Old 03-08-2019, 07:36 AM   #1
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Default v5.972+dev0308a - March 8 2019

v5.972+dev0308a - March 8 2019
  • + Performance: fix UI lag introduced in 5.972

v5.972+dev0308 - March 8 2019
  • + Audio Units: fix plug-in compatability issue in 5.97 [t=218049]
  • + Audio Units: report recording state if requested
  • + Continuous scrolling: improve item button hit testing
  • + MIDI editor: display CC events as envelopes
  • + MIDI editor: use CC drawing density preference for interpolating (we may want a separate pref for this)
  • + Marquee zoom: fix issues with tracks that have locked height [t=218144]
  • # MIDI editor: avoid repeating the previous CC event value when interpolating
  • # MIDI editor: drawing in CC lane inserts the first event right away, respecting snap if appropriate
  • # MIDI editor: fix inserting events in raw bank or program event lanes
  • # MIDI editor: fix inserting point on existing segment
  • # MIDI editor: fix moving CC segment when there is no time selection [p=2104802]
  • # MIDI editor: fix some velocity editing behaviors
  • # MIDI editor: improve velocity lane hit testing
Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:08 AM   #2
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v5.972+dev0308 - March 8 2019[*]# MIDI editor: fix some velocity editing behaviors[*]# MIDI editor: improve velocity lane hit testing
[/list]Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
Much better the velocity behaviour now, but it is not completelly accurate.
Besides, the number of points (I don't how to call it), when drawing for example expression, is rather huge.

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Old 03-08-2019, 08:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
v5.972+dev0308 - March 8 2019[*]+ MIDI editor: display CC events as envelopes
Wow, awesome! We were just discussing this in the feature-request thread.

Dude, this is awesome.


Bug: I was able to draw outside of the CC lane bounds. Can't seem to remove the points once they are in place.

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Old 03-08-2019, 08:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mordi View Post
Wow, awesome! We were just discussing this in the feature-request thread.
It has already appeared in dev0307 build.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
v5.972+dev0308 - March 8 2019[*]# MIDI editor: fix inserting events in raw bank or program event lanes

Thanks much better now! However i noticed that some points stay there when i click and drag the mouse from right to left to insert a step.

https://gifyu.com/image/3hmB
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:31 AM   #6
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Thanks much better now! However i noticed that some points stay there when i click and drag the mouse from right to left to insert a step.

https://gifyu.com/image/3hmB
Same here.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:12 AM   #7
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Also when a point is on the same position vertically with another,it gets deleted as shown below which is not the same as with automation envelopes when the shape is linear.

And another thing when i click outside of midi items boundaries i can draw points on the envelope.

https://gifyu.com/image/3hqd
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:33 AM   #8
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A cc envelope with a looped midi item isn't displayed correctly
Attached Images
File Type: png cc envelope and looped item (1) (1).PNG (45.4 KB, 139 views)
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:04 AM   #9
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More CC editing weirdness. See attached project file.

Attached Files
File Type: rpp CC lane editing weirdness - 5972+dev0308a.rpp (3.9 KB, 81 views)
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
+ Marquee zoom: fix issues with tracks that have locked height [t=218144]
Thank you for fixing this one.
There is one more issue affecting locked height/marquee zoom combo - REAPER does not scroll properly on vertical axis.

Here is a good way to reproduce it:
1. Create 5 tracks and give them random height.
2. Toggle "Lock Track Height" on for first 4 tracks (green in the licecap below).
3. Marquee zoom the 5th track only (pink in the licecap).

The result is the track does get zoomed in but not scrolled into view fully.
The vertical offset grows the more locked-height-tracks you have or the taller the locked tracks are.

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Old 03-08-2019, 12:07 PM   #11
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UI lag has improved a bit for me, but it is still slightly worse than 5.971. The main issue for me is that if I quickly drag an item, the mouse will keep moving while the item stays in the same place and they will be out of sync. There's a very brief window right when I click on the item where I can still move the mouse without the item moving. This window gets larger the more complex the project gets, but it's definitely much smaller in 5.971.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:02 PM   #12
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The new behaviour in the CC lane drives me crazy. I used to have the ability to unselect all CC events with the mouse, but apparently this isn't possible anymore?

This is the culprit:
Mouse Modifier -> MIDI CC lane -> Edit selected velocities, or freehand draw CC events
This causes the inability to unselect CC events. Instead, CC events are always drawn, no matter where you click in CC lane. Usually, in the Reaper world, using the eraser and clicking in an empty space would clear a selection. Could we have that?

Also my script: "sr_Select all events in CC lane after and under mouse cursor" does some strange things. The CCs get selected, but the curve type is changed from Square to Linear.

EDIT: after some more thought I'd really like the old behavior back as an option.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:10 PM   #13
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wow cc as envelopes! this is gonna be great as it gets the buglets worked out.... thanks
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:41 PM   #14
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  • + MIDI editor: display CC events as envelopes
OMG... Been waiting this for years!
Thanks! It's going to make MIDI editing that much more enjoyable! ^_^

I mean... it's not often that you really need to have that event by event control over things and envelopes just makes thing neater and easier to do.

Last edited by Icchan; 03-08-2019 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Trying to make it neat... :D
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:43 PM   #15
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I"m extremely excited about CCs lanes as envelopes. I do think while it's being worked on and developed, there should be an option for users to work the old way. In the midi editor I think more than anywhere else, there's a lot of scripts users rely on and a lot of thing that aren't tested. Also, in terms of testing, comparing behavior, especially of scripts would be much easier.

Having said that, as this matures, I'm really looking forward to working this way and has been on my sort of "dream" list that I thought would never happen. I think in many ways though this is going to be a bit like automation items and is going to take a while to nail down. So I hope the developers will bear with us while we comment and question and make suggestions as just like automation items, there's going to be some passionate users chiming in lol.

Thanks so much for making this happen!
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
I do think while it's being worked on and developed, there should be an option for users to work the old way.
I do agree somewhat. There should always be the option to go and tweak the individual events like one used to be able to.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
I"m extremely excited about CCs lanes as envelopes. I do think while it's being worked on and developed, there should be an option for users to work the old way. In the midi editor I think more than anywhere else, there's a lot of scripts users rely on and a lot of thing that aren't tested. Also, in terms of testing, comparing behavior, especially of scripts would be much easier.
Yes please, I'm not much of help at the moment, since I had to switch back to dev0225.
Julian Sader's script have taken such a big part in my CC editing.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:00 PM   #18
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midi ed cc as envelopes.... couple things

try this:

make a 10 bars midi item
use the cc lane for pitch
I use the linear shape and create one point at start and one at end
so that the start is the lowest and the end is the highest

OK so far... but now, back in arrange window
shorten the start and end of the item so that it is just 8 bars
[take one bar off the start and one off the end]
now look at the points again in the MIDI Ed.....
I would have expected them to move accordingly to the shorter item
but they do not...

OK so now back in arrange.... glue the item to itself... and then
open it again in the MIDI Ed....
What I see now is many points along the line that used to be just a line between two points....

whachatink?
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:59 PM   #19
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Great thing the MIDI Editor CC Envelopes, I like them so much but I quote the need to have an option to switch between the old and new editing method and maybe it could be useful to have the ability to change this option per track.


Another very useful thing could be the ability to copy the envelope from CC lane to track envelope lane and viceversa. Please think about it devs.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:03 PM   #20
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It is very unlikely we will maintain support for two different ways to represent CC events. However, this new feature is unlikely to be in a final release for several months.

With square envelope segment shapes, the display should hopefully be similar enough between the old bar display and the new style, and ideally the editing methods should be fairly similar as well.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:07 PM   #21
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thanks for that input schwa....

while on the subject, can you tell me what the theme tweaker color is for the cc lane points?

on mine, it is a darkish purple.... OK for when cc's are bars but hard to see when they are points

thanks again
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:09 PM   #22
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Midi cc energy envelope brings tears of joy !
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:25 PM   #23
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Editing Midi like envelopes. It's not even Christmas guys. You've really out done your self with this one. It works great and so far all the fun midi scripts from Julian and others seems to still function as expected.

This solved a whole lot of problems for me. I have an SSL Nucleus MIDI CC controller. The data it spits out is very low resolution. So I've had to get clever with Bome Midi translator to interpolate extra midi CC data point in between the low resolution data. With this new envelope functionality, reaper does the interpolation between the notes for me. BRILLIANT x10000
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
[*]+ MIDI editor: display CC events as envelopes
While we're on this, I `hope hope hope!` we can get CC to show up as a Track Envelope lane without the use of ReaControlMIDI. Or alternatively -- use Automation Items in this new CC envelopes! This gives a choice between two working styles, but why not mash them together?
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
thanks for that input schwa....

while on the subject, can you tell me what the theme tweaker color is for the cc lane points?

on mine, it is a darkish purple.... OK for when cc's are bars but hard to see when they are points

thanks again
for velocity
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=51

@edit
found it
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:52 PM   #26
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While velocity editing actually somewhat works now, it is not smooth at all.

It is very hard to have a smooth vertical drag on the velocity "matchstick". The mouse cursor has to be completely ON the matchstick. As soon as you move the mouse cursor away from the midpoint of the matchstick, it stutters.



We should be able to edit velocities even on the sides of it, when the cursor is not EXACTLY on the matchstick. There needs to be a wider area for this action. FL does it perfectly (screenshot was posted in the previous pre thread).

Editing velocities as in the above GIF is not fun, or fast, it's slow and tedious. I would expect that we should be able to click in the empty space between the two velocity matchsticks and still be able to tweak the closest matchstick!
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #27
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All is not gold here.

I experience a discrepancy between what I play when I record and what is played back from the recording. I am using a Seaboard Block with Equator and thus the issue is exaggerated a lot when it comes to pitch bend. MPE uses a pitch bend range of +-48 semitones, and what may be inaudible with the common range of +-2 semitones results in some very annoying wobble in my setup. Not sure whether CC events have the issue as well.

I don't notice this in dev0307, it started with dev0308. An item recorded in 0308a plays back seemingly fine in 0307, which makes me think it is a playback issue rather than record.

I guess I should try to play some MPE MIDI recorded with an older version in 0308a, but it's way past midnight and I didn't think of that until after I shut down the DAW machine... maybe I have some follow up info tomorrow.

I hope the goal is that recorded events play back truthfully without any interpolation as long as the curvature of points is not changed, right?
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:59 PM   #28
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Also when two notes have exactly the same position, it is impossible to edit the velocity of only one of them, even if they have different velocity values. All of them get collapsed to a single velocity value.

This should, of course, be possible...
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Yes please, I'm not much of help at the moment, since I had to switch back to dev0225.
Julian Sader's script have taken such a big part in my CC editing.
Fortunately, as far as I can tell, my scripts still work fine, except that they do not preserve point shapes, and convert all points to linear.

I predict that, once the scripts are updated and the new envelope-type CCs are officially released, REAPER will *incontestably* have the best MIDI editing of all DAWs!

Last edited by juliansader; 03-08-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also when two notes have exactly the same position, it is impossible to edit the velocity of only one of them, even if they have different velocity values. All of them get collapsed to a single velocity value.

This should, of course, be possible...

It works normal when using default modifier. You surely have custom modifier.

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Old 03-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Fortunately, as far as I can tell, my scripts still work fine, except that they do not preserve point shapes, and convert all points to linear.

I predict that, once the scripts are updated and the new envelope-type CCs are officially released, REAPER will incontestably have the best MIDI editing of all DAWs!
Yes, the conversion from square to linear drives me crazy right now :P

I have acquired special workflow in the last weeks, where I can select the different parts of a curve extremely fast.

Double click = select the whole curve under the mouse cursor
CTRL + double click = select from beginning to mouse cursor
ALT + double click = select from mouse cursor to end




Unfortunately, the new mouse modifiers interfere with the double click.

Could we maybe have the possibility to assign actions to single clicks + modiers? That would definitely solve this.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:16 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by strachupl View Post
It works normal when using default modifier. You surely have custom modifier.

Yes, but all modifiers should work equally when editing velocities (because that just makes sense). I have mentioned the mouse modifiers I use in the previous pre thread.

Also, selecting a note first to edit its velocity should not be a requirement. The matchstick head closest to the mouse cursor should be the one to change, in case of multiple notes with different velocities having the same time position - even if no notes were selected.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
While velocity editing actually somewhat works now, it is not smooth at all.

It is very hard to have a smooth vertical drag on the velocity "matchstick". The mouse cursor has to be completely ON the matchstick. As soon as you move the mouse cursor away from the midpoint of the matchstick, it stutters.



We should be able to edit velocities even on the sides of it, when the cursor is not EXACTLY on the matchstick. There needs to be a wider area for this action. FL does it perfectly (screenshot was posted in the previous pre thread).

Editing velocities as in the above GIF is not fun, or fast, it's slow and tedious. I would expect that we should be able to click in the empty space between the two velocity matchsticks and still be able to tweak the closest matchstick!

I agree. Currently it seems depend on grid set.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:22 PM   #34
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It's still glitchy/stuttery even in your example. It should be smooth like butter. The reason why it's glitchy is that the velocity value is updated only on horizontal mouse movement (unless you're directly on the matchstick), which makes no sense at all. It should always be updated on vertical mouse movement - regardless if you're on the matchstick, or around it. THAT will be smooth velocity editing that FL and other DAWs have.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's still glitchy/stuttery even in your example. It should be smooth like butter. The reason why it's glitchy is that the velocity value is updated only on horizontal mouse movement (unless you're directly on the matchstick), which makes no sense at all. It should always be updated on vertical mouse movement - regardless if you're on the matchstick, or around it. THAT will be smooth velocity editing that FL and other DAWs have.
It is glitchy on gif because it is in 3 fps but surely draggable area should be whole space between events/until next event.
As to the matter of same position velocities I think it is proper. In this purpose "Edit selected velocities, or freehand draw CC events" should be used.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:48 PM   #36
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[*]+ Marquee zoom: fix issues with tracks that have locked height [t=218144]
I hope this is related closely enough to mention. Marquee zoom including middle compaction state folder child tracks causes them to be zoomed the same as non compacted tracks.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168943
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:22 PM   #37
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(unless you're directly on the matchstick).
I want everyone to start calling them lollipops. I mean it's a real technical term since a "lollipop graph/chart" is often used when discussing DSP and sampling where these lollipops represent instantaneous value of a signal

Mathworks calls them "stems" for example: https://www.mathworks.com/help/matlab/ref/stem.html

But lollipop sounds more fun
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:31 PM   #38
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It's beautiful The MIDI velocity lines (sticks? stems?), and the CC envelopes. Never thought I'd see the day!

Is it possible to separately control the colour of the inside of the circle on top of the velocity line? Ideally, to match with the way the Commala theme MIDI editor is set up, I'd like to be able to theme these elements so that the circles are filled with solid colour when UNselected, and then black inside the circle when selected.

Currently, the circles are empty when unselected and filled when selected.

Not a big deal, but just posting now because it's early, and also because the MIDI note colour map possibly already allows for this?

Thanks to Strachupl btw, for pointing out how to adjust the colour of the lines themselves when selected, in general.


Edit: Just saw the previous comments regarding matchsticks vs lollipops. I vote matchsticks. Sorry Icchan :P Although the technical standard in DSP that you mentioned, this is persuasive too...

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Old 03-08-2019, 11:50 PM   #39
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Gluing two midi items creates an envelope point outside CC lane.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:00 AM   #40
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Quote:
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While velocity editing actually somewhat works now, it is not smooth at all.

It is very hard to have a smooth vertical drag on the velocity "matchstick". The mouse cursor has to be completely ON the matchstick. As soon as you move the mouse cursor away from the midpoint of the matchstick, it stutters.



We should be able to edit velocities even on the sides of it, when the cursor is not EXACTLY on the matchstick. There needs to be a wider area for this action. FL does it perfectly (screenshot was posted in the previous pre thread).

Editing velocities as in the above GIF is not fun, or fast, it's slow and tedious. I would expect that we should be able to click in the empty space between the two velocity matchsticks and still be able to tweak the closest matchstick!
Thank you for explaining perfectly what I Meant in the first post of the thread when I said that the velocity behaviour is not accurate.

Velocity works well when you select the velocity line with the mouse just on middle of the line and you don't stop pressing the mouse button. IF you don't do it like that it won't work well (as in this video): 1) Behaviour one works well 2)Behaviour doesn't work well.

https://vimeo.com/322416879

Last edited by Vagalume; 03-09-2019 at 04:51 AM.
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