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06-18-2019, 08:17 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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860 EVO SSD As External Drive ?
Lately there have been lots of questions about SSDs ... here's another:
Let's say I happen to have a couple of spare Samsung 860 EVO SSD SATA drives lying around that I want to use as external drives (either for backing up the internal SSD data, or perhaps as portable drives from PC to PC).
1) Is it worth getting an enclosure for them? Or should I just connect directly to the SATA port on the drive without bothering with an enclosure?
2) My DAW PC doesn't have any external SATA ports, but several unused internal ones. Is there a good way to make use of an internal SATA port to connect to an external drive? I guess I'd like to avoid opening the door on the case to connect/disconnect the external drive every time I want to use it.
3) Assuming the answer to the above question is no, is it worth getting a SATA PCI card with external eSATA ports and using a SATA-to-eSATA cable? Or is it better to just get a SATA-to-USB cable and connect the 860 EVO to USB what I need to make a back up?
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
Last edited by lunker; 06-18-2019 at 08:26 AM.
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06-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Yep, go with an enclosure. USB 3 or Thunderbolt (if you have TB). Much less hassle. eSATA seems a bit dead unfortunately.
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06-18-2019, 09:26 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 211
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I use a bare 860 EVO with a SATA to USB 3.0 cable, and it works extremely well. I can record directly to it, in a pinch, or I can use it as my backup drive.
My typical workflow is to record my session to an internal drive, and during breaks or at the end of the day, I'll dump a backup to the 860 EVO.
To answer your questions directly:
1) You don't need an enclosure for the drive. I use the bare drive and it works great for me.
2) I have personally avoided this set up. As you stated, it seems like a big hassle.
3) If your machine doesn't have USB 3.0 ports, I think it's a better investment to get a PCI card with a bunch of USB 3.0 ports.
__________________
How can you tell the stage is level? . . . The drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.
Audiosyncrasy.com - Custom drum tracks for your project.
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06-18-2019, 09:53 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Thanks! Good advice from both of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiosyncrasy
My typical workflow is to record my session to an internal drive, and during breaks or at the end of the day, I'll dump a backup to the 860 EVO.
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That's pretty much what I plan to do, too. My MB does have some unused USB 3.0 ports, so I'll go with SATA-to-USB.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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06-18-2019, 10:16 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Some SATA to USB adapters allow trim commands through to the drive. Most don't, although that is changing fairly quickly as SSD's take over.
Last edited by drumphil; 06-18-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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06-18-2019, 11:53 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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If you get a drive cloner like an ORICO it will work as an exterior
hard drive enclosure and also let you clone your "C" drive so you have a back up.
Grinder
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06-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Thanks! Did not realize that.
After a little Googling, I'm not sure to tell if my USB allows TRIM commands for SSD. How do I check?
This is the way I know how to check whether TRIM is enabled (0 is enabled):
Code:
C:\Users\Me>fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
NTFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)
ReFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)
But I'm not sure how to tell if the USB connection allows it. Do I just change dir to the USB drive (E:\), and run the 'fsutil' command there? Or is it more complicated than that?
EDIT -- Not at a computer that has a USB SSD right now, or I would try it. But I'm still not sure if the results would tell me that the USB allows it, or if 'fsutil' is just returning an OS-level setting that may or may not get used with the USB drive.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
Last edited by lunker; 06-18-2019 at 12:03 PM.
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06-18-2019, 01:05 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Montréal, Québec province in Canada
Posts: 150
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Using a 500 EVO 860 in external Orico USB3 enclosure: around 300 MBP/s speeds, not bad!
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06-18-2019, 01:42 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
If you get a drive cloner like an ORICO it will work as an exterior
hard drive enclosure and also let you clone your "C" drive so you have a back up.
Grinder
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Thanks.
What is the difference/advantage of using something like an ORICO cloner over just using a USB-to-SATA cable to connect the drive and the Samsung cloning software?
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
Last edited by lunker; 06-18-2019 at 01:49 PM.
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06-18-2019, 02:03 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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I think from memory the sata might be 5GB-6GB
Do not quote me on that
Seriously with USB 3 I have no trouble running
BFD3 and Spectrasonics Omnisphere and Keyscape
no bother at all.
Grinder
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06-18-2019, 02:10 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
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yep get a good USB 3 HD dock... the good ones will also handle very large spinning disc and you can so easily swap drives in and out...
I have one made by cineraid and it works great... bandhphoto.com
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06-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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@grinder,
That's not quite what I was asking.
Either way you're going from USB (on the PC) to as SATA connection on the SSD. The ORICO looks (to me) like just a fancy USB-to-SATA adapter.
I'm not sure what the advantage is over just using a simple UBB-to-SATA cable (like this https://www.amazon.com/SATA-Drive-Ad.../dp/B07FDTY299), and then using the cloning software from Samsung.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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06-18-2019, 09:29 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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I am not sure that you can clone your C drive with the drive connected
to the computer.
Having a dock you can take your c drive out and clone it in a Dock.
Correct me if I am wrong.
I was looking at it from your perspective when I was going for such a thing I have many SATA points in my computer.
Maybe I have that wrong?
Grinder
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06-18-2019, 10:33 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
I am not sure that you can clone your C drive with the drive connected to the computer.
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Sure you can.
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06-19-2019, 12:57 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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Okay great how do you do that?
Can it share the same drive letter EvilDragon?
Grinder
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06-19-2019, 05:40 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
Okay great how do you do that?
Can it share the same drive letter EvilDragon?
Grinder
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I use Macrium Reflect. With Reflect you can make a bootable USB or it has a boot option which can be enabled where once enabled, on startup you can select to boot to Windows or to Macrium Reflect. Reflect uses Windows PE to boot.
The point being is that you're not booting into Windows which resides on the C Drive and then Reflect has all the tools to either create a HDD Clone or an image file.
Last edited by Rednroll; 06-19-2019 at 06:13 AM.
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06-19-2019, 05:49 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
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Also, what I have found with most SSDs, the bottle neck in read/write tends to be the actual interface.
So if you are putting a SATA SSD into a USB case or using a conversion cable the speed of the USB bus tends to be the limiting factor.
If your PC has USB 3.1 "Gen 2" ports, you will typically get double read/write speeds from the external SSD as you would if connecting it to a USB 3.0 or USB 3.1 "Gen1" port.
I found in my SSD testing that a SATA 3 connection will get you slightly faster results as a USB 3.0/3.1 Gen 1 connected SSD.
You be the judge.
SSD connected directly to internal SATA III interface connection.
SSD connected to external USB 3.0/3.1 Gen 1 interface connection.
With both of those SSDs, it's actually a SanDisk M.2 NVMe X600 SSD inside a SanDisk interface case.
A USB 3.1 "Gen 2" interface connection should be faster than both.
Last edited by Rednroll; 06-19-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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06-19-2019, 06:27 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
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These are speeds you can see with a USB 3.1 "Gen 2" interface connection. Notice how it's about twice as fast as my USB 3.1 "Gen 1" interface connection drive test.
Note these are all M.2 NVMe drives placed inside of interface cases. If you're using a SATA III drive in an external case, then the actual drive will likely be the bottle neck.
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06-19-2019, 08:04 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Thanks! I do have a spare 3.1 Gen 2 port I can use for this. But the drives in question are all SATA III -- so it looks like that may be the limiting factor.
Either way, you all have educated me a little more about details I was not familiar with. Thanks to all!
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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06-20-2019, 05:40 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunker
Thanks! I do have a spare 3.1 Gen 2 port I can use for this. But the drives in question are all SATA III -- so it looks like that may be the limiting factor.
Either way, you all have educated me a little more about details I was not familiar with. Thanks to all!
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I'ld be interested to see a CrystalDiskMark speed test with that setup once you get the interface box for the 860 Evo.
I'm guessing it will clock in somewhere between 300-550 MB/sec.
I got an SSK enclosure for one of my NVMe SSDs on Amazon. They were the least expensive, while being highly rated. I would imagine the one I linked below is the correct one for the 860 EVO. I got the same speeds from the SSK enclosure as my SanDisk Extreme external SSD but my limiting factor was my 3.1 Gen 1 ports on both as noted.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MKCG5ZG..._t2_B07MNFH1PX
Last edited by Rednroll; 06-20-2019 at 05:45 AM.
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06-20-2019, 06:36 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Thanks!
I'm expecting a call today that my new DAW PC is ready. My priority is getting all the music-related stuff installed/setup/configured and working, so it might be a while before I get around to testing the speed of the external SSD.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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06-20-2019, 09:36 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunker
Thanks! Did not realize that.
After a little Googling, I'm not sure to tell if my USB allows TRIM commands for SSD. How do I check?
This is the way I know how to check whether TRIM is enabled (0 is enabled):
Code:
C:\Users\Me>fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
NTFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)
ReFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)
But I'm not sure how to tell if the USB connection allows it. Do I just change dir to the USB drive (E:\), and run the 'fsutil' command there? Or is it more complicated than that?
EDIT -- Not at a computer that has a USB SSD right now, or I would try it. But I'm still not sure if the results would tell me that the USB allows it, or if 'fsutil' is just returning an OS-level setting that may or may not get used with the USB drive.
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I don't know the answer to that. That's why I make sure I check before I buy one. I know Startech make trim compatible adapters, and most of their newer models support it.
edit: hang on, I forgot TrimCheck.
https://github.com/CyberShadow/trimcheck
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06-20-2019, 10:31 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
I don't know the answer to that. That's why I make sure I check before I buy one. I know Startech make trim compatible adapters, and most of their newer models support it.
edit: hang on, I forgot TrimCheck.
https://github.com/CyberShadow/trimcheck
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Excellent! Thanks!
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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06-21-2019, 12:11 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,912
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Thanks for your answer Rednroll!
I had to wait a couple of days my mind is slow to comprehend sometines...
Grinder
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