Old 01-11-2020, 05:32 PM   #1
gaiamuse
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Default SOLVED - Arturia Keylab Essential 61 & Reaper 6.02

I recently purchased a Keylab Essential 61 for the purpose of working with Reaper and also renewed my licence to 6.0. Most of basics(transport controls, knobs, faders for ananlog 4, octave buttons, etc) that I have tried work within Reaper. The issue I have so far that does not work is the display on the keyboard. It will not display the intruments/presets for selection. This works with Ableton 10 lite that came with keyboard. I would like to look at the screen on the keyboard instead of always the computer screen to see the selection in Analog lab 4. Firmware has been upgraded.

I wrote to Arturia and this is their reply:

"Sorry for the inconvenience but this is a known issue and its related to how Reaper handles the MIDI Ports. The DevTeam is working on a solution for this but it also depends on the Reaper side, so please contact them also."

OS: Windows 10
Reaper: 6.02

Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers gaiamuse

Last edited by gaiamuse; 01-25-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:56 PM   #2
billybuck
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Default My Keylab Essentials works in 5.9x

I have the Essential 49 and it's able to change/view preset names from the Analog Lab 4 VST3 in Reaper 5.9x, 64 bit (Windows 10). I'm wondering if there was a change in Reaper 6 that made them non-compatible? I'm going to be very cautious about upgrading until I find out.

I had the original, old Keylab 49 (MK I) and had the same issues you're seeing - the controls did change the mapped parameters, but Reaper never sent the info back to the Keylab so its screen wouldn't update to show the preset names. Sometimes you could browse preset names when the unit was first turned on, but usually as soon as you clicked anything on the controller, the names would vanish and you'd be browsing blind.

I spent about a year searching forums and learning more about MIDI, MCU, OSC, etc. than I ever wanted to know, only to decide it wasn't going to work.

I "updated" to the Essential and all seems to be working as advertised so far. I use the quotes there because the original Keylab was a pretty substantial instrument with a metal case and a nice key bed - the Essential is more like a plastic toy by comparison. The working integration was more important for me, though.

Analog Lab 4 seems pretty stable in Reaper 5.9x, but I do occasionally have problems with the individual instruments in Arturia's V Collection when used as VST's. Often, they'll just silently crash. I can see that the keyboard is sending midi, but there's no sound from the plugin - even when using the built-in virtual keyboard. In those cases, I have to "offline" the FX in Reaper and then then turn it back on. That does the trick, but it's a pain. The crashes seem to occur most frequently when changing presets.

One thing I don't like about Arturia's control method is that if you change a preset mid-song, AL doesn't use standard MIDI Program Change, so it won't be noted in the midi recording values. I've found it's safest to always record audio output on a second channel in addition to the MIDI channel.

Last edited by billybuck; 01-14-2020 at 02:57 PM. Reason: spelling errors
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:11 AM   #3
gaiamuse
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Default Worked in 5.9x too but not in 6.x

Thank you very much for your reply Billybuck. Yes I got the display to work in 5.9x too and was so excited with the new controller decided to upgrade to 6.0.

Just to confirm midi settings on Windows 10:

Midi Devices are enabled to: Arturia Keylab Essential 61 for Input and Output
Control/OSC/Web is set to: Mackie Control Universal (follow directions on Arturia site) with Midi Input = MIDIN2, Midi Output = MIDIOUT2

I have also set the plugins/vst to include the VST3 folder on Windows where the VST3 version of Analog Lab 4 is located.

Devs is there any other settings I should be using for version 6.x?

cheers,
gaiamuse
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaiamuse View Post
I recently purchased a Keylab Essential 61 for the purpose of working with Reaper and also renewed my licence to 6.0. Most of basics(transport controls, knobs, faders for ananlog 4, octave buttons, etc) that I have tried work within Reaper. The issue I have so far that does not work is the display on the keyboard. It will not display the intruments/presets for selection. This works with Ableton 10 lite that came with keyboard. I would like to look at the screen on the keyboard instead of always the computer screen to see the selection in Analog lab 4. Firmware has been upgraded.

I wrote to Arturia and this is their reply:

"Sorry for the inconvenience but this is a known issue and its related to how Reaper handles the MIDI Ports. The DevTeam is working on a solution for this but it also depends on the Reaper side, so please contact them also."

OS: Windows 10
Reaper: 6.02

Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers gaiamuse
Not sure the compatibility with Reaper 6 as I sold my Essential, but it worked great with version 5.983, last I checked.

But if you want total parameter control on your screen, you're better off with a Komplete Kontrol keyboard by NI, if you want to see every parameter of your synth plugins, from the keyboard itself (the Komplete Kontrol plugin is really, really awesome for and with this-- even a used Komplete keyboard, the S-series MK1). Or, Novation's SL MKIII, and with the DrivenByMoss plugin/script by Jurgen Mossgraber (check the Reaper Q&A section even though it should be in this section)... that also gives you tons of parameters onscreen with Device mode... really great.

The Keylab Essential 61 is a great little board.... but again, not sure of any bugs with Reaper 6.

Certain controllers offer more visual feedback than others. Obviously the more expensive ones offer this in much greater detail... the Keylab is dope but I am much happier with my SL MKIII and my Komplete Kontrol S25 (25 key, tons of info on the screens using the Komplete Kontrol plugin). That's why I sold my Essential.

Hope this helps!
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:38 AM   #5
gaiamuse
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Many thanks themixtape for your comments! Most appreciated.

Yes, I have the Kontrol M32 to work with Komplete Kontrol and Komplete Ultimate 12. I use the ReaKontrol plugin .93 or .94 and for most of the basics works with M32 even though it is designed for the S series. And yes, I get great preset display. Only thing this isn't working with latest 0.95 upgrade (for some reason doesn't enable track instance). It is a great little Controller and has opened up new possibilities using it with Komplete Kontrol.

I really like both of the Controllers that I recently purchased. I am just baffled why the Arturia Keylab Essential on board display doesn't work in 6.0 but did in 5.x -

Is there anyone else who has a Keylab Essential and has purchased Reaper 6.0?

cheers,
gaiamuse
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:15 AM   #6
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Gaiamuse, I take it you have output for the Keylab enabled in MIDI device preferences?
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:23 AM   #7
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I am not sure what is going on with yours. But for me mine works perfectly, I can see pans, vol, VSTi in use on the display all the expected info.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #8
gaiamuse
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Hi billybuck & Cranky Emu

My settings are what was used in 5.x

Midi Devices are enabled to: Arturia Keylab Essential 61 for Input and Output
Control/OSC/Web is set to: Mackie Control Universal (follow directions on Arturia site) with Midi Input = MIDIN2, Midi Output = MIDIOUT2
Also Arturia has a midi control app and suppose to set this to MCC for Reaper.

I leave Midin2 & Midiout2 not enabled in Midi Devices because I have set these in Control/OSC/Web.
I tried the other way around but still didn't work.

Cranky Emu, what are your settings and are you on Win10 x64?

Cheers
gaiamuse
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:12 PM   #9
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I have attached an image, hope you can see it ok. If not PM me and I will put it somewhere else for you.

You will see it is saying in image not present, ignore that part. Just the keyboard is not currently connected. Doing a re-arrange.

There are two entries for it, one as midi device and one as controller. I don't recall which was which. But hope this helps you a little bit. And yeah I used the MCU protocol as well.

I used to have it as my controller, but now using the Akai MPD218 pad as my controller.
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Old 01-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #10
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Gaiamuse, did copying Emu's setup fix the issue? I'm still sticking with 5.9x until I'm sure your Keylab's working correctly in 6.0x.

I noted in a recent bug fix thread you mentioned that 6.0x isn't passing LegacyMIDICCOutEvent in VST3's. How did you narrow the problem down to that specific event?

I'm wondering if one of the many user-created type of scripts that translate midi/Mcu data from one cc to another could be a temporary solution. They'd have to be placed after Analog Lab in the plugin chain, to catch the output, but if you knew what the VST3 was sending after a preset change, it might be possible to capture it via plugin script and translate it to whatever output the Keylab expects when a preset change is noted.

Speaking of VST3, do you have the same hardware/vsti disconnect with the non-vst3 version?

[Note to Reaper devs: My current license expires with 5, so having someone spend 30 minutes on this could largely pay for itself and then go on to maintain compatibility with one of the current top-selling controllers in the market--one that's currently boasting of full plug-n-play Reaper compatibility in its marketing.]
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:51 PM   #11
gaiamuse
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Default SOLVED - Arturia Keylab Essential 61 & Reaper 6.02

Hi billybuck,

Sorry, Emu's set up was difficult to follow as there was no setting to show what to and what not to enable in the Midi Devices which I now discovered was the issue - I really appreciate the help as it confirm that it can work with 6.x
After a number of hours going through different combinations, I almost gave up until I found an old Ableton Live query for Analog 3 which was describing exactly the issue I was having- could see daw settings like vol. pan etc on the disply but no presets for the Analogue VSTi on the controller display.

SOLVED: I can confirm now that it works with 6.x on Win10.

My settings are:

Analogue 4 - In Audio/Midi devices -enable both Arturia Keylab 61 and MIDIIN2

Arturia's Midi Control Centre - In Device Settings/DAW Mode - choose Mackie Control & installed most recent firmware 1.1.6

REAPER 6.x Preferences
Midi Devices - Midi Inputs - Only Enable Keylab Essential 61 (can also enable input for control messages if you wish)
DO NOT ENABLE anything in the MIDI OUTPUTS - causes analogue's display for Analgoue presets not to work on the display for the controller
CONTROL/OSC/WEB - Add Control Surface and choose Mackie Control Universal and choose MIDIIN2 for midi input and MIDIOUT2 for midi output.

With regard to bug fix thread I didn't discover that bug, just was trying to see if latest dev reaper install may have fixed this which it did not - was entirely another issue.

So all good to upgrade to Reaper 6.x for Win10 if you wish

Again, thanks to you and Emu for all your help and encouragement. Most appreciated.

cheers,
gaiamuse

Last edited by gaiamuse; 01-25-2020 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 12:12 AM   #12
billybuck
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Glad you got it going! I spent literally a couple years combing thru various forums looking for a fix for the Keylab MKI and finally gave up and upgraded to the MKII after reports they'd improved the integration. It felt like throwing good money after bad, but I really wanted the thing to work because I'd also purchased the V Collection and the emulations are excellent.

I never thought of looking for users of other DAW's with similar issues -- smart move on your part.

I believe I did try turning off MIDI device output on the MKI. I must have tried every permutation of settings, and there were literally hundreds of users with similar issues in the Arturia forums and the dedicated forum on KVR, but Arturia never responded to any of them.

Sometimes the MKI would show presets for a few minutes, then, nada, even in standalone mode. Much better experience with the MKII, and the DAW control seems solid, if a little limited. I also have an Akai MIDIMix control surface, so between the two I can cover most things in Reaper, but I've resigned myself to the idea that unless I want to dedicate a month of my life to custom mapping and scripting, I'm always going to be using a mouse and keyboard as my primary interface.

I'm waiting patiently for MIDI 2.0, which is rumored to simplify this sort of thing.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:35 PM   #13
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This thread is marked solved, and I can confirm that my Keylab MKII works largely as advertised in Reaper 6--I can browse presets and see them displayed on the controller"s LCD. However, I have noticed that if I have Arturia VSTi's loaded on multiple tracks (one instrument per track), my Keylab occasionally loses the ability to control and view presets - even with only one track armed. I haven't had a chance to experiment and find exactly how many tracks breaks the camel's back.
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