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Old 06-02-2020, 10:18 AM   #1
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Default Music libraries / Publishing question

on ascap it says its better to have publishing account as well
https://pasteboard.co/JbfH7wv.png

but how do i know if i am the publisher or not

for example if i sell music on audiojungle.......is audiojungle the publisher, so therefore i don't need the publishing account?
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:57 AM   #2
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Interesting question. I would say that both could be possible a) either AudioJungle is the publisher, since they make your music public or b) AJ is "only" the platform and you are still the publisher, since an "official publisher" would rather be some kind of dedicated publishing company.

Maybe you should ask ASCAP about this. Maybe user in this forum know more. I am also interested to know an answer here, hehe.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:49 AM   #3
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Interesting question. I would say that both could be possible a) either AudioJungle is the publisher, since they make your music public or b) AJ is "only" the platform and you are still the publisher, since an "official publisher" would rather be some kind of dedicated publishing company.

Maybe you should ask ASCAP about this. Maybe user in this forum know more. I am also interested to know an answer here, hehe.
thanks for your reply, i was thinking kind of in the same lines as that

btw do you give out music to music libraries? i'm thinking to start composing for that but i'm still not sure....

i can't see any other way into the music industry
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:18 AM   #4
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btw do you give out music to music libraries? i'm thinking to start composing for that but i'm still not sure....

i can't see any other way into the music industry
I think digging into production music a nice way already, so yeah: just do it! I sell music on three different platforms so far; two agencies and AudioJungle as well.

... but regarding AudioJungle: it's a very strange thing there. On the one site there are great titles on the platform, on the other site there is so much bad music, speaking of quality. Also I would say, ... maybe 80-90% of music just sound the same there. And the thing is: AudioJungle only (or at least mainly) accepts music which fits into these 80-90% according to my experience.

They already rejected some of my tracks, without giving feedback "why exactly" so that I had to ask the community, which also just does wild guessing then. I do such production music thing for around 13 years now (maybe longer). With AudioJungle only for about a couple of months and I must say, I find it rather suspect often times. I also almost never got rejects on any other agencies or platforms I was on (only once). So ... AudioJungle is just a weird place I get rejects regularly. I guess, if you are into "sounding like everyone else" and if you do not really like to experiment and moreover develop further, AudioJungle might not be the best platform.

Also another thing (I probably should put into some kind of "experience" blog post or so) --> I even made some experiments. For example I made an cliché ukulele track, which got accepted. Then I opened the project and did almost a 1:1 copy of it with just a different key and tempo and slightly different melody; TWICE. Both tracks were accepted as well. ... so I think this might speak for itself.

I, personally, will test it for a bit longer, but in the end (or at least for now already!) it might just be a waste of time, since the hours I put into producing the music is not paid out yet ... probably I am just not mainstream enough ...
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:42 AM   #5
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I think digging into production music a nice way already, so yeah: just do it! I sell music on three different platforms so far; two agencies and AudioJungle as well.

... but regarding AudioJungle: it's a very strange thing there. On the one site there are great titles on the platform, on the other site there is so much bad music, speaking of quality. Also I would say, ... maybe 80-90% of music just sound the same there. And the thing is: AudioJungle only (or at least mainly) accepts music which fits into these 80-90% according to my experience.

They already rejected some of my tracks, without giving feedback "why exactly" so that I had to ask the community, which also just does wild guessing then. I do such production music thing for around 13 years now (maybe longer). With AudioJungle only for about a couple of months and I must say, I find it rather suspect often times. I also almost never got rejects on any other agencies or platforms I was on (only once). So ... AudioJungle is just a weird place I get rejects regularly. I guess, if you are into "sounding like everyone else" and if you do not really like to experiment and moreover develop further, AudioJungle might not be the best platform.

Also another thing (I probably should put into some kind of "experience" blog post or so) --> I even made some experiments. For example I made an cliché ukulele track, which got accepted. Then I opened the project and did almost a 1:1 copy of it with just a different key and tempo and slightly different melody; TWICE. Both tracks were accepted as well. ... so I think this might speak for itself.

I, personally, will test it for a bit longer, but in the end (or at least for now already!) it might just be a waste of time, since the hours I put into producing the music is not paid out yet ... probably I am just not mainstream enough ...

you have a great variety! very cool stuff...

another thing is the metadata and IPI information....

they say its good to include them on audiojungle too so that if a company uses it on FILM/TV to file in a cue with your information...for back end royalties

do you include that info?

thanks for your answers
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:39 AM   #6
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I am no member of an official PRO right now (only in the C3S, who still have to be accepted by the german state ...) and thus have no numbers / IDs for my works, except my personal IDs from my personal work database. It's not mandatory anyway on AJ. All my audio files do have the metadata I find neccessary; everything else is being entered in the submission form of AJ.

Moreover I doubt that big film companies buy their tracks on AJ. They probably rather buy at on more "reputable" agencies than such a "hey get everything for the cheapest price and everything sounds the same"-platform like Audiojungle.
(that's why I'm glad that I am at two other agencies as well, which are a bit more serious after all; Proudmusiclibrary and AudioAhead).
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:51 AM   #7
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There are 3 basic kinds of Music Library business models - Exclusive, Non-Exclusive and Royalty Free.
If you have a song titled Summer's Here and want to submit it to a Music Library, you have to make the choice:


Exclusive: i.e. Megatrax, Opening Line, FirstCom... will act as the publisher for your tracks. You assign the publishing rights to any track you sign with them. They will register Summer's Here with your PRO and list them as the publisher. They will generally not retitle the track unless they feel there is a better, more suitable Title - more marketable and such. You assign them permission to market that cue and only them. You can not submit that cue to another Library. Depending on your agreement, you may be able to submit directly to Music Supervisors or sell a CD of your band playing the cue and such. But for sync purposes, you generally agree to let the Library do that work to the exclusion of all others.

Non-Exclusive. i.e. Crucial, Mibe, Scorekeepers (although many of the NE library are switching over the Exclusive deals) In this scenario you submit Summer's Here to the Library and they will retitle it and register it with your PRO under the new name. You assign publishing rights to this title only. for instance, they may simply call it FD_Summer's Here (adding a simple prefix or suffix) and register that title. Or they may change it completely - everything in between.

With a NE deal, you are free to submit that song to another NE library or Royalty Free Library with a different title. So maybe you submit to Library A called Summer's Here, and to Library B as Here Comes Summer and so on as many times as you want. In my opinion, this is a very bad practice - one to be avoided. But I have friends who have done this in the past and had success.

In both the Exclusive and NE deals, the Library generally prefers you not register your cue with your PRO listing you as the Publisher so there is no need to get a Publisher's account with ASCAP or BMI or SEASAC in these cases.

Royalty Free sites i.e. AudioJungle, Pond5...(its been a long time since I have visited those libraries, so they may have changed their model) generally don't pay backend royalties - hence the Royalty Free moniker. You get a flat fee up front and that is all you get. No PRO is involved - no backend payments. In my opinion, this is the worst of the three. You could register this track with your PRO (both writer and publisher) but generally it won't matter. I know very few production companies that utilize royalty free music. Maybe there is income generated by YouTube or such, I am not into that so I don't know.

So to directly answer your question, basically the times a Publishing account with the PRO comes into play is when you are dealing directly with Music Supervisors, not library (some exceptions to this, but beyond the scope of this post). It's easy enough to add a Publisher Account with the PRO when the time comes. Generally speaking, I don't think you need to have a Pub account if you are doing Library music work. Again, there are times when you will need it - I have both a writers and pub account with BMI - but it is easy enough to do when needed.

Cheers!
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:17 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by kaylec View Post
There are 3 basic kinds of Music Library business models - Exclusive, Non-Exclusive and Royalty Free.
If you have a song titled Summer's Here and want to submit it to a Music Library, you have to make the choice:


Exclusive: i.e. Megatrax, Opening Line, FirstCom... will act as the publisher for your tracks. You assign the publishing rights to any track you sign with them. They will register Summer's Here with your PRO and list them as the publisher. They will generally not retitle the track unless they feel there is a better, more suitable Title - more marketable and such. You assign them permission to market that cue and only them. You can not submit that cue to another Library. Depending on your agreement, you may be able to submit directly to Music Supervisors or sell a CD of your band playing the cue and such. But for sync purposes, you generally agree to let the Library do that work to the exclusion of all others.

Non-Exclusive. i.e. Crucial, Mibe, Scorekeepers (although many of the NE library are switching over the Exclusive deals) In this scenario you submit Summer's Here to the Library and they will retitle it and register it with your PRO under the new name. You assign publishing rights to this title only. for instance, they may simply call it FD_Summer's Here (adding a simple prefix or suffix) and register that title. Or they may change it completely - everything in between.

With a NE deal, you are free to submit that song to another NE library or Royalty Free Library with a different title. So maybe you submit to Library A called Summer's Here, and to Library B as Here Comes Summer and so on as many times as you want. In my opinion, this is a very bad practice - one to be avoided. But I have friends who have done this in the past and had success.

In both the Exclusive and NE deals, the Library generally prefers you not register your cue with your PRO listing you as the Publisher so there is no need to get a Publisher's account with ASCAP or BMI or SEASAC in these cases.

Royalty Free sites i.e. AudioJungle, Pond5...(its been a long time since I have visited those libraries, so they may have changed their model) generally don't pay backend royalties - hence the Royalty Free moniker. You get a flat fee up front and that is all you get. No PRO is involved - no backend payments. In my opinion, this is the worst of the three. You could register this track with your PRO (both writer and publisher) but generally it won't matter. I know very few production companies that utilize royalty free music. Maybe there is income generated by YouTube or such, I am not into that so I don't know.

So to directly answer your question, basically the times a Publishing account with the PRO comes into play is when you are dealing directly with Music Supervisors, not library (some exceptions to this, but beyond the scope of this post). It's easy enough to add a Publisher Account with the PRO when the time comes. Generally speaking, I don't think you need to have a Pub account if you are doing Library music work. Again, there are times when you will need it - I have both a writers and pub account with BMI - but it is easy enough to do when needed.

Cheers!
kc
Hey KC thank you for your input....very informative! I've read somewhere in some forum that some ppl in audiojungle were getting back end royalties....not sure if that was by accident though. Will have to read further on this

one question...when i finish a track i register it 50% writer and 50% publishing in my ASCAP details. i made both writer/publisher accounts. Btw i'm just learning, barely have 1 track right now but anyway,

i think form bmi it would be 100% and 100% if i remember correctly.

Now if a company wants the publishing and i agree to it..i have to go back into my ASCAP account and change my 50% publishing share to their name, is this correct?
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:53 AM   #9
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Hey KC thank you for your input....very informative! I've read somewhere in some forum that some ppl in audiojungle were getting back end royalties....not sure if that was by accident though. Will have to read further on this

one question...when i finish a track i register it 50% writer and 50% publishing in my ASCAP details. i made both writer/publisher accounts. Btw i'm just learning, barely have 1 track right now but anyway,

i think form bmi it would be 100% and 100% if i remember correctly.

Now if a company wants the publishing and i agree to it..i have to go back into my ASCAP account and change my 50% publishing share to their name, is this correct?
Correct. If you have registered the cue and is accepted by a Library, it will need to be changed. This is why most libraries prefer you not register the cue before hand. All of the libraries I work for register the cue in both their names as publisher and my name as writer.

I don't think it is as simple as you logging in to make the change. I believe it has to come from the publisher. Otherwise you could simple remove a publisher that you no longer like and "cheat" them out of their share. And of course, the Publisher will have to get permission from you to make the change for the same reason. It can be a lot of back and forth. I know at least one library that won't accept a cue that is already registered for this very reason. It just isn't worth the effort for them when it can all be avoided in the beginning.

My advice - if you are writing a cue for placement in a Library - don't register it with your PRO. Once it is accepted into the Library they will do that part for you.

BMI vs ASCAP naming conventions: Yes, ASCAP devides a cue as 50% writers share 50% publishers share. BMI divides it as 100% writers share 100% publishers share. Potato/poTahto - same thing, just different nomenclature
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:56 AM   #10
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Hey KC thank you for your input....very informative! I've read somewhere in some forum that some ppl in audiojungle were getting back end royalties....not sure if that was by accident though. Will have to read further on this
You're welcome.

There may be cases where writers are getting back end from RF libraries - but I think it is an exception and not the general rule. Again, I haven't dealt with RF in years, so my understanding maybe outdated. But it is right there in the name: ROYALITY free - meaning the end user doesn't have to pay a royalty and the writers doesn't see anything on the back end.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:29 AM   #11
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You're welcome.

There may be cases where writers are getting back end from RF libraries - but I think it is an exception and not the general rule. Again, I haven't dealt with RF in years, so my understanding maybe outdated. But it is right there in the name: ROYALITY free - meaning the end user doesn't have to pay a royalty and the writers doesn't see anything on the back end.

Cool thanks!!!!!!!!!
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