Old 01-05-2011, 11:19 PM   #1
cosmoganic
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Default Direct Monitoring Latency Issue

Hello again folks,

I want to monitor my vocals in headphones as I record vocal tracks with reverb on them, which I can now do. I have a problem now though with latency.

When I tick the "Monitor input" option upon right clicking the record arm button, there is a delay on my voice.

I am recording through an M-Audio fast track pro through a laptop.

Is there a way in reaper to solve this latency problem?

my interface has 2 TRS in and 2 TRS out sockets, Would it be possible to hook up a guitar reverb pedal for monitoring only?

Thank you all,
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:19 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by cosmoganic View Post
Is there a way in reaper to solve this latency problem?
You have the Fast Track's ASIO driver installed, right?

Now, go into Preferences > Audio Device, click "ASIO Configuration" and lower the setting that has to do with the buffer. This should permit you lower latency, but at the cost of less stability, too low latency can introduce pops, clicks and cracks...



(Pic from http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...s_Audio_Device)

In your case it should say something with "M-AUDIO USB ASIO" right next to where it says "ASIO Driver" in the pic above.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:44 AM   #3
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...and in addition use a Reverb plugin with low latency during recording! Might not be the best sounding, though. But you can change that during mixdown anyway.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:32 AM   #4
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Hmm, checked that but the buffer is already set at its lowest setting, 128,

any other suggestions?
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:25 AM   #5
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asio4all lets you drop the latency lower you should try that..http://www.asio4all.com/

and its just great anyway
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmoganic View Post
Hmm, checked that but the buffer is already set at its lowest setting, 128,

any other suggestions?
What exactly is the reverb unit you are using?
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stupeT View Post
What exactly is the reverb unit you are using?
Yes and check the fx chain windows bottom left corner as it will tell you if the reverb is adding additional latency. Look for reverbs that give a number of zero
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:38 PM   #8
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At 128 the buffer is already starting to induce the occasional crackle and pop in the playback so I really dont want to bring it down any lower with Asio4all,

I have been using the waves Rverb and cockos verbs but the problem is present before I even add any effect,

As soon as I monitor the input I can hear my voice is delayed from the actual vocal,

Like this

Check 123
.......Check 123

Hello Hello
.......Hello Hello

Surely there is another solution to this problem?
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:53 PM   #9
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Well, the Fast Track pro should be able to let you monitor through reaper, so... What computer are you using? Laptop? Old one? Give us some specs...
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #10
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My laptop is about 3 yrs old,

windows 7 32bit
intel core duo 1.87ghz
2gb RAM

How do you monitor through reaper?
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:06 PM   #11
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If you are using a direct monitoring solution you should NOT be listening to the vocal track through reaper(software monitor).

Here's the video http://tutorialsforreaper.com/2010/1...re-monitoring/

For direct monitoring you should ONLY have the reverb channels monitoring clicked and make sure you use a plugin with little to no delay.

Keep in mind that the reverb channel will have the same latency as your interface dependent on the buffer. which is ok because you would usually have a 15-30m pre-delay on reverb anyways.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:27 PM   #12
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Hi again,

I am monitoring the second way on the video, but the problem still remains, the reverb channels signal is delayed just the same as I mentioned before so it's useless to use for monitoring my vocals as it is out of time.

Ive tried adjusting the pre-delay on the reverb plug ins (waves rverb, cockos verbs etc) and had no luck there,
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:37 PM   #13
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Monitoring through Reaper will have some delay for the asio buffer. If you want to monitor with much less delay, use direct monitoring via the M-audio panel, but turn off monitoring in Reaper. You won't have any fx, but you won't have a really noticable delay either. If you need fx during monitoring, you could use a small mixer and reverb unit before your interface.

Which reminds me, we still don't have direct monitoring within Reaper.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:15 AM   #14
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It doesn't seem that my m-audio software has that option, I wonder if i could use a guitar reverb pedal some how the fast track pro has 2TRS ins and outs and a digital in and out.

I cant believe such a simple thing is so difficult to do.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:24 AM   #15
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As long as you have your interface set like this.


And you are only software monitoring the reverb... i can't see why you would be having latency.. unless the pre delay on the reverb is at like 150 ms. A buffer of 128 should ALMOST be software monitorable.

I checked on Rverb and it reports Zero latency, and I also did a listening test with Setup 2(direct Monitoring) and it sounds like it should.

Sorry this is being such an issue... I wonder if you have some setting whacked out in Reaper.

Skype me or something so I can try to work this out for you.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:46 PM   #16
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Thanks so much for all this help,

Here is my exact process,

so condenser mic into fast track pro then usb from fast track to laptop.

Open reaper,

insert 2 tracks,

click "io" tab on track and send track 1 to track 2,

put waves reverb on track 2 and enable "monitor input" and disable recording.

fast track mix knob is half way as in picture.

talk in to mic with headphones on.

reverb signal from track 2 is delayed as is the track 2 signal even without a reverb added.

Is there any step I am missing that you can see,

Thanks again cosmoganic =)
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:42 PM   #17
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Well with direct monitoring... you should be able to have no tracks... and hear the voice with out delay.

Try this with the mix knob in the middle...

1 track for vocals.. record with no monitoring - what do you hear?
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:09 PM   #18
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When I do that I can hear my voice through the headphones, that's right, but it's when i click the monitor input option on the track that I get the doubling, and i dont think theres a way to hear the reverb without clicking the monitor input option.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:05 PM   #19
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Ok. So you need to use the mix knob to blend the reverb sound with the direct sound. Its normal for reverb to be delayed from 15-35ms... also.. make sure the reverb plugin is 100%wet and 0% dry(only reverb coming out of the reverb channel).
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:56 PM   #20
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I can use the mix knob to adjust the mix of the reverb without a problem but the reverb is still delayed.

I have 2 recording set ups, the one with the problem is the fast track pro and laptop and thats in the closet for vocals

The other is an m-audio fast track ultra 8R through a desktop PC,

I can do all this fine the same way as I previously described on the ultra 8R setup with no delay issues but where I need the reverb for vocal tracking in the closet I can't seem to achieve it without the delay problem.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:14 PM   #21
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The only thing I can think of is that the interface on the laptop has major latency... but you said it was set to a buffer of 128 which shouldn't have bad latency. I'm puzzled on this one...

If you do software monitoring for vocals.. is it super delayed like you mentioned before? Also.. you don't have any plugins on the master channel do you?
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #22
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No fx on the master channel, Im not exactly sure of the difference between direct monitoring and software monitoring, both ways the reverb is software,
thanks again for all this help,
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:40 PM   #23
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Software monitoring you are listening to the signal after it passed grin analog to digital... through Reaper... back out from digital to analog. That's where latency comes from.

Direct monitoring you are listening only to your interface. Software has nothing to do with it.

You should let me remote access into you system so I can make sure all is well with your settings.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmoganic View Post
I have 2 recording set ups, the one with the problem is the fast track pro and laptop and thats in the closet for vocals

The other is an m-audio fast track ultra 8R through a desktop PC,
So, on your desktop it works fine, on your laptop not. Right?

I'd guess your laptop is under-speced. What OS (XP, Vista, W7 ?) is on the laptop? What type is teh laptop (HP, Dell, Acer...)? I've had serious problems getting low-latency monitoring through Dell laptops, the newer the worse...

Why not try switching audio devices between the laptop and the desktop, see if that solves anything (I doubt it).

Also, to make it clear... with direct monitoring the signal you hear is not routed through the computer, so there will be (cannot be) any reverb on that sound.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:34 AM   #25
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Default Direct Asio Monitoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Monitoring through Reaper will have some delay for the asio buffer. If you want to monitor with much less delay, use direct monitoring via the M-audio panel, but turn off monitoring in Reaper. You won't have any fx, but you won't have a really noticable delay either. If you need fx during monitoring, you could use a small mixer and reverb unit before your interface.

Which reminds me, we still don't have direct monitoring within Reaper.
I hoped V4 will bring Direct Asio Monitoring, cross our fingers...

Please vote the FR here is the link :

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=239

Regards.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:33 PM   #26
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I suppose it probably is the laptop

here's the specs,


My Toshibs laptop is about 3 yrs old,

windows 7 32bit
intel core duo 1.87ghz
2gb RAM.

Does any one know if I could hook up an external reverb unit to the M-audio fast track pro to monitor with the reverb but not record the reverb?
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:30 AM   #27
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Awesome got it working,
All I did was,
Mic into interface, lead from an output of interface into behringer guitar reverb pedal, lead from reverb pedal into aux in on a 4 channel mixer and headphones into mixer.

of course theirs reverb on everything pre recorded now as I listen back and monitor but for cutting vocal track it's the way to go.

I can just plug the headphone back into the interface when I want to listen back.

Thanks Guys,
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