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:55 PM   #24
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Edit, I mean YES it does behave Incorrectly
No.

What with Track 2 left at the Default Parent Setting, track 1 doesnot come alive with Track 5 is soloed

What I was saying is that if I change the IO on track 2, and make it a Send to Track 1, Track 1 then comes alive, everything working as expected.

IOW
Solo only Track 5 -> Track 2 -> Parent, does Not Work

Solo only Track 5 -> Track 2 with a Send to Track 1, does work

EDIT: Track 1 is a Folder Track in both cases. Track 2 is inside the Track 1 Folder.
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:05 PM   #25
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yeah. looks like a bug.

i've simplified the project for you justin ("track 3" should be heard when soloing "folder 2", but it isn't):

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Old 05-12-2007, 03:16 PM   #26
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Also meters on Tracks Feeding a Soloed Track still Display NOT SOLOED, even though they are being heard.
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:43 PM   #27
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hmm, here's a Q:

if you have tracks in a folder, that are routed outside the folder, should SIP'ing the folder make the tracks in the folder SIP'd through the outside tracks?
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
Also meters on Tracks Feeding a Soloed Track still Display NOT SOLOED, even though they are being heard.
yeah let's worry about getting the audio processing right then once that's as it should be we can sort out the track display more easily
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:49 PM   #29
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I "think" that would be expected.

The container is Soloed, so everything in the Container should be heard

Edit: unless explicitly Muted.
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:53 PM   #30
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ok http://reaper.fm/files/reaper1855_fr4.zip let's keep a goin'
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:56 PM   #31
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Definitely.

Example
If I had special routing for a phone mix, I would create Sends to a dedicated "Phone Track".

Soloing the Root Folder should continue to Send to the Phone Track.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:06 PM   #32
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Good chance this is right.
Soloing and Muting in my test project appears to be working as expected.

Dandruff would have to confirm, this gets mind boggling even at this end.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:17 PM   #33
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yep. tested all stuff (incl. your project) again. fine. found no problem (sound-wise). now only the display (tracks showing "not solo" or "mute") has to be fixed to go conform with the sound we hear ...


+ http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6683 (special problem in my setup) -> if justin could add an option for this (mute the midi-stuff when muting the parent folder), it would be perfect (for me)!

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Old 05-12-2007, 04:22 PM   #34
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good,

Ya I hadn't test the SoftSynth bug report tonight. But it is in the same basket.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:25 PM   #35
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yeah, it's not really a bug (as there's no connection/routing between the folder and the track). but still i would love (need) it in my special routing scenario. maybe justin can add an option for this ...
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:33 PM   #36
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I still don't see the difference.
When the folder is muted, everything that is Post Fader should be muted.

So either the Synth is muted, or the Midi clip is muted. Same result. Silence.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:41 PM   #37
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yeah, i need silence there. i think justin could achieve this with muting the midi-items in this case.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:42 PM   #38
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Infact both the Synth and the Midi Clip should be muted.

There is a possibility that the Synth is receiving midi from amother track outside the folder. It shouldn't play because the VSTi is in a Muted Folder.

There is a possibilty the Midi Clip has a Send to another VSTi Track outside the folder. The MIDI clip should not trigger the other VSTi if the Folder containing the MIDI clip is muted.
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Old 05-12-2007, 04:47 PM   #39
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yeah. mmh. too much for me tonight. i just want silence there. i don't care how if it breaks something i'll report it
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Old 05-12-2007, 05:17 PM   #40
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found a problem

on my project
1 add track to end of project which will be track 8
2 add a Send to Track 5 for Track 8
3 Mute Tracks 3, 5, 7. This Results in Silence (good).
4 Click the Solo on Track 5.

Expected in Reaper that the Solo overrides the Mute.
Result is continued silence.

The M S worked as expected until a second Send was inserted on Track 5.
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