Old 02-26-2020, 04:17 AM   #7041
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
IMHO it would be appropriate to start a new forum thread for Beta test discussions.
I'd like to post some comments there...

-Michael
This is the forum thread for Beta test discussions
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:38 AM   #7042
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OK, if you don't like a harsh break between pre-Alpha and Beta ....
-Michael
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:53 AM   #7043
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Hopefully fixes TrackTouch issues with:
MasterTrackNavigator
SelectedTrackNavigator
FocusedFXNavigator
Nearly there Drops into Write when fader is touched, doesn't drop back out again when released.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:39 AM   #7044
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Nearly there Drops into Write when fader is touched, doesn't drop back out again when released.
Hmmm... seems to work here.

I'm sure you've already checked these things but just in case

Are you getting a release Midi message ?

Are you using Touch automation mode ?

Maybe some other config thing ?
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:25 PM   #7045
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Default "Beta" comments, just regarding the Wiki

Definition of „Message generator“: This term seems to be used for the functionality provided by the hardware device but then “Message Generators allow you to define” does not make immediate sense.

MST file syntax:

Within widgets always lines containing Keyword message message message …

Comments ?

A comprehensive List of all currently allowed keywords (allowing future enhancement by appropriate description)
We seem to have

Press
Faser7Bit
Fader14Bit
Encoder
EbncoderPlain
EncoderRevers
AnyPress

FB_TwoState
FB_ Fader14Bit
FB_ Fader7Bit
FB_ Encoder
FB_VUMeter
FB_GainReductionMeter
FB_QConProXMasterVUMeter
FB_MCUTimeDisplay
FB_MCUVUMeter
FB_MCUDisplayUpper
FB_MCUDisplayLower
FB_MCUXTDisplayUpper
FB_MCUXTDisplayLower
FB_MCUC4DisplayUpper
FB_MCUC4DisplayLower
FB_MFT_RGB

Are there even more already existing or planned ?

Is it officially supported to use the same (Midi) message in multiple (Generator) Widgets ? (See Shift / Shift_R example in the Wiki.) Will this fire all these Widget-actions ?




Is there a way to test the MST file without crating any zone file ? (i.e. some kind of debug window showing the result of the Widget definitions whenever something is sent by the surface device, and allowing to send something to the MST-widgets and watching the result on the surface device.

Wiki: “It's important to understand it's not the surface deciding when to turn the light on or off. It's doing it in response to a message from CSI. We don't want the surface managing the state of the buttons, that responsibility belongs to Reaper/CSI.”
Unfortunately this behavior can’t be avoided with several Surface devices (such as the XTouch Compact that I do own). As we don’t want to have the surface internally remember the state of a “TwoStae” we need to configure it as a “PushButton”. The LED of a button shows the state of the button pressed=On, released = Off. Hence the state toggled by pressing the button needs to be always sent after receiving a release message. I seem to remember that with certain devices it might be necessary to impose some delay before sending the Feedback message to avoid misbehavior.
Similarly the LED Ring of the rotaries are moved when turning the knob. And this can’t be switched off.

Recently we discussed a Widget that converts the turning of a “fader”-type rotary to a pair of “up/down” buttons. (i.e. encoder).

There is no description on Fader14Bit yet. I suppose this generator will cover the MCU-like “pseudo-Midi” messages. But there also is an official “high resolution CC” Midi definition for this kind of messages I don’t know if any surfaces actually do use this.). Moreover there is Midi2 and NRPM around the corner… (We found that NRPM in combination with HR CC is already used by A&H see -> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2250425#7076 .)

Some devices use Sysex messages instead of standard Midi messages. How is this covered by CSI ?

While it’s obviously great to have Generators and Feedback processors dedicated to certain surfaces, IMHO it would be very appropriate to have a small set of more versatile (and hence less easy to use) “expert” Generators and Feedback processors allow for special purpose applications.


For Zone files:
“Action Reference” seems to provide a comprehensive list of all currently allowable actions. Are all of them intended to already be functional ?

It would be good to have a debug mode that does not actually execute these actions but just shows them in a log on the screen.

Do all such actions automatically provide the appropriate feedback to the Widget (or multiple widgets) they are associated with ?

Wiki -> Home-> Examples that come with the alpha download does not seem to work correctly


-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-28-2020 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:59 PM   #7046
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Is there a way to have variables in the MST MIDI hex data?

I know that at least in the case of my mixer, the first bit is the MIDI channel number. Since we set up the midi channel info when setting up a surface, is there a way that could have a channel_in and channel_out variable so that re-writing an mst is not necessary if for some reason you need to change midi channels for your surface?

obviously channel_in and channel_out are long variable names and could be shortened.

Another thought I had was to have variable support in general in the mst file. To make mst files more readable it would be nice to be able to set different hex values to named variables. For a board with a bunch of faders, you will end up needing to copy and paste a ton of stuff and only change a single bit to identify the fader channel.

If instead there were variable support, you could make setup for new surfaces much simpler by only needing to change the values of some standard variables rather than writing out a whole mst file.

I'm imagining something like this:

Code:
//EDIT THESE VALUES 
MCHP = B0  //MIDI Channel Primary
MCHS = B1  //MIDI Channel Secondary

FS = 00   //Fader Strip ID 1
FM = 20   //Fader Mute 1

FMV = 7F   //Fader Max Value
FZV = 00   //Fader Zero Value
NO = 7F    //Note On
NF = 00    //Note Off


Widget CH1_Fader
  Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS $FMV
  FB_Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS $FZV
WidgetEnd

Widget CH2_Fader
  Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS+1 $FMV
  FB_Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS+1 $FZV
WidgetEnd

Widget CH1_Mute
  press $MCHP $FM $NO
  FB_TwoState $MCHP $FM $NO  $MCHP $FM $NF
WidgetEnd

Widget CH2_Mute
  press $MCHP $FM+1 $NO
  FB_TwoState $MCHP $FM+1 $NO  $MCHP $FM+1 $NF
WidgetEnd
If hex math and variables were available to use, it would be way easier to set up an mst for a new surface, and make things much more human readable for easy troubleshooting.

Even better when considering items that repeat with a single value change, it would be cool to simply make a single widget template and then have some syntax where you identify the variable that changes with each widget, and how your widget name changes, and how many widgets you want. Then the plugin extrapolates from there on boot up. Would be very useful for repeating widgets.

Maybe something like:
Code:
WidgetTemplate Faders
  Data
    Fader7Bit B0 $H 7F
    FB_Fader7Bit B0 $H 00
  Settings
    NumWidgets 16
    Name Fader_Ch$I
    IncrementBy 1
    StartVal_H 00
    StartVal_I 1
WidgetTemplateEnd
$H would be some standardized syntax that represents the hex value that will change with each widget.
$I is similar to $H but is an integer rather than hex and would be used to increment widget name values.
NumWidgets describes how many widgets this template will generate
Name describes the widget name and must include $I somewhere which will ensure incrementing widget names
IncrementBy is used to describe the increment value of $H not $I as $I would be incremented by 1 regardless.
StartVal_H is the hex value for $H for the first widget.
StartVal_I is the integer value for $I for the first widget.

I think this would cover just about any use case where you have like 16 faders or 32 knobs or some other similar scenario where you need to make a bunch of widgets where only the faderID or KnobID etc. is changing for each widget.

Last edited by KroniK907; 02-26-2020 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:56 PM   #7047
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Can you add a new NRPN message generator and Feedback Processor?

To unlock all of the buttons and knobs on my mixer, 90% of the 'widgets' use what Allen & Heath call NRPN messages which is a series of 4 bytes.



This format does not seem to be currently supported. Please let me know if one of the existing message generators and feedback processors supports this format.

Full MIDI protocol manual here. NRPN message section starts on page 4.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:49 AM   #7048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
Is there a way to have variables in the MST MIDI hex data?

I know that at least in the case of my mixer, the first bit is the MIDI channel number. Since we set up the midi channel info when setting up a surface, is there a way that could have a channel_in and channel_out variable so that re-writing an mst is not necessary if for some reason you need to change midi channels for your surface?

You don't set up the midi channel info when setting up a surface, you set up a port.

It's easy to confuse this stuff especially if you are used to the Midi protocol.

Control surface language is NOT Midi.

For instance you may think this means 3 messages each to a different Midi channel.

e0 34 45
e2 45 45
e7 00 00


Nope it means set Faders 1, 3, and 8 to the sent value, nothing to do with channels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
Another thought I had was to have variable support in general in the mst file. To make mst files more readable it would be nice to be able to set different hex values to named variables. For a board with a bunch of faders, you will end up needing to copy and paste a ton of stuff and only change a single bit to identify the fader channel.

If instead there were variable support, you could make setup for new surfaces much simpler by only needing to change the values of some standard variables rather than writing out a whole mst file.

I'm imagining something like this:

Code:
//EDIT THESE VALUES 
MCHP = B0  //MIDI Channel Primary
MCHS = B1  //MIDI Channel Secondary

FS = 00   //Fader Strip ID 1
FM = 20   //Fader Mute 1

FMV = 7F   //Fader Max Value
FZV = 00   //Fader Zero Value
NO = 7F    //Note On
NF = 00    //Note Off


Widget CH1_Fader
  Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS $FMV
  FB_Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS $FZV
WidgetEnd

Widget CH2_Fader
  Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS+1 $FMV
  FB_Fader7Bit $MCHP $FS+1 $FZV
WidgetEnd

Widget CH1_Mute
  press $MCHP $FM $NO
  FB_TwoState $MCHP $FM $NO  $MCHP $FM $NF
WidgetEnd

Widget CH2_Mute
  press $MCHP $FM+1 $NO
  FB_TwoState $MCHP $FM+1 $NO  $MCHP $FM+1 $NF
WidgetEnd
If hex math and variables were available to use, it would be way easier to set up an mst for a new surface, and make things much more human readable for easy troubleshooting.

Even better when considering items that repeat with a single value change, it would be cool to simply make a single widget template and then have some syntax where you identify the variable that changes with each widget, and how your widget name changes, and how many widgets you want. Then the plugin extrapolates from there on boot up. Would be very useful for repeating widgets.

Maybe something like:
Code:
WidgetTemplate Faders
  Data
    Fader7Bit B0 $H 7F
    FB_Fader7Bit B0 $H 00
  Settings
    NumWidgets 16
    Name Fader_Ch$I
    IncrementBy 1
    StartVal_H 00
    StartVal_I 1
WidgetTemplateEnd
$H would be some standardized syntax that represents the hex value that will change with each widget.
$I is similar to $H but is an integer rather than hex and would be used to increment widget name values.
NumWidgets describes how many widgets this template will generate
Name describes the widget name and must include $I somewhere which will ensure incrementing widget names
IncrementBy is used to describe the increment value of $H not $I as $I would be incremented by 1 regardless.
StartVal_H is the hex value for $H for the first widget.
StartVal_I is the integer value for $I for the first widget.

I think this would cover just about any use case where you have like 16 faders or 32 knobs or some other similar scenario where you need to make a bunch of widgets where only the faderID or KnobID etc. is changing for each widget.
We already do something very similar in .zon files using the "|" character.

We decided to make it difficult to change the .mst precisely because we want to discourage it, and point folks toward the .zon file approach insttead, it's usually the best way.
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Old 02-27-2020, 03:56 AM   #7049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
Can you add a new NRPN message generator and Feedback Processor?

To unlock all of the buttons and knobs on my mixer, 90% of the 'widgets' use what Allen & Heath call NRPN messages which is a series of 4 bytes.



This format does not seem to be currently supported. Please let me know if one of the existing message generators and feedback processors supports this format.

Full MIDI protocol manual here. NRPN message section starts on page 4.
Just had a quick look, unfortunately won't be doing this one and it has nothing to do with NRPN.

There is a section just before the NRPN section where they indicate that the transport uses SysEx, Reaper does not support reading SysEx, so it's a non starter, and actually a very poor design choice on AH's part IMHO

Do they have an OSC variant ? -- CSI also speaks OSC.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:40 AM   #7050
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So I've had some wins! It was all due to capitalization. For instance Trackvolume does not work. TrackVolume however is a winner.

Two twisters now read 32 tracks of volume. The shift encoder function (push and turn) pans them. Wonderful.

A big thank you to Geoff, FunkyBot, MixMonkey and the whole band here

.....

Looking to expound on that. I started down the road of incorporating my Faderport Classic (silver one) and I'm getting some odd behavior when trying to create the mst.

1. Mute/Solo/Rec/Pan Knob don't register anything. There's one other button that doesn't register anything "off"

2. When I touch the fader
IN -> OGFP b0 0f 00
IN -> OGFP b0 2f 40

When I release the fader
IN -> OGFP b0 0f 00
IN -> OGFP b0 2f 00

No values changing when I move the fader though. Not sure if they need to I don't really know how to interpret this stuff yet. There are some clues in the wiki but I can't piece it together just yet. How would my fader widget look with this? OR is it actually supposed to be sending values when moving the fader and we have a different kind of problem?

3. Every few seconds, this message comes in,
IN -> OGFP 90 00 7f

No idea why


I tried some things for the fader first and got nowhere.

p.s. Sorry I'm not contributing to the actual conversation yet! I'll get there.

Any clues on this? I tried figuring it out myself over the past day or so but I've come up empty.

The other FP mst's didn't really seem to help (help me personally put the pieces together anyhow)
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:42 AM   #7051
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
This is the forum thread for Beta test discussions
As I expected, Beta test comments get lost in this thread

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-28-2020 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:10 AM   #7052
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
As I expected, Beta test comments get lot in this thread

-Michael
Which comment got lost?

This is the 3rd time in the past couple weeks that I know of you've said something to this effect. Each time has basically been directly after a post of mine.

You seem to want a thread that's much like this one, only it has the word beta in the title and it's less active.

From what I can tell, Geoff and the prominent users are extremely helpful and do a great job with answering questions.

Is it tough to follow? I mean yeah, sometimes. But overall it's done really well IMO.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:15 AM   #7053
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Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
Any clues on this? I tried figuring it out myself over the past day or so but I've come up empty.

The other FP mst's didn't really seem to help (help me personally put the pieces together anyhow)
I'm going through the original Faderport Documentation. Mind you: I don't own the surface, so can't really do the trial and error thing. Looking at the manual though, I see a couple of different operation modes:

1. "Native" mode - I'm assuming this is a proprietary format from Presonus - Not sure if CSI supports it. Might work for all I know, but I'm not sure and since your not seeing any fader activity...

2. "HUI mode" - This is what they recommend for Pro Tools in the manual. Don't think CSI supports HUI since MCU basically followed it and is viewed as the "better" protocol.

3. Then the manual mentions, "Live! Mode," which is the only place in the manual where the words "Mackie Control" are mentioned. Sounds like it might be MCU.

So...with VERY, VERY limited knowledge of which formats CSI does and does not support, and with only a quick skim of the manual for a surface I don't own, my guess is this: you probably want to try setting the device in "Live! Mode." If this is their MCU mode, we know for a fact CSI supports MCU.

What I'd suggest trying is putting the Faderport in Live Mode. From the manual:
Quote:
Once you have installed the FaderPort drivers and connected your FaderPort, press the STOP button to change the FaderPort’s mode of operation. The “OUTPUT” and “UNDO” buttons will begin to flash. Press the “OUTPUT” button to enter LIVE mode, press the “UNDO” button to exit. Once you have pressed the“OUTPUT” button, launch LIVE!
Then see if the Faderport actually works as an MCU device. If so, use the MCU.mst and modify a .zon file to use it as such. You can take a look at the X-Touch zone I posted that takes the 8-channel MCU mst and modifies it for only one-fader using the TrackNavigator, or rig up your own .zon using Selected Track Navigator.

I'm not sure if this is what other Faderport (Classic) users are doing with CSI, but absent any other suggestions, give it a shot! Once you get the faders and other buttons all talking to CSI, then of course, post back if you need help with the .zon.

Last edited by Funkybot; 02-27-2020 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:57 AM   #7054
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm... seems to work here.

I'm sure you've already checked these things but just in case

Are you getting a release Midi message ?

Are you using Touch automation mode ?

Maybe some other config thing ?
Had a chance to investigate a bit further. Turns out it works as expected with the master fader ie drops in and out of Write with fader touch, but not with FocusedFXParam, were it drops in but not out.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:57 AM   #7055
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
As I expected, Beta test comments get lot in this thread

-Michael
It did not get lost, it was just so wide ranging...

Why don't you break up your message in smaller sized chunks, might make it easier to respond
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:01 AM   #7056
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Had a chance to investigate a bit further. Turns out it works as expected with the master fader ie drops in and out of Write with fader touch, but not with FocusedFXParam, were it drops in but not out.
Ok, so TrackNavigator, SelectedTrackNavigator, and MasterTrackNavigator work ?

Just not our old friend FocusedFXNavigator ?
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:10 AM   #7057
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok, so TrackNavigator, SelectedTrackNavigator, and MasterTrackNavigator work ?

Just not our old friend FocusedFXNavigator ?
I would say definitely yes to TrackNavigator and MasterTrackNavigator.

All my FX.zon are SelectedTrackNavigator, wrt FocusedFXParam, does that make it SelectedTrackNavigator or FocusedFXNavigator?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:18 PM   #7058
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Default CSI not installing properly

Hi. I'm trying to set up the CSI beta for my Console 1, but no luck. Tried both on a portable install and my usual one. Windows 10, 64 bit.

I've followed the instructions from the WIKI, but I never get "Control Surface Integrator" to show up in the list under Preferences > Control/OSC/web > Add. Other stuff is there, like "Mackie Control Universal".

My Console 1 is <disabled> under Preferences > MIDI devices.

Any pointers, anyone?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:20 PM   #7059
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Originally Posted by ramses View Post
Hi. I'm trying to set up the CSI beta for my Console 1, but no luck. Tried both on a portable install and my usual one. Windows 10, 64 bit.

I've followed the instructions from the WIKI, but I never get "Control Surface Integrator" to show up in the list under Preferences > Control/OSC/web > Add. Other stuff is there, like "Mackie Control Universal".

My Console 1 is <disabled> under Preferences > MIDI devices.

Any pointers, anyone?
Where did you install reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:23 PM   #7060
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Where did you install reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll?
In the UserPlugins folder. In...

C:\REAPER (portable)\UserPlugins

...and...

C:\Users\olofo\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\UserPlugins

...respectively.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:26 PM   #7061
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In the UserPlugins folder. In...

C:\REAPER (portable)\UserPlugins

...and...

C:\Users\olofo\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\UserPlugins

...respectively.
That looks right, CSI folder in the Roaming\REAPER directory too?
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:28 PM   #7062
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Originally Posted by ramses View Post
In the UserPlugins folder. In...

C:\REAPER (portable)\UserPlugins

...and...

C:\Users\olofo\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\UserPlugins

...respectively.
Might need the VC++ runtime, some folks are saying it isn't complaining like it used to, just silently doesn't work if it is missing.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:28 PM   #7063
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That looks right, CSI folder in the Roaming\REAPER directory too?
Yes it is.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:30 PM   #7064
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Might need the VC++ runtime, some folks are saying it isn't complaining like it used to, just silently doesn't work.
The one linked on the WIKI? This one?

https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/VC_redist.x64.exe

I installed it already. I'll try again.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:34 PM   #7065
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Which comment got lost? ...
Is it tough to follow?
Not at all.

I don't ask for help of any kind, I just want to help with beta testing and that is why I posted a comment on what I found in the Wiki -> https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2250063#7045

You post exactly shows why I proposed to separate this thread (development and help for users) from the discussion regarding Beta testing the software.

Of course in a n ideal world we would have a dedicated subforum for CSI and many threads in there...

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-27-2020 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:38 PM   #7066
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Ok, so I installed a different VC++ version, this one:

https://aka.ms/vs/16/release/vc_redist.x64.exe

And now it works! Thanks. Onwards and upwards.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:57 PM   #7067
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Not at all.

I don't ask for help of any kind, I just want to help with beta testing and that is why I posted a comment on what I found in the Wiki...

You post exactly shows why I proposed to separate this thread (development and help for users) from the discussion regarding Beta testing the software.
Michael, I'd like to help, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at. If you need help getting setup as a new user, post here. If you have questions, post here. If you have questions about the concept, or suggestions on how/where the documentation might be improved, post here.

Regarding your prior post (the long one with all the questions), you're asking a lot of questions about a lot of different things. Let's start small. What's the first thing you'd like to know or have a question on? Once we get through that first question, let's work on the next.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:55 PM   #7068
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Just had a quick look, unfortunately won't be doing this one and it has nothing to do with NRPN.

There is a section just before the NRPN section where they indicate that the transport uses SysEx, Reaper does not support reading SysEx, so it's a non starter, and actually a very poor design choice on AH's part IMHO

Do they have an OSC variant ? -- CSI also speaks OSC.
I think SysEx is just for the transport not for anything else?

When I use the CSI Learn Mode window and enable showing the send data, I can clearly see the messages as they appear in the docs. Is it not able to use that data that it is reading from the board?

I know next to nothing about MIDI so I'm trying to learn as I go here, but it seems like the messages are quite liner and simple to use.

For example, here is a snapshot of what I get when I move the fader for channel 1:



There is only a single value changing depending on the fader position. It seems like that should be simple to parse using the docs they provide:



Wouldn't SysEx have a much longer set of bytes? Also, on doing some reading, shouldnt SysEx messages always start with F0 and end with F7?

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Old 02-27-2020, 08:04 PM   #7069
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Originally Posted by ramses View Post
Ok, so I installed a different VC++ version, this one:

https://aka.ms/vs/16/release/vc_redist.x64.exe

And now it works! Thanks. Onwards and upwards.
Thanks for pointing out the error -- Wiki updated (I Think)
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:12 PM   #7070
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Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
I think SysEx is just for the transport not for anything else?

When I use the CSI Learn Mode window and enable showing the send data, I can clearly see the messages as they appear in the docs. Is it not able to use that data that it is reading from the board?

I know next to nothing about MIDI so I'm trying to learn as I go here, but it seems like the messages are quite liner and simple to use.

For example, here is a snapshot of what I get when I move the fader for channel 1:



There is only a single value changing depending on the fader position. It seems like that should be simple to parse using the docs they provide:



Wouldn't SysEx have a much longer set of bytes? Also, on doing some reading, shouldnt SysEx messages always start with F0 and end with F7?
Can you not use the A+H DAW Control driver and just use the Mackie protocol it provides? (mixer reference guide pg79)
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:14 PM   #7071
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Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
I think SysEx is just for the transport not for anything else?

When I use the CSI Learn Mode window and enable showing the send data, I can clearly see the messages as they appear in the docs. Is it not able to use that data that it is reading from the board?

I know next to nothing about MIDI so I'm trying to learn as I go here, but it seems like the messages are quite liner and simple to use.

For example, here is a snapshot of what I get when I move the fader for channel 1:



There is only a single value changing depending on the fader position. It seems like that should be simple to parse using the docs they provide:



Wouldn't SysEx have a much longer set of bytes? Also, on doing some reading, shouldnt SysEx messages always start with F0 and end with F7?
Yes, are you saying you would be happy to use it without the transport operational ?

If so, sure -- the values you see are typical Mackie Control protocol, except b0 instead of e0.

B0 means fader 1 -- the rest is 2 7 bit values that are translated to a 14 bit value, very standard.

You can make up an .mst file using the values you capture in that Window (don't forget to use cut and paste to avoid errors) -- just make a very simple one at first, then hook it up to a simple .zon file and you're on your way

Take a look at exiting .mst and .zon files for examples and be sure to read the wiki - https://github.com/malcolmgroves/reaper_csi/wiki

Any questions, ask way, pretty friendly bunch around here
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:27 PM   #7072
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yes, are you saying you would be happy to use it without the transport operational ?

If so, sure -- the values you see are typical Mackie Control protocol, except b0 instead of e0.

B0 means fader 1 -- the rest is 2 7 bit values that are translated to a 14 bit value, very standard.

You can make up an .mst file using the values you capture in that Window (don't forget to use cut and paste to avoid errors) -- just make a very simple one at first, then hook it up to a simple .zon file and you're on your way

Take a look at exiting .mst and .zon files for examples and be sure to read the wiki - https://github.com/malcolmgroves/reaper_csi/wiki

Any questions, ask way, pretty friendly bunch around here
Yes, I don't care about transport as its just a digital screen with a play and pause button anyway. Might as well use the DAW.

b0 is not the fader number, it is the midi channel. The last byte of the first message identifies the channel number (in this case 20 = channel 1). The 2nd set designates the function (in this case 17 identifies that we are targeting a fader). the 3rd set gives the value that the fader is at (from 00 to 7f). The 4th is apparently useful for some of the other controls to designate things like mix outputs or something.

The Mackie "DAW Control" is extremely limited on this board. All I get from it is 16 fader strips (with mute, select, pafl buttons). Thats it. None of the rest of the knobs etc can be used with the "DAW Control" system. Plus I only get a single page of faders. If I use the full system, I can use almost every knob and button on the board, even if it is also tweaking the built-in EQ, comp, etc on the board. But for mixing purposes, I dont care if the EQ for channel 1 is all crazy from using the knobs to control the daw rather than the EQ in the board. I can just load up my actual recording scene on the board and use it like it was intended, and then load up a DAW scene where nothing built into the board actually matters to me.

Its definitely not an ideal situation, and I wish A&H had put more thought and effort into making the full board usable with a DAW but this option allows me to get much more comprehensive use out of it than just 16 fader strips, and while kinda hacky, should work for what I want to do.

As far as I can tell, the MIDI stuff is designed to allow something like a SMPTE system to control the board programatically rather than manually mixing, or something similar but where the mixer can send the messages to trigger smpte events. Something like that. But since it allows me to see what the board is doing, I can use it to control the daw. Again its clearly not designed for this but since it exists, it should be doable.

Last edited by KroniK907; 02-27-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:43 PM   #7073
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As a quicker response than the one above, I dont think your Fader7Bit will work as how it parses the messages seems to be incompatible with how the A&H board sends messages.

I need to designate the fader position using the 9th hex value rather than the 3rd.

Unless something like this would work?

Code:
Widget fader1
  Fader7Bit b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 00 b0 26 07   b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 7F b0 26 07
WidgetEnd
Is it smart enough to see that the 9th hex value is what designates the fader position?
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Old 02-28-2020, 12:06 AM   #7074
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If you need help getting setup as a new user, post here. If you have questions, post here. If you have questions about the concept, or suggestions on how/where the documentation might be improved, post here.
In fact neither of all. I want to help developing the "product" by finding glitches in the software and the documentation. That might include suggestions, but first of all just pointing out stuff and maybe then discussing improvements. (IN fact I am a software developer myself, and was involved in lots of Beta testing efforts, as well as developer of the stuff as as tester. Hence I do know what I am speaking about: issue tracking.)

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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Regarding your prior post (the long one with all the questions), you're asking a lot of questions about a lot of different things. Let's start small. What's the first thing you'd like to know or have a question on? Once we get through that first question, let's work on the next.
These would get lost in the mass even more likely and can't be tracked in any sensible way.

Maybe it would be best to even start a new thread for any issue, starting the caption with "CSI Beta". But I don't dare to swamp the forum in that way and perhaps making the admins angry on the CSI project.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-28-2020 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:00 AM   #7075
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Originally Posted by KroniK907 View Post
As a quicker response than the one above, I dont think your Fader7Bit will work as how it parses the messages seems to be incompatible with how the A&H board sends messages.

I need to designate the fader position using the 9th hex value rather than the 3rd.

Unless something like this would work?

Code:
Widget fader1
  Fader7Bit b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 00 b0 26 07   b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 7F b0 26 07
WidgetEnd
Is it smart enough to see that the 9th hex value is what designates the fader position?
Thanks for persevering, my bad, I glanced at the output and made an assumption about MCU.

This is a multi message protocol -- each message being 3 bytes.

CSI only supports single message protocols.

There is no future planned support for anything other than single message protocols.
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:19 AM   #7076
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b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 00 b0 26 07 b0 63 20 b0 62 17 b0 06 7F b0 26 07
This is standard Midi NRPN -> http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm (CC#99/98) defining controller number 2017 hex aka 8215 dec, seemingly in combination with high resolution CC (CC#6/38)
Also see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2250425#7045
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
There is no future planned support for anything other than single message protocols.
Seems like a bad idea, as there are appropriate well defined standards such as Midi RPN, Midi NRPN, High resolution CC, Midi 2.0.
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-28-2020 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:30 AM   #7077
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Is it smart enough to see that the 9th hex value is what designates the fader position?
Supposedly here a high resolution (14 Bit) value is transferred using (up to) two three byte messages. Hence the decoding is more demanding...
-Michael
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:47 AM   #7078
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok, so TrackNavigator, SelectedTrackNavigator, and MasterTrackNavigator work ?

Just not our old friend FocusedFXNavigator ?
What is actually missing/not working/wrong with the
FocusedFXNavigator?
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Old 02-28-2020, 04:56 AM   #7079
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
This is standard Midi NRPN -> http://www.philrees.co.uk/nrpnq.htm (CC#99/98) defining controller number 2017 hex aka 8215 dec, seemingly in combination with high resolution CC (CC#6/38)
Also see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2250425#7045

Seems like a bad idea, as there are appropriate well defined standards such as Midi RPN, Midi NRPN, High resolution CC, Midi 2.0.
-Michael
Yes, but control surface language is not Midi.

Although there is no control language standard, Mackie Control Protocol is very often used.

I would say that support for all these new Midi features will be tepid at best in the controller world -- OSC is the up and coming new kid in town, certainly not Midi 2.0
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Old 02-28-2020, 05:04 AM   #7080
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Supposedly here a high resolution (14 Bit) value is transferred using (up to) two three byte messages. Hence the decoding is more demanding...
-Michael
Incorrect, look more carefully at the spec -- they use 12 bytes to deliver a payload of.. wait for it... 7 bits -- yup, the ninth byte is of range 0-7f -- that's the fader level.

All of that work decoding 4 3 byte messages to get a 7 bit result -- nope we won't be doing that one -- unless it gets VERY popular.

On a side note, I've used A&H since the 70's -- great sounding, well thought out kit

This Midi implementation -- not so much
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