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Old 09-10-2016, 10:50 PM   #1
PrismaPhonic
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Default Feature Request: Folder tracks automatically act as VCA Master for sibling SENDS

Hi,

I've been doing some testing in quite a few DAWs and was surprised to see that although Ableton Live does not have VCA tracks, it really doesn't need it because it's use of "Group" tracks (similar to Folder tracks) solves nearly every problem that VCA tracks tries to solve.

How does it work? Well, from what I can tell if you select any number of tracks in Ableton, and then use Cmd-G to group them, it creates a group track and all sibling tracks (that you just highlighted) will be sent automatically to the parent group track. So far this works no differently than a Reaper folder.

But here's where it differs: If you turn down the Group track and sibling tracks of yours are sending to FX tracks (reverb, delay, etc.) then you DO NOT hear the FX tracks playing, which is commonly the problem with Folder tracks. So is it really a VCA? No, it's not. #1 you can put processing on the group track as you can a folder track. #2 Turning down the group track DOES NOT TURN DOWN THE lEVEL OF THE INDIVIDUAL TRACKS. So how is it ensuring that turning down the group fader proportionately turns down the sends on the sibling tracks?

My best guess is that when you create a "group" in Ableton (again, similar to a folder in Reaper), it sets up the folder track like a normal bus, but it assigns the group fader as a VCA master, and assigns the SENDS on the sibling tracks as VCA slaves.

This solves a number of problems.

If I also want to have a buss (i.e folder track) that I can apply processing to, like buss compression, then that creates the obvious issue of that when I'm adjusting the buss track level to get my mix balance right, I'm affecting the FX balance in the process. So what about setting up both a Folder/buss track and a VCA track? The Folder track I can apply processing to and then I can use the VCA to turn down the individual tracks that are feeding the buss, right? Well, that poses another challenge, in that turning down the VCA then will change how much gain is feeding into my buss channel, which will change the way my buss compressor behaves.

So, the only sensible solution is to do what Ableton does, and automatically setup the Folder track as a VCA master, and all FX sends within sibling tracks as VCA slaves.

If this doesn't make sense please let me know. I'd be happy to make a private video showing how Ableton's group tracks work in this way.
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Old 10-29-2016, 04:30 PM   #2
fladd
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+1000
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:30 PM   #3
TobyAM
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+10E10

An option for a folder to act as a VCA master to all the children automatically would be great, at least.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:28 PM   #4
_Stevie_
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this one definitely gets a +1!
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:06 AM   #5
barbaroja
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Default We need this

Like, real... Badly in need of it. Setting up groups for every single track you add, stuff like that is showstopper.
We need to make music quick. The less clicks, the better. Parent folders should be controlling all their childs VCA by default.

The actual VCA track options would be good to keep in case you want to override this setting. Right now, the VCA feature is useless to me. Ableton does this real simple.

+1
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:44 AM   #6
mrsnow
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this is one of the main reasons i started an account on this forum is to see if this is a feature or not. im begging for this to happen. i recently switched from logic and while i really love the customization of this daw, this is the most significant feature missing from this daw

being able to make a track a bus folder vca etc in one is cool.. but absolutely pointless. one of the faults of these more 'free' programs is drifting off by sacrificing ostensible need for more powerful tools
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:06 AM   #7
Eddy
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I would hate this - I almost never use old school bussing techniques based around traditional studio design (console + recorder). And I go back to the console + recorder days Or maybe I am misunderstanding your description.

I have no problem with a switch - make this folder a vca group - or something like that. But I would probably never use it as I like the folder system as it is now

Last edited by Eddy; 11-28-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:28 PM   #8
J Riley Hill
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Default Yea!

This would be great, as long as there was an option to disable it
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:04 AM   #9
uncleswede
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I been playing with a VCA folder idea over the last few days. If it works out I'll post up a video with my idea
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